[perpetuallysad]

My son is 9 and going into the 4th grade on Thurs. We've lived here in the same school district since he was 3. Anyway, we recently got a new superintendent who has systematically changed everything about our district. Any rule you can think of, she's modified it in some way or the other and I have yet to see a positive result from her changes. Last January she announced randomly that the kids would go to wearing uniforms for "safety", though there has literally never been a safety problem of any degree for any grade in the district, especially nothing related to clothing (I cannot even think of what clothes have to do with safety, to be honest). The parents were given surveys on two different occasions and overwhelmingly voted both times to not have uniforms. Well, the district found out if you have "uniforms" they are required to provide uniforms for free lunch eligible students so they changed it to a "dress code" that only allows for 2 color pants and 3 colors for shirts... ya, a dress code my foot. Any way, I am a person who sincerely thinks that uniforms are a waste of money and time. I also disagree that they help promote school spirit, community, etc. So I don't buy any of those arguments. Because of this dress code, there has been an uproar in my community. I live in MS, we are a poor state and over 80% of the kids in the district qualify for free lunch. (God, this is long, sorry.) Well, no matter what we, as parents, have tried to do, she has dug in and will not let go of the dress code thing. Very annoying, but I am trying to live with it.

Well, about 2 weeks ago I checked the district website for the school supply list and see a link for "school openings and closings", I check it and they have added 45 mins on to the school day for all of the grades. That puts the kids in school for 8 hours a day. That is too long. Eight hours at school and then, according to grade level, at least another hour to 3 hours for nightly homework. This is just insane. I called the district office to find out when and why they added this onto the day and the lady said "that's what the board voted". She would tell me nothing else. I called my son's principal and she says that they didn't even tell her that the days were going to be extended that she ran across it just like me on the website.

Also, we have a lot of things we are required to provide for "school supplies", and I KNOW they are not being used by the students. Here's the forth grade list:
1-Bottle hand sanitizer
4-Pkgs. wide ruled loose leaf paper
1-3 ring notebook (No Trapper Keeper)
4-Pkgs. #2 pencils
2-Bottles school glue
2-Boxes facial tissue
1-24 ct. colored pencils
1-Pkg. assorted construction paper
6-Pocket folders with fasteners
2-Rolls paper towels
1-Box of Ziploc bags quart or gallon
1-Pair of scissors
1-Ruler (metric and standard)
2-Highlighters
1-Red pen or pencil
1-Bar eraser
1-pkg. Colored markers (basic colors)

We are required to provide this at the beginning of school and again in January... also throughout the year we will generally get notes asking for more of this or that.

I just cannot understand what the deal is here. My district spends over $9000 per student (the highest in the state), yet we are one level from "failing" on the NCLB scale, we have no assistant teachers... the problems go on and on.

I know you are probably thinking (if you have even read this far, I know I am ranting here) that I am just a complainer and doing nothing. That's not the case. I have volunteered 20 hours or so a week at school since my son started. I have substitute taught in the lower grades since he started. I spend a lot of time up there. I know that the supplies that are brought are stock piled and rarely used by the students for anything. There are entire closets full of construction paper that teachers just store because they have nothing to use it with and are required to hold on to it. They are discouraged from returning things to students at the end of the year and there is a policy of "pooling" where all school supplies are put together (your kid doesn't keep the spiderman notebook he picked out) and passed out randomly as needed. So even the magic markers you buy or school box may go to anyone else in the class and very likely not your kid. And even more likely it will never be used. Last year I had to buy EIGHT spiral notebooks for my 3rd grader and he used ONE PIECE OF PAPER from them for the entire year (his teacher was new and returned them contrary to the unspoken policy of keeping all extra things). Does any of this make sense?

I know I am just going on and on and probably not making much sense, but I am so frustrated by all of this I find myself crying constantly about it (though I try to wait until my son's asleep or busy before I freak out).

[Perna]

I think you have to get together a bunch of other parents (do you all have an active PTSA?) and go wage war on the school board meetings? It does sound insane, especially the part where they stockpile. Up here in Maryland they give you a list but the teachers make it up of what they need for their class (which makes sense :-) If nothing else, instead of stockpiling I would demand X dollars and the school could buy whatever the students needed and pass it out, not have to use all that space stockpiling.

