The Blue Nebula Cantina

Ah! Speaking of row, row, row your boat...... Since you are a Star Trek fan like me, do you remember this campfire scene??

Surely! How'd ya think I knew row row row your boat was a campfire song?

Do you smell something?

My nose is so stuffed so no!! But I think something is burning!

That row, row your boat scene was so great. I LOVED Star Trek V even though most people hated it.

I think the marshmallows are burning though.....

I loved IV better.

Sniffing I think the roof is on fire!

*Grabs a marshmallow and sings* I'm dipping mine in chocolate. There's extra chocolate dip if anyone wants some.

Ooo dipping chocolate! Yum. Hot chocolate with that?

I didn't realize this place turned into a dessert bar! lol

I would add a small amount of peanut butter to that chocolate. Give it a little flavor.

Gorp Balls Recipe:

--cup of dry plain oatmeal
--creamy peanut butter
--honey
--Hershey's chocolate bar (or Dark Chocolate)
--cinnamon
--cocoa powder
--shaved coconut
--toothpicks
--wax paper

Mix the dry oatmeal with the peanut butter and honey to taste until it gets "packy" like a thick spackling (it takes a fair bit of mixing). Shape it into balls about the size of ping pong balls, spear with tooth picks and set aside.

Melt chocolate in the microwave with peanut butter (it makes it melt faster and smoother), mixing in a bit of cinnamon. Prepare wax paper with a teaspoon of cocoa per ball on the wax paper, then roll the balls in the chocolate, and over the coconut shavings, then set aside on the cocoa powder to cool and dry.

Enjoy. Just don't ask where that recipe came from.

Hot chocolate is good but it's warm today so let's make that chocolate milk instead.

Sounds great Micheal! *steals one*

*steals a couple* nom nom

Got any bottle rockets?

No. I stayed in my room the whole day. I don't wish to use any of the $360 worth of fireworks I purchased. I hate holidays.

Well the good news is it's almost over and then tomorrow it will be back to a regular day.

I guess we'll dust this place off and see which of the regulars returns...

Hey, Fern46, continuing that convo...(I don't know how to tag you...? lol)

"I went looking for God down a road similar to yours and then had to simply laugh when I came to see the truth that the proof is everywhere. It is in the most complex and the simplest of forms. My tendency to dive deep served my need to see the big picture. Then I looked between the two poles and found the answer was the same."

Yes, exactly, the fractal nature of the universe. The from many, one, and from one, many idea. Fractals are self-same regardless of the level of magnification. I want nothing less than mathematical proof that I can point to and say, "Here! Here is the absolute proof of God's existence, and thereby extension, that there is indeed something that happens after death!"

Proof that "heaven" isn't just the delusion of a dying brain spinning out one last fantasy. Proof that anything happens other than just a cessation of not only being, but of time as well. (I don't want much, do I...?)

"My husband doesn't need the minutiae because he can simply know and trust. I lack that. I had to prove it and see it and know it from experience. Both paths are worthy. Mine was more laborious and perhaps ended up with a depth of understanding that his does not have, but he continuously held a faith I could not hold myself for a long time. What is better? Neither. Both. "

And yet, you both wound up at the same destination. I take your path every time because I am the ultimate doubting Thomas; it's as involuntary for me as breathing, and I wish it was not. It is a low-power constant fight-or-flight mode in the background of everything, and DNA is the latest fold (because of genetic memory and the collective human subconsciousness, et cetera) in my quest for proof that there is a soul and that it is immortal and not delusory.

"Learning not to scratch that itch is a journey in wisdom. Learning to live and appreciate the moment fully without needing to break it down is difficult, but the fruits are worthy of the effort. I'm still working on this. My brain always pulls me to 'know' more, but then I am reminded of the fool card of the Tarot. There is no more to see. If God is fractal, the now is complete with all I need to know. "

Omg, yes. I've scratched it so long that it is bloody. I don't know how, anymore, and there is no one left around me to teach me by example irl. I've gone so long without healthy social interaction that I've completely retrogressed and in some ways, do not function well as an adult because I never had those experiences to learn from. And now, I find that I recoil from the idea of even wanting to try them because I already know how it ends based on a pattern so repetitive I could set my watch to it.

Scientists already believe that we live in a holographic reality based on research done by Karl Lashley in the 1920s on rat brains, and that of Karl Pribram and David Bohm (of the DeBroglie-Bohm Cosmology Model). We are living within a simulation. God is therefore attempting to find something. I want to survive the simulation for whatever comes after. lol That is the core of it, really, I think for all of us.

