[pachyderm]

New York Times article on how to use or withhold approval to get your children to do what you want (or not):

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/15/he...5mind.html?hpw

Hmmm....well.... I see this as being manipulative and I don't see being manipulative as a good thing. I guess I have one too many manipulative relatives. But at the same time...don't parents already do this? I mean, when your parents are upset with you, you know about it.

[Sannah]

Interesting article Pachy, thanks.

Children learn self control by being controlled by a parent when they are young. SuperNanny walks into some pretty chaotic households where there isn't any control and this isn't good. To get things in order takes some over the top effort and then things can be scaled back. I rarely, rarely discipline. When we get upset with our kids it is basically the real world. When they go out into the world people are going to react to them. There ain't no unconditional love out there....... People need feedback on their behavior, everyone.......

Children are actually afraid when a parent won't take charge because this means that they are in charge and that is a scary thought for a youngster.

But of course how you take charge makes all the difference. I liked what they mentioned in the article about "autonomy support". This stuff works. Also parenting can be divided into styles 1)permissive, 2)authoritarian, 3) authoritative. I'll bet if those studies would have added this it would have had more interesting results.

Leading by example is a very powerful one. My kids do well in school because their dad and I are very curious and studious. They see us reading and writing and being enthusiastic about knowledge......... This stuff is contagious.

[Seabirdanne]

Absolutely. I think a big mistake a lot of people make is assuming kids are not as smart as we are. Actually, the brains of children are super-wired for gathering and assimilating information -- it is we, the adults, who are lacking in comparison. The problem is, we often fail to communicate to children in a way they understand, so that part about seeing things from a child's point of view is very important. In its own way, a child's point of view can be more complex than the parent's.

[KathyM]

I agree with you Sannah. My father used his belt - but in a good way. I only remember getting hit with it once when I was very young, and it hurt like hell. I also remember him coming back into my room afterward to explain why he had to hit me. I can't remember what I did to get hit, but I remember my fathers words making a lot of sense. As bad as I was hurting, I knew how much he cared about me.

When I started getting a mind of my own, I'd occasionally test my father's authority on life. At this point he'd talk with me from his heart, telling me stories from his own life experiences. Even if I completely disagreed with him, he'd respect my view. When I put it to the test and failed, he never considered me a loser and him a winner. Never for a moment did I EVER feel unloved by him, even during those occasional moments when we were screaming at each other in anger.

My father's goal wasn't to control me or have me perform tricks like a dog. His goal wasn't to keep me happy and painfree. His goal was to prepare me to become a strong and responsible adult in the real world.

I remember an exchange we had when I was little.....

Dad: Go clean your room.
Me: I hate you!
Dad: You WHAT?
Me: I hate someone.
Dad: Who do you hate?
Me: I hate someone you don't even know.
Dad: Oh, okay - you shouldn't hate anybody - now go clean your room.

Rest in peace, dad.

[VickiesPath]

Originally Posted by KathyM

I agree with you Sannah. My father used his belt - but in a good way. I only remember getting hit with it once when I was very young, and it hurt like hell. I also remember him coming back into my room afterward to explain why he had to hit me. I can't remember what I did to get hit, but I remember my fathers words making a lot of sense. As bad as I was hurting, I knew how much he cared about me.

When I started getting a mind of my own, I'd occasionally test my father's authority on life. At this point he'd talk with me from his heart, telling me stories from his own life experiences. Even if I completely disagreed with him, he'd respect my view. When I put it to the test and failed, he never considered me a loser and him a winner. Never for a moment did I EVER feel unloved by him, even during those occasional moments when we were screaming at each other in anger.

My father's goal wasn't to control me or have me perform tricks like a dog. His goal wasn't to keep me happy and painfree. His goal was to prepare me to become a strong and responsible adult in the real world.

I remember an exchange we had when I was little.....

Dad: Go clean your room.
Me: I hate you!
Dad: You WHAT?
Me: I hate someone.
Dad: Who do you hate?
Me: I hate someone you don't even know.
Dad: Oh, okay - you shouldn't hate anybody - now go clean your room.

Rest in peace, dad.

I wish there were Dad cloning machines. We need more Dad's like yours.

[lynn P.]

I think this is a very interesting article and will bring about many varied opinions. I have a feeling this thread will be a 'hot one' so I hope it won't be removed or locked. I certainly don't think any child should feel, if they don't behave or comply, then they won't be loved.

But, I think it's natural if your child does some thing very wrong that it's okay to act disappointed with them and assign the approrpiate discipline(positive parenting) if necessary. Personally I never hit my 2 girls but when they were younger I would take away priveleges. It's not like we can go around with a smile on our faces when they do things wrong.

I remember once I was very disappointed with my oldest daughter for accidently letting my 1 yr old in the backyard where there was a pool. There's no way I could hide my disappointment that day! But I remember my oldest daughter crying and she said "do you still love me mommy"? This broke my heart and I told her, that I would always love her no matter what and just because I'm mad or disappointed, it doesn't mean my love is gone. I told her it's like when the clouds are covering the sun - it doesn't mean the sun is gone. So I make sure my girls know, that I do have expectations for good behavior but I still love them no matter what even when I'm upset. Through the years we talk alot together and I explain about good behavior and learning how important it is to be a good person. It's important for the parent to set reasonable expectations and guidelines otherwise the child won't know what to do. I also thinks it's important for the parent AND child to discuss their feelings.

[VickiesPath]

Many people have told me that I raised an exceptional child. My son will be 16 in December.

One of the things I never tried to do was be his friend. My job was to be his parent, his guide, his rock.

When he would get mad at me for enforcing a rule, he's say, "Why are you being so mean?" I would say, "I never promised you NICE!"

This past summer, I took him over to a friend's house and he asked me to pick him up at a certain time. I told him it was too close to the time we were expecting company and he needed more time to shower. He said no, his time would give him time to shower. I gave him "the look". He blurted out, "Don't judge me!" Well, I had never heard that come out of his mouth before. I quickly said, "I am not judging you. I am judging your decision." He got the funniest look on his face.

Another time this past summer, he went to a rock concert with a friend. The following morning, he called me from his friend's house. He told me he had lost his cell phone. After discussing it, I told him he was going to have to use an old one. He said ok. Later, I called the cellphone company and found out I could replace his phone for only a small charge.
So, when he got home, I told him. He said, "Mom. Aren't you even going to yell at me?!? I thought you'd at least yell at me!" I told him, are you sure you lost it or did someone nick it (pickpocket him)? He stopped and said he really didn't know. So, I said then it isn't appropriate that I blame you unless we are certain that it was your fault.

One time he did jump into a swimming pool with his cell phone in his pocket. THAT time he didn't get a new phone.

His older half-sister and half-brother have told him many times in the past that he is spoiled. I asked him if that had something to do with why he was upset that I got him a new phone. He said yes. I told him to not listen to them, that he is in no way spoiled, that he does not ever expect things and the things that he has, he appreciates and takes care of for the most part. Spoiled children don't appreciate where things come from.

How do those of you manage to raise more than one child at a time? Sometimes I tell myself, no wonder my mother drank, trying to raise four kids and having three teens in the house at once.

[AAAAA]

I've always felt that it was very important that my kids know that I love them unconditionally, no matter what they say or do. I may not like their behavior sometimes, but I've certainly never loved them any less. I make it very clear that I love them but their behavior occassionally needs improvement. I think it's also important to let them know that it's not their mistakes that define them, it's how they deal with them.

They all went through an difficult stage around age 12. I've always encouraged them to express their opinion, but my decision stands.