[DechanDawa]

Thank you, Lunella. I agree that Freelee is creating a life that works for her. We can't just imitate other people's lives. I have done research and I am not even sure Freelee's diet is healthy, and since she has had an eating disorder...one might consider -- is this just another eating disorder?

I had a dog and although I loved my dog I wouldn't go as far as to say dogs love others more than themselves. It is sort of "kitchen cupboard love" meaning a dog will be loyal to the person who feeds them. lol. They do incredible things but mostly it is instinct. They are pack animals so they will protect people they consider to be members of their pack.

Dogs are great but they can't take the place of human love and relationships.

Freelee is just too skinny. She lost her period when she first went on this diet and her explanation is that it was just her body balancing. Paleez! Loss of period is the first sign a woman is not getting enough calories. i.e. starvation.

Still, watching videos and reading stuff stimulates our imaginations, so Lunella and everyone, have fun!

[Strive4health]

The reason why I dislike this diet, along with many other "diets" is they lack the cohesiveness and balance that humans need to physiologically be healthy, and to psychologically be healthy.

There is no balance with a lot of those diets. I am a firm believer in having good nutrition and to eat a wide variety of foods. I've had people try to impose vegetarianism on me, paleo, low carb, etc. and all they've done was make me miserable and cranky, or fat. One should be able to live life eating healthy foods, and have a piece of cake at a birthday party or go out to a special dinner with your SO without obsessing about the number of bananas in the diet.

[DechanDawa]

Freelee the banana girl made a youtube video this week entitled "Why I Hate Children" basically telling everyone not to bring kids into this messed up world. She had a ton of responses from young girls who acted like sheep followers. Grrrr! I made some comments and Freelee blocked me!!! This proves that these extreme diet people are not balanced psychologically. They are guilty of orthodrexia (did I spell that right?) and it bleeds into every area of their lives. Freelee and Durianrider have gone too far with their fascist youtube videos.

Strive4health, you are so right. Balance is key. We can individualize our diets as we wish, to maybe have less unhealthy fats, and add more fruits and vegetables. But extremes are unhealthy. Thanks for reminding me of this, Strive4health!

AVOID ANYTHING WITH CULT MENTALITY!

[DechanDawa]

Freelee is pushing 35 and needs to change her banana girl title. She isn't a girl any more although she acts like an unruly, rebellious 15 year old.

Young women on Psych Central...please don't extreme diet!!! Guard you health, physical and psychological. And beware of orthorexia!

[DechanDawa]

Good Luck in exercising and eating healthfully!

[venusss]

Honestly, all the restrictive vegans seem so angry and illogical (regular vegan is restrictive enough, but doable if you have the resouces and time to prepare your foods... if you add "raw" and "high carb/low fat" rules to it, you are left with very little to eat). They just rant and rant and rant away.

Freelee and other vegan had video on Ariana Grande eating NON-VEGAN donut and their throw a fit over it as if Ariana Grande opened a concentraiton camp.

[-jimi-]

I'd get a headache from all the sugar in her diet.

[ScientiaOmnisEst]

Hi Dechwan, hope your doing well.

If you're really considering veganism, how deep do you plan to go, out of curiosity? I basically went back to me old habits after remaining a basic dietary vegan, then started reading again.

Some have different views too on other more unsure things like honey or bivalves. From my own reading, I tend to think ethical honey's fine, as are bivalves since they don't have anything that resembles sentience. Similarly I can't be bothered with trace warnings or possible small parts of the processing. Likewise, I have no problem with second-hand animal clothing. But that's me. I'm broke and lazy and only care a little.

In fact, I just watched someone's description of what vegans "see" when they see animals products, how unbearable it is, and the comment section full of people talking about crying in the meat section of the store, or over someone eating fish, how they, with their understanding of where it comes from, see the meat department with the same horror they would look on a mass human slaughter. Something I can't do; is that hypersensitivity worth it? Is it really such "hypocrisy" to care more for humans than random nonhuman animals? We actually know what human feelings are like, so of course we empathize more. There's no need to start crying over a piece of fried chicken - the intellectual reasoning is enough for me. Besides, fine, maybe I am a hypocrite; I would prefer not to hurt anyone if I don't have to, but I'm much more likely to cry over upsetting a human than eating meat. And I worry there's something bad about that.