Sorry, hoping you'll see this in here...lol If not, someone else please tag Fern?

When I’m manic I go looking for goddess and find her in the trees

The things where I used to find a connection on a spiritual level no longer satisfy, and nothing new found so far does it.

Oh I am sorry about that. That’s a real loss. Lately I’ve been missing the north woods. How it smells in the fall, the trees as they drop their leaves and bare all to winters cold. I miss the birch trees the most. Walking though the forests. A canoe ride on the smooth glassy water. The loons calling as they head south. That’s where I had the most connections to the spiritual. I haven’t been north for years.

[QUOTE=Michael2Wolves;6936220] "Learning not to scratch that itch is a journey in wisdom. Learning to live and appreciate the moment fully without needing to break it down is difficult, but the fruits are worthy of the effort. I'm still working on this. My brain always pulls me to 'know' more, but then I am reminded of the fool card of the Tarot. There is no more to see. If God is fractal, the now is complete with all I need to know. "

@Michael2Wolves,
I am new here to this forum, and I read your Ghost in the Machine. I also stumbled here to this corner/lounge of the forum. I would like to order an extra large drink of 42, with ample amounts of Life, the Universe, and Everything.

I sort of feel like the young kid (despite being 48) that wants to hang out with the cool big kids. While my life has not led me to be able to be as well read and educated in the topics you discuss, they resonate loudly with my soul. I also do not have ample amounts of time online to dive as deep into some of the discussions as I would like, but I will participate as I can. I ponder, sometimes obsessively, larger questions that arise from an aching in my soul. While my knowledge of physics and theology are not as in-depth as I would like, I thoroughly enjoyed the book When Science Meets Religion: Enemies, Strangers, or Partners? by Ian G. Barbour. Perhaps you would find it an enjoyable, fulfilling, or at least intriguing and thought provoking read. Much of it was entirely over my head, but I grasped what I could. Where science and math, and our understanding of the universe, lead us to a point of what appears to be random chance, or at least our capability of understanding it to the point that our minds can grasp, there is room for accepting "something" greater in purpose and/or planning in the universe that is beyond our ability to discover. Perhaps it is nothing more than learning modesty. Our ability, or inability, to comprehend and explain the larger universe, it's complexities, and the "purpose" can trigger the scientific mind to go down the rabbit hole.

I believe that we can nurture this inner inquisitive, despite obsessive, part of ourselves, but still try to remain somewhat engaged in the world around us despite that we can feel so entirely separated from it at times. I hope you do not totally give up on that potential.

Please pardon any typos or lack in depth of thought or expression I may have. You are obliviously someone who pays attention to details and is articulate and eloquent in your expressions.

Wishing you well. Don't panic, and don't forget your towel!!!!

@Nammu,
I live in what some consider the north woods, though not as far north as I would like. While my body is somewhat trapped by the constraints of time and emotional energy to physically immerse myself in nature to replenish my soul, I frequently go there in my mind attempting reconnection and escape. If your life doesn't lead you to the ability to be in those locations physically, try permitting yourself the mental ability to hear the loons, feel the breeze, and transfer yourself to the solitude and tranquility that brings.
Don't panic, and don't forget your towel!!!

Thanks struggling mama.

Oh, goodness, how to begin...

What people, I think, fail to truly understand is that I am truly on the fringe. I have no friends in real life. Nothing. No one. Three family members that I talk to, one of whom is my mother. That's it. I have so little to say any more that I sit there at a table of people I have nothing in common with and feel nothing. The more I look at them, the more visceral the feeling becomes. I have nothing in common with my so-called friends. We don't share the same hobbies, and our conversations are as different as night and day. Wanna know what we have in common? Pot. That's it. lmao Smh...

Otherwise, I just don't ever go anywhere. For what purpose? I'm trapped, and I have no money, no career, no identity. For all any of you all know, you could be talking with someone who is a complete fiction. All you have before you is digital consistency, and only what I post will live on beyond me, immortal via the internet. More and more, I feel less and less connection, or even desire to connect, and therein lies the danger, because once the desire to connect goes, it's too late. I only wonder how close I am to the truth of what reality really is; my deepest regret is knowing I will never know.