The "uniform" thing is happening up here too and I think it does help some with kids not coveting each others stuff/stealing and helping the kids stay a bit more focused instead of everyone checking everyone out; kind of goes with the schools no longer having windows like they did when I was a kid in the 1950's I guess; don't want those students looking out the window and day dreaming! I do wish the schools would get over the whole "factory" model of education though, trying to make their production line all the same ("uniform" :-) neat and tidy?

[lynn P.]

Our school list here in Canada is very similar except no paper towels, Ziploc bags but we have other things like binders. Then there's all the supplies for the endless projects. We're asked to contribute Kleenex because the school board doesn't pay for this.

I approve of uniforms for high school students for the reasons Perna mentioned. It's not practical for younger kids considering they grow so fast. In one more year my daughter will be starting high school so I have to decide to send her to the separate school that has uniforms or the public -no uniforms.

When I went to high school I wore a uniform and I liked it. No worries about what to wear. Having 2 girls myself, it can be a headache worrying about clothes some mornings.

I think you could get some other parents involved and go to the parent meetings. I agree 8 hrs a day is too much. You can also ask them where physical education fits in - I know they cut this out in many U.S. schools.

[perpetuallysad]

I hate the cookie cutter mentality of the schools. I honestly feel like they are just trying to make the kids into robots!

We have a super active parents group that actually isn't part of the PTA, because the PTA mostly just pats themselves on the backs for their endless expensive fundraisers that never actually end up giving money to the schools. We parents even hired a lawyer to sue the board to put an injunction against the uniforms and other changes until it could be worked out as a group (meaning the community with the school board) and the courts basically won't give us the time of day. The hearing has been perpetually postponed and will probably never even happen.

We have in k-2nd grade mandatory p.e. for 40 mins each day, 3-5 have it for 30 mins twice a week and then the older grades have to take it one semester per school year. From what I understand though, the older grades mostly spend p.e. time doing homework or chatting, though you can play basket ball if you want to do something.

The problem with the uniforms is/was that most parents actually participated in the survey and over 70% both times voted against it. That really should have been the end of it. Let me tell you, they also are only allowed to wear "school colors" which are WHITE, BLACK or GOLD. And then only black or khaki pants, shorts, skirts or jumpers. Right now it is over 100 degrees outside, so it just asinine to put black on that list. And how often have you been able to keep a kid's white shirt clean? Especially if they wear it to school? So that leaves GOLD!!! They must have collars and no logos, designs, etc on them at all. The school didn't "order" any uniforms at the local stores until the end of May so the stores here actually aren't even carrying the uniforms. We have some khaki shorts and skirts, but its difficult to find ones that don't have pockets (they cannot have pockets). The only shirts are white, no black and no gold were ordered because the board waited so long to let the stores know about this happening (apparently orders are done many months ahead of time).

I understand the argument about worrying about others clothes, at least, I can see why that may worry some people. When I was in school I was very poor and I pretty much had nothing to wear and definitely nothing cute or nice, but no one ever made fun of me. Maybe I was lucky, I'm not sure. I'm fairly sure though that if this is an actual problem here, it's not going to be resolved by not allowing them to wear what they want, the jerks will still make fun of people, they will just find something else to pick on. I think the uniforms are about control.

This is the shirt color:

[AAAAA]

I will agree to disagree with you on the school uniform issue.

Our school supply list is very similiar to your own. We spend on average about $150 per child each semester, but their supplies are their own. The only class I can think of where things are "pooled" is music/band. Students are required to bring in a packet of blank sheet music. Notebooks and folders are color coded. You can only use your red notebook for math for example, and there can actually be issues if you're in history with a red notebook. When all four kids were in school we just bought supplies by the case. Several classes required more than one notebook. One for notes and one for assignments. Certain English, Science, and Math courses require three or more.

Your comment about the spiderman notebook brought back memories. Since I could not find any teal notebooks anywhere I delegated Yugio notebooks and folders for that class (whatever it was) and I ACTUALLY had to go to the school and explain MY actions! The Yugio ones were black except for the art work, and therefore could have been confused with the "black" class. I went to Walmart, Kmart, Shopko, Office Depot, and Staples looking for those stupid teal notebooks and could not find them anywhere! I call that more than a reasonable effort to comply with their rules.

