Do Narcissists wish that society was more empathetic towards them?

Well if you seriously think I'm a psychopath feel free to message me and hit me up for a conversation.

I'm laughing so much right now! Good to see you waiting4!

I am ever so well, hehehe. How's you?

I'm excellent! I muddle through with verve as you well know!! I liked your posts on the ASPD thread as well....I wish I had more time to add my much desired 2 cents...but you've broken the bank with your insight so, I'll just bow and back away slowly lmao

Truthfully..the whole 'caring thing' kinda mystifies me too, at times, but I rarely feel guilty...nor even confused by the lack. Ah well, it is what it is...and makes it the better to understand you, my dear lol

Take care *grin* Say hi to underground for me if you see him, please...and make it specifically first person particular....he'll appreciate that! lol

I have zero investment in people "understanding" me and as I've mentioned above I am typically extremely contemptuous of people who try. As for being admired/respected, eh it's a means to an end for me. Not the end itself. If being admired/respected gets me what I want then I certainly cultivate that and I do it flawlessly(I'm insanely charismatic/charming, heh). Also, by that same token if being hated is what will get me what I want, then I cultivate that too. I don't care what other people think of me, all I care about is getting what I want.[/QUOTE]

I'm curious. What do you think of people who try to understand you not for your sake but for the sake of gaining knowledge. I'm new here so don't know you from Adam (assuming your name isn't Adam). You said you're a psychopath. That can mean most anything. Have you been diagnosed? If so, as what? I'm just trying to get some idea of where you're coming from.

That's just a theory. Some would argue narcissists genuinely think the world is their sandbox. One camp tends to argue that narcissists are stuck in a primitive developmental stage as far as personality and morality goes, and thus genuinely believe they are entitled to certain treatment and are better than others. Another camp would say as you say. In fact, the outward behavior isn't necessarily frowned upon in some contexts.

Why assume something tragic or painful must have occurred to create a Cluster B personality? For instance, borderlines become borderlines through continued instances of abandonment (think being left alone in a shopping mall or inconsistent care, and not necessarily sudden death of both parents) and invalidation during sensitive periods, combined with sensitive temperament as a result of genes. These changes reflect in the way the growing brain adapts and thus develops. Likewise is true for narcissists, antisocials, etc. It doesn't have to be a major trauma, it's more often than not a continuous effort to function in a particularly structured family environment, it's what's adaptive during those sensitive periods where our brains are most plastic. If your environment promotes or enables egocentric behavior and you have a biological predisposition to it, that's the way the cookie sometimes crumbles. It's not necessarily a defense mechanism, either. Rather its a cluster of traits that developed for the aforementioned reasons.

Everyone views everyone else as X, Y, or Z. It's subjective and we live in a world of intersubjectivity. The fact, however is that we are social animals who are genetically programmed to survive in small bands. If you are utterly concerned with yourself and your interests, you're a liability to the group and get ostracized. You'll be the first to run when a sabre-toothed tiger pops up in the vicinity, and you'll be the one who hogs the biggest piece of the mammoth. Having empathy for such a person is antithetical to survival, being able to dehumanize them and dismiss them keeps the group functional. Now that civilization has largely turned survival of the fittest into a metaphorical phenomenon, the implications aren't so damning, but still, biology hasn't yet caught up with technological and social advancement. Humankind as a species, in its current form, hasn't been around extremely long, and given the extremely rapid advancement of society in the last few hundred years and the subsequent changing of what it means to be a human, our programming hasn't quite kept up with the times. We still think in terms of in-groups and out-groups and a person who is unabashedly about him or herself (given the context of the society they are in) and does nothing reciprocal to keep that system going is going to be seen as a liability and a drag on the others.

I'll agree to disagree. Life isn't fair or just. After some point I reached the conclusion that some people are irredeemable and not worth my concern. Let me ask you- are you male or female? Because this type of thinking is so female, lol.