As for the ghost in the machine post...is this not me? My thoughts and neurosis seem so far outside of the median that I see things differently, and as a result, don't really relate to anyone anymore. Who sits down and puzzles out the nature of reality to such a degree that they begin to see and judge everything based on probabilities? I may not juggle numbers a la Rainman, but I still sense it. I only have to be right once--the problem is, I've been right many times. Not only am I beginning to legit wonder if I'm just trapped in some kind of Groundhog's Day lifetime, but that it is tailored specifically to maximize discomfort. To know ahead of time that I will lose everything in the end, that we all do as we fall away from clinging to the ceiling one by one into whatever lays below, is really rather horrifying to me on a visceral level I cannot describe, and to hear others blithely talk about death as though it's nothing makes me look at them as though they're nuts. How do you simply ignore that? That's like walking on a train trestle, hearing the train behind you, and then putting on your headphones so you can ignore it better.

But when I point this out, I get strange looks. Even in a crowd, I am alone because I think of weird shtako like this all the time, I just don't bother to verbalize it. Weird insights and contrasts. All valid. Just...off the wall. It happens faster and faster. thirty seconds and I have an entire scenario worked out because of how quickly my obsessive nature works.

I will check out the book you mentioned. I usually peruse wikipedia. The Sapir-Whorf entry is a great start with a lot of hyperlinks...lol

Dear @Michael2Wolves,

I appreciate your response. I truly understand that you feel totally alone and disconnected from your physical world. Don't panic, and don't forget your towel, right? Try not to have obsessive thoughts about your obsessive thoughts, that rollercoaster is a ride with no straps. That is a rabbit hole we should all try to avoid.

You have three family members whom you still have contact with. Perhaps those connections do not feel deep, but the fact that you can sit with your mother, in the presence of motherly love is a bonus many do not have. Let yourself feel that love if it is there. I left my family when I was 18 with a duffle bag. I had to escape the psychotic dysfunction. One of my chronic voids is the fact that I never had any genuine love, or protection, given to me by my parents. I am in a relationship with a broken toxic person, and it is emotionally killing me, but I too have no money, or at least not enough, to provide me my own life. I also have NO family I can rely on for support emotionally or otherwise. I have two children. My daughter was manipulated by my narcissistic ex to go to court against me and I lost custody of my son for two years. She is 13 years older than my son, and has a different father. She is back in my life now. I had my son back for 5 years, but my son, now 15, left to live with his father 10 month ago because he can do what he wants without boundaries or consequence. So, from a distance, I am watching him flunk out of school, powerless to do anything. I have no family and no friends, except one whom I talk to on the phone on occasion, and we essentially tell each other to KEEP F#*%*NG GOING...that is it.

I am in no way trying to play one of those games where someone tells you, "oh yeah, you think you have it bad...". I am only trying to show you that many of us are experiencing the void. On that note: Have you ever tried going long periods without smoking pot? I say this because I too have smoked pot over the years as an attempt to socially fit in, but it never really helped me and actually sent me into a state of loneliness and despair. My ex liked to smoke with me because he thought it helped us "relax and connect". I would take a few hits, and then, I would look up from the table at him and my mind and heart would scream at me, "What the F#%& are you doing with this selfish, self-centered, emotionally inept zombie...run....run...run". So, because I was unable to run, I would smoke more, and more, and more, in hopes that I could shut down the glaringly obvious fact that I was alone and stuck. Smoking would heighten my propensity to overanalyze everything, it would heighten my emptiness and lack of connection, it would bring my deepest thoughts of life, the universe, and everything into full blossom. It would send my soul on the cosmic journey of over analyzing my current state of affairs, the paths that got me there, the injustices and cruelty of the world, the lack of depth and meaning that my life, all life, seemed to have. While those thoughts and feelings were, and still are, VERY real, smoking heightened them, yet crippled my emotional and intellectual ability to keep them rationalized and in check. I would highly recommend you try not to smoke pot, despite that it is one of things that helps you feel a sense of connection, at least on a superficial level. I like to think of myself more as a warrior these days. Facing the world stone cold sober, despite all the pain of the harsh realities and emptiness that it provides. I face the world sober and unclouded, clear headed and ready to receive the answers and connections when they present themselves. Please give sobriety a try, it is essential. I could post links to the scientific studies that show that marijuana has negative effects on those with a propensity of obsessiveness and on and on, but I am advising it only because, from experience, I know it does not help us no matter how much we wish it would. “The more I look at them, the more visceral the feeling becomes.” Trust me when I say, pot accentuates this, even when you are “sober” at the time. It has a cumulative affect that takes time to subside. Being someone who still questions “God”, I will pray for you that you can do this as I trust that is would be a good step for you.