If you do a little reading, there are animal products in basically everything. Avoiding it is a real privilege to the point where I think some levels of avoidance (especially with animal-chemically-derived additives) involving trace amounts of byproducts or byproducts - stuff that would need to be replaced if the slaughter industry (not trying to be inflammatory...I'm just bad at thinking of terms right now) decreased.

I might try again, though.

Just curious!

[DechanDawa]

Originally Posted by ScientiaOmnisEst

Hi Dechwan, hope your doing well.




If you're really considering veganism, how deep do you plan to go, out of curiosity? I basically went back to me old habits after remaining a basic dietary vegan, then started reading again.

Some have different views too on other more unsure things like honey or bivalves. From my own reading, I tend to think ethical honey's fine, as are bivalves since they don't have anything that resembles sentience. Similarly I can't be bothered with trace warnings or possible small parts of the processing. Likewise, I have no problem with second-hand animal clothing. But that's me. I'm broke and lazy and only care a little.

I went Ayurvedic (mostly) vegan last summer. I loved it. I felt good about it philosophically and the food was really good. I learned how to make kitchari. Then my hair started to fall out!!! I have long hair and I it isn't super thick so it falling out was nasty. I have since found out other people have gone through this, but it didn't strike me as healthy. My doctor said my body was probably already stressed from depression and anxiety, and going vegan stressed it more. It just doesn't work for me. Now I am eating eggs and fish but no cheese or milk. I also eat organic chicken and turkey. That's just how it is. We all accrue karma. Some vegans are pretty nasty on YouTube so what kind of karma are they creating?

It's been over six months and I still have hair loss. My doctor says my hair will continue to look thin while it grows back in. I have a lot of short baby hairs so I have that "chia pet" look with a sort of fuzzy hair halo. I still kept my hair long. I wear it mostly in a braid or braids to protect it while it grows back in.

So I would say when really stressed with trying to manage mental health issues be careful with changes in diet. Also, I had an extremely bad reaction to an antidepressant I was on for two weeks in the summer and my doctor said that also could have caused hair loss. Before all this I had healthy long hair with no extreme fall-out.

And Freelee is trying to convince people that losing her period for 9 months is healthy and some kind of cleanse? OMG, and girls actually believe her BS!!!


In fact, I just watched someone's description of what vegans "see" when they see animals products, how unbearable it is, and the comment section full of people talking about crying in the meat section of the store, or over someone eating fish, how they, with their understanding of where it comes from, see the meat department with the same horror they would look on a mass human slaughter. Something I can't do; is that hypersensitivity worth it? Is it really such "hypocrisy" to care more for humans than random nonhuman animals? We actually know what human feelings are like, so of course we empathize more. There's no need to start crying over a piece of fried chicken - the intellectual reasoning is enough for me. Besides, fine, maybe I am a hypocrite; I would prefer not to hurt anyone if I don't have to, but I'm much more likely to cry over upsetting a human than eating meat. And I worry there's something bad about that.

If you do a little reading, there are animal products in basically everything. Avoiding it is a real privilege to the point where I think some levels of avoidance (especially with animal-chemically-derived additives) involving trace amounts of byproducts or byproducts - stuff that would need to be replaced if the slaughter industry (not trying to be inflammatory...I'm just bad at thinking of terms right now) decreased.

I might try again, though.

Just curious!

[DechanDawa]

Originally Posted by DechanDawa

I wrote you a long reply and it didn't post for some reason.

[DechanDawa]

Hi Scientia! I wrote you a long reply and for some reason couldn't get it to post. In a nutshell...I went vegan this past summer and my hair started to fall out really badly. I think maybe because my body was already stressed from a bad reaction to an SSRI which I got off of within two weeks, and just generally being depressed and anxious. Now my hair is growing back and I have what is called the chia pet effect. which is a halo of fuzzy hair. It's kind of weird because I have long hair. It got super thin.

Now I eat fish, eggs, chicken and turkey...but try to stay away from all other animal flesh.No dairy. About the bivalves, I never heard that distinction, but I love mussels, and now that I am not vegan I will eat mussels.

I know it creates bad karma eating animal flesh. I was Ayurvedic vegan and loved it, but I am just not about to let my health fail when I already seem in some kind of fragile state.

And judging from the nastiness of some YouTube vegans...like what is up with that??? But it has always been so in the vegetarian world. I have gone vegetarian or vegan several times in my life and every time I end up not healthy. It is sad because philosophically I do love it. I probably shouldn't eat mussels.