I have some traits, but I don't have a full-blown diagnosis of any personality disorder. Take my answer for what its worth. Some people will empathize, and some won't, regardless of your personality or disorder. That's just life. You gravitate toward others if you see your needs aren't getting met. And let's be frank, most people don't truly take the time to get to know others. Add projection and transference into the mix and you have the cluster**** that is known as modern human interaction. I can make a case in court that the repeat-offending murderer is a product of brain abnormalities, an insensitive and disagreeable temperament and a lack of significant attachments; after all, psychopathy is a clinical disorder rooted in these factors. Will anyone try to empathize with the defendant? The disease model that assumes people are sick is useful for treatment and medical purposes, but it ends there. Most of the world sees things in regards to decisions and choices, and there are certain traits and actions which inhibit empathy. Although you can always make the entirely valid case that our choices, actions, and thoughts are confined to our biological and developmental "cards". I could care less if someone could "understand" me. No one can ever truly understand another person. Much of what we do is project onto others. At the end of the day, I'm fine being myself. I don't ask others to empathize with me because I will admit, I don't empathize with alot of people. There are some instances where I can empathize with people, like in my line of work, and with people who are important to me or of value to me, but often I could care less, and that's how lots of people are. My maxim is that I look out for myself, and my future family. No one else is of my concern unless they fulfill a valued role to me. And most people are like that, if you strip all the societal niceties. No one sheds a tear for you in the grand scheme of things, so look out for yourself and love yourself.

Great analysis and honesty. You and I have had a similar upbringing, it seems. The shameful acts part, taking things out on anything in the vicinity... the oscillation and too-late guilt and shame. The hardening of defenses. Even the girlfriend part is similar to what I've experienced. That was pretty validating.

The part I bolded, that's exactly it. It just is what it is to me. I just consider my personality to be a Cluster B one, as I have strong traits of all four of those disorders so why just label it as one? Heh.

Atypical.... Hey there!! See that you found a therapist that works for you, nice to hear. Although I must admit that hearing things like this annoys me because it didn't happen for me. I know you understand!!!! Anyway I have a label for you........ suspended somewhere close but so far all the same........................ Maybe i'll share with you maybe I won't. Try not to spit the water all over yourself again!!!!
Love "The" ""Underground""!!<~~~~~~

You have a label for me? My, my, you should write your own version of the DSM at the rate you're going!

Competent therapists that can actually "take the heat" with NPD, BPD, ASPD, and HPD or some combination thereof are way too rare. Why have these disorders in the DSM if you people(professionals) aren't given proper education and training on how to treat them? Oh right, even the professionals don't understand personality disorders in spite of having ten of them listed in their "bible" of abnormal psychiatry. Seems stupid to have the labels at all. Pfft.

Oh how I do agree!!!! Don't hate the player, hate the game

Of course you agree with me!

Hehehe another epic Underground quote: "Don't hate the player, hate the game." I love that so much, HAHAHAHA!

I complete me!!!

It depends on whether you are a grandiose narcissist or are just a projected one. to be honest i did not like narcissists until i learned about them in depth. now i realize i have a couple of narcissistic traits. i just dont like them when they are compulsive 24/7.

LOL

You know, I just wanted to say, I read your trigger part, and I find it extremely sad that you had to deal with that, I empathize with you so much.

You didn't mention it, but I can only imagine (correct me if I'm wrong) how these two narcissists played the victim all the time, didn't they? Probably complaining to other people how "difficult" a child you were, etc. I'm glad you were able to rise above that and treat it like a game. I would have probably just become a victim of theirs, like I did the narcissists in my life. I wish I could have broke them like you did.

Now that you mention it, I didn't either. Now I'm an adult, and it feels like something I've "learnt" somehow, or I just understand it.

You can save me the Sunday school special with the empathy just saying. Thanks for the sentiment anyways though!

And yes complaining about me was a favorite. I was oh so evil and had a "rotten personality" and so on. The monologues are pretty damn hilarious thinking back on it. Suckers, joke was on them in the end.