On the thought of how an online existence is such a state of “non-reality”, that it only feeds your sense of lack of connection. I get it, but, while it feels completely unreal, we are living, breathing humans, with blood pumping through our veins. You have expressed thoughts and feelings that inspire others to reach out and “connect”. Like myself, Fern46, Nammu, and others. We are real people. Your words resonated with us in some way, and, with our hearts, minds, and hands, we have reached out to you. Is that not real? Yes, like I said in a previous post in a world with 7.8 billion people, it is a shame so many are looking into online existences in attempts to find connection, but in that, you are not alone. We are all here. We filter through the masses in hopes to find those few meaningful connections. Perhaps we find them, perhaps we don’t. Perhaps they are only momentary, like a fleeting season, flower, or memory, but they are real. Everyone who has responded to you has done so because it was worth their time to reach out to your virtual hand of loneliness. As words intertwine online, connections can be forged despite the fact that it is in a place of waves of space and 0’s and 1’s. I for one find comfort in a feeling of connection, even if it is just one post, on one day. If another’s words resonate with me, it lets me feel hope that I am not alone. Perhaps it may seem futile and worthless to you, but I have to hang onto the shreds that keep the fabric of hope alive.
I do hope you read the book I recommended. If you like math, then perhaps you will be able to comprehend all the mathematical equations the author inserts into the book.

On the note of probabilities…. Well, when I was in graduate school (I didn’t finish), I did a seminar based on an article called, “The Insignificance of Statistical Significance Testing”. An interesting article if you ever have the chance to read it. Essentially, you can say whatever you like using probability testing if you design your study right. It is in the standard deviation of error that the truth lies. If you expand, or contract the scope of the numbers in any test, you can find the probabilities you would like to make any statement, but if you watch the standard error, you can see that it may be all B#!! S&#t. Do not let your mind rage in the machine of mathematical probabilities when our human minds can only grasp the mathematical dimensions within our human like capabilities and within our own minuscule fragment of our portion of the universe. The book I recommended opens the doorway to accepting our human limitations and capabilities to answering the questions of life, the universe, and everything.

What I hope you get from my post here: You are not alone despite that you feel totally alone. You are capable of feeding one part of you, while not letting it completely engulf you thus limiting your ability to find connections in the “real” world. You should definitely give sobriety a try. Go outside, walk, look around you. Comfort the part of yourself that feels so huge yet destructive, let it have a place, but also try to compartmentalize it so it doesn’t consume you. Take advantage of any of the connections you have available to you, even if they seem trite at the time; those people, especially your family, are there, which is better than not. Your words resonated with me and I reached out. There is much depth and feeling to your writing, but I can also feel your spiraling through time. Let those who reach out to you, whether it be once, or multiple times, join virtual hands with you, share in a moment, slow the spiraling, and help you walk in a straight line, even if it is just for a moment. Sometimes a moment is all we have.

Be well, don’t panic, and don’t forget your towel.

Please pardon my typos or ramblings, it is a fleeting draft of random thoughts like a fleeting moment in time….

So sorry for the delay. I took a needed break, but then I remembered to stop by. I'm glad I did. If you ever want to tag me, just put an @ sign in front of my screen name.

I think we have all the proof we need. It is subtle and in our face. It haunts us and laughs at us openly. Why run further? I'm learning to stare back at it. I can only do it in increments. It is very powerful, but the energy is the same every time.

The ultimate doubting Thomas, yes! I'm the female equivalent of that. The collective human subconscious... Well I've felt that force take over my faculties on more than one occasion. It is unnerving. The archetypes dominiate when they want to. I'll have to tell you what my special blend of psychosis is like sometime.

There are people out there to connect with. Just hold faith and let go of your ideas of what it needs to look like. Even an infant can connect in a meaningful way... Fractal and all. Hope is not lost, ok?

@Michael2Wolves thanks for another post. I'll stop by when I can ok? Be well.

Okay, SM first...

My mother is the only one in geographic proximity to me. The other cousins I have blocked on Facebook and for good cause. I have no extended family anymore as far as I am concerned--I haven't spoken to them in years, so there is no love lost there. They are dead to me. My uncle lives 1000 miles away, and my other cousin 1500. There is literally nobody else. And none of those three are in any position to help me. No job, no education, no degree, no resume, no history, no assets. The ephemeral and impermanent nature of online friendships is at once both its strength and its Achilles heel, and that is why I say that it's rapidly becoming insufficient to give me reason to reach out. It's simply not enough, and my family are not people I want to reach out to. There simply is no one else who are not felons, and I'm not interested. Tired of dealing with prison-house bullshtako because that's all they want to talk about. You are stronger than I because if our roles were reversed, I simply would have dropped everything and walked away and not said another word to anyone I was not legally compelled to do so. That I even have such an ability to simply shut off is bad enough; that I no longer have the tolerance and patience for dealing with the frivolities of life that my so-called friends bring into it makes it worse.