[perpetuallysad]

Tee hee. You made me laugh AAAAA, I needed that.

Another annoying thing I thought of a few minutes ago was that the kids don't have books. Remember when you were in school and on the first day you had books checked out to you, your name written on the front page thingy and your parents had to sign a card agreeing that they would replace them or whatever? Ya, they don't have hard back books to bring home AT ALL. Though they do occasionally have sets of books that are for classroom only use, like last year they used some spelling books that I am fairly sure were from when I was in school here 17 years ago. Other than that, they get handouts mostly. Or things that the teacher's have printed off the internet.

Looks like a pretty standard supply list (short actually). I know you are frustrated about the uniform deal, but that is not unusual either. We have some schools in our district that use uniforms and others that don't. The schools that use them are happy with them. The schools that don't use them are happy with that. Go figure.

[Sabrina]

In South Africa, school uniforms are compulsory. We have no choice. And they cost us thousands. Literally. My son is starting a new school next year (high school) and I have to take out a loan in order to afford his new uniform. I have noticed that the kids don't respect their uniform and try their best to make a fashion statement of some sort out of it anyway.

There is no such thing as free lunches. We have a tuck shop where the kids can buy food but basically Mom's pack in a lunch for the kids. I pack one in for my son everyday.

We also have to buy all the stationery and books for the year and there are many extras in between.

Then there are the exorbitant school fees which have to be paid monthly.

I haven't even got to medication and transport yet......... (also have to pay for transport - no free transport in SA).

I sympathize as it is frighteningly expensive to put a child through school.

[perpetuallysad]

Thanks Sabrina (I like your new avatar), it's interesting to get a new perspective, especially one from so far away from me. I'm guessing that schooling is all private there?

We don't qualify for free lunch, but trying to keep up with all of this is very hard for us. Of course, it adds to my guilt of not working, knowing that if I had any sort of job, we would be much better off. I prefer to pack my son's lunches, but there is a "hot lunch" available everyday for $2 a meal. Unfortunately, it's not very cool to bring your lunch (because as I said, most everyone qualifies for free lunch, so most everyone-meaning all his friends-eat school lunch... this has led him to buying his lunches at school, which I really dislike because they are insanely unhealthy). As far as transportation, I do take him to school (though he could ride the bus), the bus is very unsafe, they allow teenagers on the bus with the little kids and there ends up being all kinds of problems. Anyway, I live in a small town, only a few square miles, so I am able to take him and pick him up from school.

I digress, as usual. I appreciate you all reading this and helping me to try to keep a better perspective on everything. When I was freaking out last night I realized that while all the things I've listed bother me, it's the cumulative effect of it all that is so upsetting and scary to me. Last year there were only a very few days when I picked my son up and he didn't cry about how miserable he is. He's learning so little, quite literally spends about 80% of classroom time doing math and reading. It's very frustrating to him. Everyday I get closer to just homeschooling him, but he's an only child so I worry I would be robbing him of child friends, and I hate the thought of that too. He's a good student, usually making perfect or near perfect grades and he behaves properly, so he receives practically no attention from his teacher, far too many other students are falling behind or are behavior problems for the teacher to have any extra time for the "good" students.

My husband has worked at the university here for 17 years and really likes his job (sometimes I am resentful of this, but that's a whole other post), so moving is a limited option. The state (which pays his salary and manages his retirement account) has recently passed an awful law that essentially takes away your retirement (it's a mandatory system where they deduct a certain amount from your pay no matter what) if you leave the system before you have worked at least 20 years (and yes, this is somehow legal)... so if we tried to find a better school, he would lose a few hundred thousand dollars he has in his retirement fund.

I'm sorry this has just turned into a freak out about my life. My internal T is reminding me that part of the reason I'm freaking out is that my son's sperm donor is having another child (wife's pregnant) and my son has been begging me for many years to have another child, so I am terrified he will want to live with the jerk because then he won't be alone (he's very lonely and tells me this nearly every day). When does life ever get easier?