That is interesting. I think of it in that I understand how the world works and how most people work, I just don't care for it.

Yeah, sorry about that. I guess I needed to use a better word. Sorry, it's my learned world understanding interfering there, because I learnt it as using the word "empathize" as I understand it to tell someone you feel for them in a situation they've been in, etc.

What I perhaps mean is I can see it sort of playing out in my mind's eye and it invokes a certain feeling in me, mostly of anger, as to how those people must have been acting, because I can see them already, their actions and words, and their front they put up in front of others playing the poor victim, and it riles my anger. And, I can see it because I've been there too, where I'm the evil one and they are the victims, whilst all the while it was their own little devices that backfired on them. I just mean I might know how it's like being the "evil one" on the other end of that, the accused one. Sorry, if I'm not making much sense, it's kinda difficult to put into words.

Yeah Suckers that did themselves in, it was nobody else's fault, just their own, and they deserve every bit of it.

Yeah, that's it, like I simply understand how it works, but don't really care for it. I understand what empathy is, but mine feels like it's toned-down or something, or only half-activated or something. It's only there sometimes and doesn't function fully when it is. And then being autistic I can't express it when it is there, so I might as well be a total monster anyways because people already think I am one because I can never express it when I do feel something.

May I add to this??? But of course I can!!!! Ha ha ha..... Here it is in a very simple format. If we didn't have to care what was what or why is why then we're all good. Every single person here striving for better or achieving goals is all based on a simple thought. Don't care how you present, what others think, why did this happen to me and so on. Let go of the past, present and future and live each second for what it is. All seconds ahead are unknown,we can't go back so changing what was just isn't possible. The ones in front are new paths to greatness and in letting go or erasing the faults we can truly make a difference. Absolute friggin genius I tell you, and it's for free!!! I have just cured muself and millions of others, your welcome!!!! I don't make it up, I only create greatness.
Sincerely,
The Underground "true genius"
Ps this writing above shows I have empathy. I care for all of you and how you feel so I just created away to make you feel better.
Empathy is my friend!!!

I do appreciate the Sunday school comment hahahaha

I'm here for you. Heheheheh!

When is it present and when is it not present?

I just can't feel empathy, like it's just not the way I'm wired. I have a level of "cognitive empathy" in that I can understand why somebody would be feeling X because of X but I don't "feel" that connection at all.

Being a "monster" isn't all that bad, lol. I don't mind comments like that made towards me as I know the person or people involved are simply ignorant of me and people are naturally going to label someone/thing as "negative" in some way just because they cannot or will not understand it.

Eh don't worry about it. My life is what it is, I don't need any form of empathy/sympathy nor do I want it.

People like my parentals can bring out the anger in most people if they are in their right mind at all, heh.

I get called "evil" or some variant thereof pretty often, it doesn't bother me... One person's "evil" is another person's "good" and all that.

I personally don't believe that there is a such thing as "good" and "evil". The only thing that I believe in is human nature which can be both "good" and "bad" depending on the person's circumstance. Just because somebody lacks empathy doesn't make them a "bad person" let alone a monster by any means; it simply means that they are wired differently than most people.

I agree though that I find it insulting when people state that they empathize with me or feel sorry for me for what I am or my general behaviors. It is my experience that most people who state these things really don't care or if they do, they see you as being less than human because of your "disorder".

Now to add my opinion to the original topic at hand: I stopped giving a damn about society or their useless opinions of me or others like me long ago. To me, most people are idiots and thus, lack the capacity to understand anything outside of societal norms. As far as I'm concerned, I don't need society to live my own life the way I want, so worrying about their opinions or trying to change them is a waste of time and energy.

With that being said, part of me does long to be understood by people, however, I only desire to be understood by those closest to me and only if the person truly wants to understand, doesn't seek to judge or pity me, has the capacity to have an open mind, and proves they're capable of critical thought.