I realize how detached and callous this sounds. The only reason I have not become more self-destructive, at the same time, is because of those same ephemeral online connections. But, like sand through the hourglass, I can feel that connection fading as well, it's just a matter of time before that no longer is enough. And then, I don't know what happens.

What you describe is about right on--altering my state of consciousness allows me to study my life in a coldly clinical fashion. The problem is, while pot may accentuate this, I learned to do this trick long before pot ever came along, so I do it as naturally as breathing. High or not, I am always aware, or self-aware. Pot merely removes the emotional component of it to a large degree so that I can think unfettered. lmao Yeah, yeah, yeah, "that's just the delusional thinking of the pot," except it isn't because I've made leaps of logic I shouldn't have been able to with the information I have in my conscious mind. I seek answers by any means necessary; that one's self is consumed in the process is of zero consequence to me most days.

I went twenty years without smoking. Made lots of friends. None of whom I would have anything to do with now that I am out of prison. Four or so years of freedom and sobriety was enough to show me that it ain't going to ever get better, so why not? My fatalism has become terminal. That is why I say, I will have the answers to my questions, one way or another simply because I refuse to accept a life in which there are unknowns. Essentially, since I cannot have it in a way that is acceptable to me, then I reject the entirety of it, and will live accordingly because why should I care? In the grand scheme of things, nothing matters. That's why I say, no thanks, not interested. I have not found anything in my forty years of existence that has yet convinced me to change this mind set. If information exists within the set, that information can be known. You can't have a defined mathematical set without all variable defined.

I will check out that book you recommended. The problem, however, is that the part of me that simply does not care anymore is stronger than the part that does, and these protestations are nothing but the dying gasps of wounded prey in the jaws of the wolf. That is simply how I feel about it, and all the wishing in the world is not going to miraculously start generating probabilities where none exist because there is no cascade chain. It has to be grown from what pre-exists, from probabilities that were already present, and what pre-exists is dying and toxic, I think. One only has to look at this place to see that. This is not what I envisioned for the Blue Nebula Cantina, but like everything that the wolf touches, it becomes twisted and drawn to itself. This is not supposed to be a place for me to come and dump my mess, and yet, despite me not wanting it to be, I have done so through subtle and slow posting to my public chagrin.

lmao This is why I have no problem hating it, hating him, because it's such a selfish, self-conceited arrogant *** that I just want to carve it right out of my skull. I even debated buying Nd magnets and attempting to build something to play with the EM fields in my head. You have no idea how deep that loathing runs, or how deep the desire to use any means necessary to strike back.

And @fern46, the problem, I think, is that I can no longer look away from that "proof," that Pattern, that...Untempered Schism, if you will. There is definitely an energy there, Carl Jung was very close to the truth, I think.

Apologies to all because this is not what I had intended for this thread.

I try to follow a value stream. Sometimes it is valuable to me to see the source and work with it. Sometimes it is better to integrate myself into the experience in a more detached way. It depends on the variables. Experiencing both is healthy for the mind and the psyche.

Jung nailed it imo for a number of interesting subjects. I've only read portions of his work and I have to be careful because it can be a trigger for me. He missed the mark here and there and there is plenty of room to expand upon the framework he laid.

Let's get your thread back on track. What kind of vibe are we going for here?

This was supposed to be a hangout for people to have a forum version of the chat; however, because I tend to be thorough, I find that I want to lay everything out in excruciating detail which can be a bit much, so again, I apologize to the others.

Makes me wonder what role I play in the collective subconscious since I have a gift for envisioning the impossible.

One thing I have missed is having my friend Dave. I did a lot of time with him and we were so in sync that we would finish each other's thoughts half the time. It was more than that, though. We shared common interests, and I was never bored around him or felt apart. Yet, looking back at it now, it was a poisonous situation because I chose to engage with him in certain things that I now see are toxic--conversations and thinking patterns. I've never had that same rapport with anyone else since. Maybe that's a trauma reaction, I dunno. I know that I do not want the same things as he does, and so I haven't talked to him in five years, nor will I. The problem, I think, which comes to me as I write this is that I have no one around me with the same interests as I who has a personality that I do not find annoying or doesn't find me annoying. lol

@StrugglingMama is correct in that pot is not healthy, because I have no money for it, and I am at the point where escape is more valued than endurance because endurance requires stamina that I no longer feel I have.