Daughter and husband permanently arguing.

Hi there.
I know that my 13 year old daughter is really not that bad, she argues and back chats constantly but I try to stay grounded and not give in and hope that this phase calms down. However, her dad usually yells back and it ends up in a total row with doors slamming (and not just my daughter!) and all of us getting upset. He has such a short fuse that he will yell at her for not moving fast enough when she has been asked to do something.

He is under alot of stress at work, but has been for a long time. I keep telling myself that it will get better but it never does. When I talk to him he tells me that if she just behaved herself he wouldnt have to shout. I love him very much but we really cant carry on like this and he just doesnt seem to understand how much it hurts me and Heather. He also says that I'm not tough enough and I'm not giving him any support which really really hurts!

Sorry for waffling. I think what I really need is some advice on controlling Heather's backchat, and how to approach my husband without it sounding like I'm blaming him.

Thanks
Sarah

Wow. Have you been living in my house?? My 13 yr old daughter and my husband are the same exact way. And he and I have the same differences in opinion on the matter. He is very militant and acts like a drill sergeant, whereas I try to be more flexible, give choices, and try to understand her point of view. Now, I am no saint by any means, and have my own days where she is just too much and I lose it, but nothing like he does.

Your daughter is doing what she is supposed to be doing at this age - testing the boundaries and trying to pull away and be independent. Unfortunately, the back talk is part of it. The crazy thing is, that's actually the goal of parenting...to take a drooling, pooping, lump of absolute adorableness and somehow shape it into a responsible, independent adult. But it sure is hell along the way! Now, there are limits - challenging rules is one thing, being completely disrespectful, name calling, swearing, etc. (if this is what she's doing) is another thing altogether and shouldn't be tolerated. On the other hand, she is becoming a young woman, and is not a dog - therefore, simply "behaving herself" and following orders is not likely to happen.

It sounds like you have three issues here:

1. Heather's back talk and argumentativeness.

There's a website I'd like to share with you: www.empoweringparents.com/
It talks about how to handle the back talk and defiance we get from our kids. There are articles and a newsletter you can sign up to get. We, as the adults in the relationship, need to work smarter, not harder, at communicating with our kids. (I'm still learning!) That's good to hear that you're standing your ground with her. Good job, Mom! Now to get Dad on board....

And that brings us to problem #2: your husband's response to her. He may not be able to hear it from you on this one. Is there any way you could go to a few family therapy sessions? Our family has been in family therapy for a few months now and it has helped. The therapist can help him understand why his message of "I want you to do these things because I'm your father and deserve respect" might not be coming across very well and is clashing with her message of "I'm growing up now and I don't need you telling me what to do all the time". It may also give your daughter a safe place to hear the back story behind his message (for example - "I give you rules to keep you safe and you need to learn obedience to succeed in this world"). These statements are just examples and I am no way trying to read his mind. But there's often more to the story than words actually say.

The third issue you are dealing with is his response to you. Are you confronting him about his behavior in front of her? That will set my husband off immediately. I've learned that the only way I have a chance of him hearing me is if I pull him aside and speak to him privately, out of earshot of my daughter as much as possible, and as calmly as possible. Somehow, you need to present a united front as much as is safely possible or she will tear you both down. Unfortunately, when things are heating up between them and getting out of hand, you need to be the referee and tell everyone to take a time out. Easier said than done, I know. I have found that saying things like, "this needs to stop now", and "we need to take a break - we'll discuss it when everyone cools off" - and stand firm with him, too. Become a broken record..."you need to stop"..."but she's out of control!"..."you need to stop"..."but she's..."..."you need to stop"...When people revert to a child-like way of communicating (ie: losing it and blaming), then we have to almost treat them like children and stop them in their tracks to diffuse things. Oh, and yelling back only adds fuel to the fire. Keep your voice calm, but stern - with both of them. If you are able to diffuse things and can talk to him later on, in private, try to show him some of the articles on the website. If he becomes scary to you when he gets angry, tell him. That stopped my husband in his tracks when I told him we were afraid of him at one point (he's a big guy and can be very intimidating). Above all, stay safe. If he's really getting out of control, get yourself and the kids out of the house.

I highly recommend family therapy, if at all possible. And don't make it about him if you decide to try that. Make it a family issue - that you think the family could use some help in learning how to get along better.

How is your husband when he's not fighting with your daughter? Is he hostile to you or extremely irritable? He may actually be suffering from depression - men often express depression as anger.

I hope I'm not coming off as preachy - like I said, I am still very much in the learning process myself. But these are things that have worked for us. We still have some issues, but I feel like things are better under control now.

to your family.

I think at this age fathers/daughters and mothers/sons battle. My daughter could set my husband off without saying a word by rolling her eyes at him.