And Sabrina, if I had to take out a loan for uniforms I would just have a heart attack, all of this is bad enough, the added strain of a loan for clothes would send me packing to the hospital.

[AAAAA]

I do understand both sides of the uniform issue. As a culture we take our civil rights very seriously. I've personally gone to school and raised hell because the Principal made a friend of my daughter's take a nose ring out because "this is not the image our school would like to project". If I as a parent allow my child to get her nose pierced, who is the Principal to tell her she cannot wear it? He has no clue what our religious or cultural beliefs are.

But on the other hand, as late as the 70s boys were required to keep their hair cut short and wear slacks and white shirts. Girls still had to kneel on the ground to check if their skirt length was too short. In the 80s when I went to school, shorts were only acceptable in gym class.

There was a show on MTV or VH1 about how different schools deal with different discipline issues. There was a marathon on one day and I watched a few episodes. In one southern school a boy in HS had his hair touching his ears, eyebrows and collar. This violated their dress code so he had a choice: either he could leave school at that moment get a hair cut and have 6 Saturday schools or he could allow a teacher to cut his hair right then and have detention for that day. The teacher cut his hair in school. I would absolutely have flipped out if they did this to my child! This is a PUBLIC school! I wondered how they address Native American culture!

But our schools have drastically changed in the last 40 years. In elementary schools our children are somewhere in the top 15 worldwide, but by the time they reach Jr. High we are very near the bottom and yet it still costs us nearly twice as much to educate them. One of the most glaring differences between our children and their European cousins is our attitude in what is acceptable in school.

On another note, our school district extended the day to 8 hours a few years ago, when my daughter was a senior. Last year they cut it back again last year because they discovered that that additional 30 minutes a day translated into thousands of additional dollars in energy costs that they could not afford.

We (student + parent) have to sign a "contract" with the school every year. The three hours a night of homework must be a standard set somewhere, because the student agrees to dedicate three hours to homework a night and the parent agrees to enter into a "partnership" with the school to educate their child.

Another thing that I found astonishing is that a neighboring community started charging a registration fee every year for a PUBLIC school 10 years ago. At that time it was $25 per child. I had four kids in school, after spending literally thousands to outfit (have to have three pairs of shoes each) and supply these kids for school, I do not have an extra $100 to enroll my kids in school!

[AAAAA]

(((perpetuallysad))) If your son is miserable in school, why don't you home school him? I know it is very expensive, check to see if there is a virtual school that your state recognizes.

I put it off for many years because I was afraid of socialization issues and that I was not qualified to do their education justice. I truly regret waiting for so long. The boys and truly enjoyed that experience. You mentioned that 8 hours is too long. But when I homeschooled them, nearly every day their siblings came home from school and we were still plugging away. THEY would say "let's just finish this first". It was very often dinner time before we were finished. But then they didn't have homework either.

There are many options for socialization. He can still play with the friends he has now, he doesn't need to lose contact with them because he's homeschooled.

[perpetuallysad]

Thank you AAAAA. I am trying so hard to do what is right. I know I shouldn't be so overwhelmed, but to me being a parent is so incredibly hard. I was abused and neglected by my mother and step fathers, so maybe that's why I am so scared of doing something wrong.

He is really miserable at school. I think that I would be able to teach him because I've taught (granted, only substituting) for several years now and I think I do a good job. So, you homeschooled your twins? I really, really feel like he would learn so much more and be better served to be homeschooled, but I doubt myself so much that I am terrified to take the plunge. I am trying to be brave. I have read a lot of homeschooling books and followed a few secular homeschooling bloggers, it just seems so much better. Those kids always are so far "ahead" of where my son is in school. They haven't even taught him cursive writing and the times tables I've taught him at home, but he gets no practice at school.

Anyway, I know half of what I say makes no sense, I am so tormented and conflicted right now. Oh ya, he could still play with the neighbor (yes, the freaking crazy ***, awful parents neighbor) and his 3 cousins live 3 hours away so we do see them fairly regularly.

I feel like I am having a nervous breakdown. My husband has been out of town for a few weeks now and won't be back until next Weds (not tomorrow). I just want to cry and cry.