[DechanDawa]

Scientia: Okay...confusing but my first post is embedded in the middle of your post.

About nasty vegans. I have to say I am old enough to have gone through many vegan and vegetarian phases. There are always nasty vegan people who act morally superior about their choices. I knew a guy who was a 100% raw fruitarian, and so was his dog, although the dog looked like it was starving. Then this guy started to drink his own pee in the morning, which is some kind of tradition from India, I think. This guy was a relative of my then husband. I told my ex-husband that I just couldn't stand this guy using my kitchen glasses to hold the pee he drank. Haha. It makes me laugh even now because I remember when I was complaining to my ex-husband back then I remember neither of us could stop laughing about the fruitarian but the point is this guy could be very nasty. When his dog died he had the dog's ear cut off and he wore the dried ear on a string around his neck. If people asked him about it (which of course they did) he would get very defensive and nasty. Oh well, that is just a few vegan stories I remember.

[DechanDawa]

It seems like a lot of people with eating disorders have found relief on the vegan diet. I have to say if the vegan path helps people with anorexia and bulimia, then it is truly a good thing. Do you agree? Or - do you think this is just orthorexia and eventually people will be driven back to anorexia or bulimia? If it worked long-term it would be great. I mean...a cure for anorexia? It (raw vegan) is extreme, but not as extreme as eating disorders.

I ate 100% raw for a month and I felt great but could absolutely not go longer than a month. So I am inclined to think people with eating disorders who go raw vegan are still eating disordered. There is a woman in my town who has written a couple of books on raw veganism and has eaten 100% raw vegan for a decade. I am sorry to report she looks eating disordered...very skinny, terrible complexion, and kind of sunk eyes.

[-jimi-]

Orthorexia can be bad enough. I have known a few, and the way they scrutinize every part of their diet you can always come up with something bad about all types of foods. Some cut out almost everything, and that is a scary concept because we need variety to get all nutrients. Perfectionism can sure be a monster.

Have a friend who is not vegan but a mostly vegan mostly raw food eater. She isn't afraid of gaining weight, still she as skinny as can be. And she gets skinnier every time I see her. Not giving a dang what one eats is bad but it is also bad being on the other end caring too much. Balance... one of life's hardest lessons.

[ScientiaOmnisEst]

Dechwan: I suppose my awareness fades in and out of how harmful animal products are. I'll be consumed with guilt one day and give no f#cks the next. What I tell myself is that, ultimately, I shouldn't, and don't want to participate in a harmful, cruel industry. But at the same time...I have very limited empathy for random animals. Pets are one thing, but I find it quite difficult to spare thoughts for a cow or chicken. Yet I feel like I should feel more strongly; I should be looking at cooked animal flesh with tearful disgust, I should be repulsed by the idea of eating things made with animal excretions, etc.

I ate more or less vegan for about two weeks then gave in to need for sweets, then went completely off the rails eating whatever, no cares given. One of these days I'll detox myself from sugar. Someday. But maybe I should try again. I just want to be a good person.

[DechanDawa]

Originally Posted by ScientiaOmnisEst

Dechwan: I suppose my awareness fades in and out of how harmful animal products are. I'll be consumed with guilt one day and give no f#cks the next. What I tell myself is that, ultimately, I shouldn't, and don't want to participate in a harmful, cruel industry. But at the same time...I have very limited empathy for random animals. Pets are one thing, but I find it quite difficult to spare thoughts for a cow or chicken. Yet I feel like I should feel more strongly; I should be looking at cooked animal flesh with tearful disgust, I should be repulsed by the idea of eating things made with animal excretions, etc.

I ate more or less vegan for about two weeks then gave in to need for sweets, then went completely off the rails eating whatever, no cares given. One of these days I'll detox myself from sugar. Someday. But maybe I should try again. I just want to be a good person.

I think you made some good points. I am also doing my best but I am battling a lot of issues. I buy eggs from cage free chickens (mostly) but they are expensive, and supposedly the chickens are running around all happy...but who knows?....they could be in big holding pens. I don't buy farm-raised fish, but one wonders about the pollutants in wild caught fish. No wonder people end up orthorexic! I solve the problem by buying pretty much the same stuff...eggs, oatmeal, almond milk, kale, spinach, fruit, chicken and fish, herbal teas. I don't like the idea of large animals being slaughtered so I am staying away from red meat and pork. I am not happy with the dairy industry so I use almond milk and pretty much stay away from dairy. For now that's about all I can manage. Really and truly, that's all. So we are good people because at least we have the intention of wanting to be better...and according to the Buddhists...good intentions to start out...even if we can't follow through...are still very powerful agents of good karma. Namaste!