I am a bit concerned because it sounds in your post that you’ve sided with your daughter. If she sees this (and I guarantee she does) then this battle will only escalate. She knows that all she has to do is get you to the point that you’ve lost track of the issue and only want peace she will push to that point every time. It doesn’t mean she’s a bad child, it is just human nature. But it WILL damage your relationship with your husband. If there is one I heard a million times it was “you always side with the kids.” It took me a really long time to realize that it was true. The yelling would start over a legitimate issue and it would bring up my own issues and I would jump on him just to stop the fight… between them. Before we learned to deal with these issues I felt like I had another child, my husband. I’d yell at him for yelling at the kids and yell at the kids for making their father a raving lunatic.

I’ve lived this life and this is what worked for me (most of the time).

First have a private talk with your husband. Let him know that even though he’s right you cannot deal with the shouting and door slamming. (He is right, your daughter is misbehaving and the behavior must be addressed) Ask him what it will take to remove that from the equation. Shouting is not working, all it is doing is escalating the situation. Come up with a plan that you will present as a united front. Most common transgressions and what you both believe the punishment should be.

Remind him that this is an age when she has all sorts of hormones running wild and she hasn’t learned to deal with them yet. She may be angry and not even know why. He may be the target of her ill temper, but it doesn’t necessarily mean she’s being disrespectful intentionally.

What does the dawdling hurt? If she’s putting off chores or homework so she ends up having to stay up later than she should that definitely needs to be addressed otherwise take that time out of her leisure time. I have no doubt that HE sees it as a direct insult and disrespect but she’s just acting out.

Secondly Heather must learn to respect authority. In this case her father. She needs to learn to express her feelings in a respectful manner. Right now she’s playing both sides against the middle. When you are ALL calm explain to her that this is not appropriate behavior and it will not be tolerated. If she’s generally a good child, ask her how she thinks her back talk would be accepted by a teacher or police officer. Let her know that her behavior is hurting YOU too. You deserve peace in your own home. Let Heather know that your husband is under stress and her behavior puts him over the edge. But at the end of the day he is her father and she MUST listen to him.

I intervened with my own kids. When their mouth started going and I knew it was going to escalated, I sent them to their room. Do not come out until you can be civil. (Cell phones, computers and video games were removed. I found it easiest to take the power cords). Find creative punishments. If one of the issues is that she won’t keep her room clean, take the door off of its hinges. Works like a CHARM. Or if they were taking their time loading/unloading the dishwasher, they had to wash the dishes by hand.

Third, if any of this is going to work you HAVE to back him up. If you disagree with him take it up with him in PRIVATE. Have a back up plan. There will be times when she’s in a mood and he’s in a mood and they are going to clash. What are you going to do to stay out of it? Go for a walk, put your ear buds in? Heck, take him with you. If her behavior has pushed him over the edge, say “honey, let’s go for a walk.” Good Luck!

Thankyou so much Dragonfly2 and AAAAA.

You are both right. Heather is playing us off of each other. I know she is doing it but sometimes I will do anything for a peaceful life. I've talked to my husband about his stress levels and he admits that he needs some help. He's got an appointment to see our GP.
As for siding with Heather, Oops, I think you're right.

She tried laying the guilt trip this morning, saying that I was just like her dad! I told her that we both like respect!

Thankyou again. I will definitely take your advice on board.

Yay! I'm so glad to see that your husband is getting some help. I hope things can improve for you soon.

I’m so glad that your husband is getting help handling his stress. This is a lifelong struggle. I hope that the two of you can set a plan to present a united front. Once your daughter learns she’s not going to play both sides against the middle she’ll have to find another tactic.

Good for you on the reply! A friend of mine once said some of the wisest words I’ve ever heard spoken: “God gives us the teenage years so we will be able to let our children go.”

That is the funniest thing I've heard in a long time! If you ask my 13 year old what she's getting for her 18th birthday she'll tell you....luggage. (My husband's tease to her.) Don't worry...we're not kicking her out to the curb on her 18th birthday. We'll let her finish high school first.

Hi there,
Went with my husband to his doctor's appointment. I was pleased he asked me to go along because I didnt realise just how bad he's been feeling. The doctor's put him on antidepressants and suggested counselling. I think we need to look at our lifestyles! I have been on and off antidepressants for years, so that now makes both of us. Not sure what to tell Heather. She knows that he's really stressed, but I think she will freak out if we tell her he's on antidepressants as well.

Poor kid. Thats makes me worried about her susceptibility to mental illness. Perhaps I need to train her up in the art of relaxation and positive thinking!

Thanks again for your help.
Sarah

(((sas123))) That's great news. Hopefully things will improve once your husband is feeling better. At least it will be a bit easier to communicate with him and you'll have a better chance of coming together as a team.

Mental illness or not, I think everyone can benefit from relaxation training and positive thinking. Now is the time to instill those habits in your daughter.

I’d be honest with her sas123. She’s old enough to understand and you’re never too young to learn compassion and empathy. I’m a firm believer in using these things as teaching life lessons. With the mental health issues in my own family I was very vigilant with my own kids. Even though I grew up with a mother that had mental health issues, I felt the need to hide myself. I waited for years before seeking help…It was almost too late for me. I attempted suicide several times and never wanted my children to go through that. It was SO important that they knew that there is no shame and that there is help available.