[AAAAA]

I think the catalyst for me was when I left to care for my dying grandmother. Before that I was doing homework with the kids faithfully every night for hours upon end. My older twin has a true gift for English and his Math skills are amazing... BUT he takes a minute to understand what is going on. He is currently taking an honors calculus course and his biggest problem is that he does everything in his head!!! Way beyond my skills. My younger twin is better with Science and history.

It all started when they were in the 3rd grade. The homework they had to do was just ridiculous. By the time they reached Jr. High my tolerance level was zero. When I went up to care for my grandmother I learned that I had been the one teaching them. I could write a book on what came next (and have here in different places). I was the most concerned with teaching them Math. These are foundation subjects and from experience I knew that if you miss something you struggle forever.

When I figured out that I was the one teaching them to begin with, I had nothing to lose so I took the plunge. I HIGHLY recommend Teaching Textbooks for Math. They are very expensive, but SO worth it.

I wanted to make sure that their quality of education exceeded what they were getting in school, so I found out which versions of the text books they would be using the following year and set out to purchase them. The hardest to obtain by far were the science books. There are a lot of creation versions out there for homeschoolers, but main stream sciences were hard to come by. I had to join a group called Oasis that allowed me to purchase those textbooks with teacher Editions.

Your son is going into the fourth grade. He already has a circle of friends has he not? You can still tap into that social circle. There are also leagues through the Y and what not that he can join. Also, your state may allow him (should you wish) to join things like sports or even take some classes in school like Band or Art.

As I said, I would do a search for virtual schools. I would NOT recommend the K-12 version (may be ok for a child your age, but I found it lacking for older students). I really like the Florida Virtual School (although I believe your son may to too young, classes start at Jr. High). What I discovered in my state is that there are Virtual schools through the state, they are accredited public schools. My son (one chose to return to public school) has a "teacher" through that school, which acts more like a true guidance counselor. He can take classes from a variety of sources one of the big ones is the U of Missouri. (I don't care for their format, but many people like them).

Are you not from Missouri? With the set up they have available to students world wide (many military children take these courses) I find it surprising these services are not available to you free of charge.

[Perna]

I think if 70% of the parents don't want it then 70% of the parents should make sure their kids go to school in other clothes. What are they going to do about that?

[perpetuallysad]

I have wondered the same thing Perna. I guess what keeps me from doing it is that I don't want my son punished because I disagree with something (which is what will happen).

Thank you so much for your response, AAAAA. I actually live in Mississippi, not Missouri. There is a virtual school here, but it is only available for high school students. A lot of the things you describe are very similar to how I feel. I am working on my courage. I have "open house" with his teacher in about 2 hours, so I will see what I think about her, she just graduated, so this is her first year. I've had a first year teacher before and it was an absolute nightmare (which is why I started spending so much time at the school).

[Perna]

I have a friend who only had certain clothes "recommended" to the parents and one day they came into class and were obviously counting who was in the "right" clothes and who was not. She got livid when she heard and called the school, asked them if they counted African Americans or Asians, etc. They had made the mistake of saying they were counting the people NOT in the right clothes, thus singling certain children out in a negative fashion. The school board is not "law" just the people you elect are. I don't think they'll "punish" your son, just send a note home or something. I'd have him wear what he wants the first week, see what other parents do? Maybe find him a nice pale yellow shirt and khakis? You know, that first week, nobody's going to be sure they have the right colors/shades or how it all will work and it might break down with most against it, just start sort of close and get worse as time goes by That's what happened in my friend's school.

[perpetuallysad]

Hee hee. I like your style, Perna.

[perpetuallysad]

To add something positive, I just went and met my son's teacher for the year and she seemed decent. He's actually said that he cannot wait until school starts now because "maybe I'll finally have a good year". I have my fingers crossed.