[ScientiaOmnisEst]

Originally Posted by DechanDawa

I think you made some good points. I am also doing my best but I am battling a lot of issues. I buy eggs from cage free chickens (mostly) but they are expensive, and supposedly the chickens are running around all happy...but who knows?....they could be in big holding pens. I don't buy farm-raised fish, but one wonders about the pollutants in wild caught fish. No wonder people end up orthorexic! I solve the problem by buying pretty much the same stuff...eggs, oatmeal, almond milk, kale, spinach, fruit, chicken and fish, herbal teas. I don't like the idea of large animals being slaughtered so I am staying away from red meat and pork. I am not happy with the dairy industry so I use almond milk and pretty much stay away from dairy. For now that's about all I can manage. Really and truly, that's all. So we are good people because at least we have the intention of wanting to be better...and according to the Buddhists...good intentions to start out...even if we can't follow through...are still very powerful agents of good karma. Namaste!

I needed to read this. If I could stop eating junk I wouldn't have to worry about ingesting animal products too much. As I think about the issue...it makes me sad in an "I'm doing a bad thing" kind of way (a feeling I can't quite keep in the forefront. Habit is strong), rather than an actual empathetic way.

Actually empathizing with animals the way one empathizes with humans just doesn't make sense to me. It largely stays on an intellectual - maybe because I'm not doing the slaughtering, just consuming the results of someone's work. You asked about annoying vegans - one thing that pisses me off is when vegans call omnivores killers, murderers, or say "that animal died for you". The only thing a person is responsible for when they eat...anything really, is choosing to eat that item and partake of the industry that processed it. Nothing more.

Guess I'm rambling since I was just reading about vitamin D (most forms are derived from sheep's wool, therefore not vegan) and wondering about secondhand animal products - used wool, leather, etc. My personal conscience has no problem with it; yes, the items have a sordid origin, and it's quite sad, but there's no sense in wasting perfectly good shoes, wallets, sweaters, coats etc simply because of sentimental principles. If the industry shut down tomorrow those secondhand items would still be out there, might as well use them. The vast majority of others don't agree...

I just want to the right thing while I'm alive.

Namaste indeed!

[DechanDawa]

Originally Posted by ScientiaOmnisEst

I needed to read this. If I could stop eating junk I wouldn't have to worry about ingesting animal products too much. As I think about the issue...it makes me sad in an "I'm doing a bad thing" kind of way (a feeling I can't quite keep in the forefront. Habit is strong), rather than an actual empathetic way.

Actually empathizing with animals the way one empathizes with humans just doesn't make sense to me. It largely stays on an intellectual - maybe because I'm not doing the slaughtering, just consuming the results of someone's work. You asked about annoying vegans - one thing that pisses me off is when vegans call omnivores killers, murderers, or say "that animal died for you". The only thing a person is responsible for when they eat...anything really, is choosing to eat that item and partake of the industry that processed it. Nothing more.

Guess I'm rambling since I was just reading about vitamin D (most forms are derived from sheep's wool, therefore not vegan) and wondering about secondhand animal products - used wool, leather, etc. My personal conscience has no problem with it; yes, the items have a sordid origin, and it's quite sad, but there's no sense in wasting perfectly good shoes, wallets, sweaters, coats etc simply because of sentimental principles. If the industry shut down tomorrow those secondhand items would still be out there, might as well use them. The vast majority of others don't agree...

I just want to the right thing while I'm alive.

Namaste indeed!

Karma is extremely complicated. The Tibetan Buddhists say that maybe killing an animal is good karma because maybe that animal will return as a sentient being! But then, the Tibetan Buddhists eat meat. What the heck, they were raised where they had no choice. My Tibetan teacher was from Eastern Tibet, close to Mongolia, and as a child his village was almost always on the verge of starvation. The terrain was such that they couldn't grow anything. So they survived on Yak everything...milk, meat etc. Well, my teacher is the sweetest, bravest, smartest soul who lost his mother when he was a tiny boy. He is very funny and we joked and laughed all the time. He went back to Chinese Tibet where he built a school for orphans. I can't think of anyone with better karma. There was a big earthquake in his region and some reporters managed to get to the area. They were interviewing the monks who were burying the dead. On the radio I heard my teacher's voice. Even though he was the head honcho in the area he was out there digging graves with everyone else. When I heard his voice on the radio (BBC) I cried. He is young, late 30's, but he has taken on responsibility for hundreds of children. And yes, he also eats meat.