[buttrfli42481]

I understand your frustrations with having to go to "uniforms" with such short notice and trying to find the right items. However, I am a huge fan of uniforms. My daughter, (who is also going into 4th) is attending a private school for her 2nd year. The only decision she has to make is what color shirt she wants to wear, red or blue polos or white dress shirt. All girls K-5 have to wear plaid jumpers that fall below their knees, 6-12 can wear plaid or navy below the knee skirts or the jumper. The boys can wear either khaki or navy pants with the same choice of shirts. When she was in public school, there would be arguments over what to wear on what particular day. Now the only day that she has to wear a specific shirt is Wednesday, and that is full dress day for the whole school. They have to wear white blouses/shirts, ties, sweaters, and the plaid jumper/skirt with navy socks.

As for learning, my daughter has learned more and is ahead of the students in public schools. Not only do they learn the traditional subjects, but they also learn respect and manners. They also teach Spanish starting in kindergarten. Her homework last year was normally a worksheet reinforcing what they learned in a particular subject, and they never had homework on Wednesdays and rarely on the weekend, besides reading.

[perpetuallysad]

It sounds like you are lucky with your daughter and her schooling. I am so glad to hear a success story.

I really have a lot to say, but I am having trouble formulating my thoughts right now. I'll try to respond more in a bit.

[Sabrina]

No perpetuallysad, not all schools are private. My son is at a government school. So that says something about the costs involved! Private schools are totally unaffordable to to the average person.

This has been an interesting thread - I am glad you are talking your way through it.

[perpetuallysad]

Thanks Sabrina. My son's eating breakfast right now, about to leave for his first day of school. I got about 20 seconds of sleep last night, I am soooo anxious about all of this. I really hope things go alright.

Wow, that sounds so scary about the schools. How do poor people deal with the financial strain even of government schools?

Wait until they get into high school and are in organizations that have fees. Kids are just expensive and it gets more expensive as they get older. My son's band fees in public school are nearly $1000 on the high school level (highly ranked band in the state). It's just part of the whole raising kids things. If it's not band, it's cheerleading, or drill team, or drumline, or soccer, or football, or . . . . Then there's cars, college, etc. . . . Something to look forward to.

[geez]

Originally Posted by perpetuallysad

I really, really feel like he would learn so much more and be better served to be homeschooled, but I doubt myself so much that I am terrified to take the plunge. I am trying to be brave. I have read a lot of homeschooling books and followed a few secular homeschooling bloggers, it just seems so much better. Those kids always are so far "ahead" of where my son is in school. They haven't even taught him cursive writing and the times tables I've taught him at home, but he gets no practice at school.

My son is going to be in kindergarten this fall and we really like our public school system where we live (we are lucky as it's diff every where -nothing is perfect however). Our son spent two years in Montessori preschool and we along with him loved it (it wasn't 'cheap' but it fit our situation with his anxiety - they put the child first and worked with us to make his experience a positive one instead of a traumatic one).

Is there a magnet school in your area? I don't know how it all works but you can apply for your child to attend. Also is there any financial aid for private schools? If none of the above I would consider the homeschool option and be sure to sign him up for activities to interact with other children.

Best wishes and wishing you peace on this subject.

PS - If you want to learn more about Montessori I highly recomend looking into it. It's a child centered not teacher centered learning environment. IMO I think all public and private schools should follow their model as children are extreemly successful and their are no boundries for what they can learn. - and it's all driven by the child's interests. The learning environment/methods were based from teaching children that society had deemed unteachable. Maria Montessori is the founder of this teaching.

[perpetuallysad]

I do love Montesorri. I had him on the waiting list for the only one within about a 100 miles, but he got too old before he ever made it to the top of the list. (They only teach up to kindergarten.) There are no magnet schools even remotely near me. There are several private schools, but they are not an option.

Yesterday was the first day of school and things went alright. My son seems to like his teacher, but generally is not happy and did cry last night and this morning about school. The rules boarder on the asinine and I have trouble with a lot of their ideas of how kids are required to behave. Oh ya, let me say this though, I don't generally have a problem with the teachers, most every one I've met and worked with was a great person and tried their very best, within the rules, to teach the kids, so this is in no way an indictment of the teachers at all.

I had a paragraph explaining why I will not do private schooling here, but I am concerned it will turn into a discussion that will get out of hand, and I have removed it.

I know that kids are expensive, hence I only have one. I am frustrated, in general, with the rules and educational experience provided by the schools here. Regardless of how much or how little things cost, I am not satisfied.