I agree that the radical vegans are irritating as hell. Freelee even banned me from commenting on her videos for a time because I called her out on her aggression. Now I don't watch her.

To get technical, harvesting fruit probably kills insect life so is that okay? The Indian Jains don't kill insects and when a building is being constructed the Jains will go to the construction site and sift through the soil to remove all the earth worms. Also, is all that fruit farming leading to deforestation? Freelee is not above the effects of karma. She is...omg...just absurd.

I am probably the wrong person to be talking to about the philosophy behind all of this. I studied religions for my master's degree. The point is...there is just a lot of evil and wrong-doing...and there is individual karma and collective karma. And there is a lot wrong with religions, too....however...within every system there are good people.

Supposedly the Buddha said to his disciples, "Karma is so hard to understand you should not even try to theorize. Can you see all the leaves on all of the trees in the forest from where you are sitting? No? Well, that is how it is with karma. You can't see it all until you are enlightened. Just do your best each and every day. Be a light onto yourself."

Double Namaste! I love your intellectual vigor!

[DechanDawa]

If anyone is interested in Ayurvedics which is the healing vegetarianism from India, check out Yogi Cameron on YouTube. I love Ayurvedics and follow it in every way except that I have to include some animal protein in my diet or else I get weak and my hair starts falling out. But in every way the Ayurvedic lifestyle rocks; it's thousands of years old.

Raw veganism is too extreme, I have decided. It isn't balanced.

[-jimi-]

I had to laugh at my Ayurvedic type. Mind and body combined I am equal amounts kapha, vata and pitta. LOL. Then it is said to follow diet day to day or follow the seasons, whatever that means... sigh.

Something that bothers me when I mention wanting both eating healthy and cheap is people suggesting chicken. Healthy people eat chicken all day long because... low fat yadda yadda. And they are totally full of stress hormones, how healthy is that? The most abused meat animal we have. Oh, then I'm told I can eat the organic chicken instead and then I remind there was the money aspect as well.

At that time they usually yell at me.

I like watching Freelee. She has good positive energy. I think she has a cute figure which doesn't look too slim to me. I could never do what she does and don't know enough about nutrition to say anything certain about the banana diet. I think she is a character on the Internet and will push the diet because that is her thing on there. I never felt like she pushed me personally.

[DechanDawa]

She has made some very rude videos.

[DechanDawa]

Originally Posted by -jimi-

I had to laugh at my Ayurvedic type. Mind and body combined I am equal amounts kapha, vata and pitta. LOL. Then it is said to follow diet day to day or follow the seasons, whatever that means... sigh.

Something that bothers me when I mention wanting both eating healthy and cheap is people suggesting chicken. Healthy people eat chicken all day long because... low fat yadda yadda. And they are totally full of stress hormones, how healthy is that? The most abused meat animal we have. Oh, then I'm told I can eat the organic chicken instead and then I remind there was the money aspect as well.

At that time they usually yell at me.

We all have all the doshas. There are tests to determine if there is an imbalance. Everyone has a dominant dosha. If yours did not get determined they usually ask you to retake the test. Then they can give you directions on how to correct any imbalance, although I would not trust online healing and instead I went to an Ayurvedic practitioner. I am physically Kapha, and mentally Vata. It is a science to balance both the physical and the mental if they are two different types. In my case, there would be two different healing plans and they would have to be constructed so that they work together.

I so hear you about the chicken!!! I wanted to buy organic chicken today but I just couldn't bring myself to spend the extra money so I didn't buy any meat, and instead bought a bottle of organic vanilla kefir.

[-jimi-]

My body is more kapha than my mind is, my mind is more vata than my body is. Both are about equally pitta. So when I calculate it i do not have a dominant dosha. I have taken both informal and more professional tests, and where there is a dominant dosha it is just very slight.

[-jimi-]

Just took an online one... got 20 vata 21 pitta and 19 kapha.

Not much to go on LOL.