Where does "evil" come from?

One psychologist's discussion; as usual, I have to ignore the reader comments, because so many of them are so ignorant. I suppose one can learn from that too, though.

Anyway:

http://news.discovery.com/human/wher...come-from.html

Not sure I agree that 'evil' comes from being abused as a child. I know plenty people who were abused as children, certainly doesn't make them evil.

I had a discussion with a psychologist about people who are 'evil' and he said they were people with no soul. I think that sums it up. To do 'evil' deeds is a choice made by someone with no morals or values or simply to gratify there own ego.

I have read media reports of someone saying that XXX was evil because they were psychotic which isn't right because when someone is psychotic they are not aware of what they are doing.

Hitler on the other hand knew exactly what he was doing and took pleasure in torturing people, power was what he thrived on. He had no soul.

I would tend to agree with the author of the article on this one, with the exception that the mistreatment of a child can be affected and exacerbated by genetic predispositions. I had three brothers. There was something quite wrong with our mother. But this was a very long time ago, before P's & T's figured out how to deal with problems created before the age of three. (Freud apparently said, before the age of 6, forget it.) I am no professional, so all I can say is that mom really didn't like being close to other people, being intimate with other people. And that definitely included babies and toddlers. This created huge problems for me and my brothers, but only my brother Peter turned into a psychopath. He was drug addicted most of his life. Never held a job in his life. Spent much time in mental hospitals. Died at 47. These were things that none of the rest of us did. After many decades of reading and thinking, I believe that the other three of us reacted "normally" to the deprivation of maternal love and care, in other words, we were really screwed up but didn't go out to "get" other people. Peter was a different fish from day 1. And he perhaps had a genetic propensity. He was evil, if anyone was. He was evil to us, he was evil to others. He enjoyed and lusted for the creation of pain in others. Imagine growing up with someone like that! Yuk! And yes, my parents knew SOMETHING was wrong and took Peter to the leading shrinks of the day, who were all Freudian party members and had no idea what happens to kids who are mistreated as infants and toddlers. My mother, a vastly intelligent and educated and cultured woman, was also a consummate actress, so suspicion never fell on her. Child abuse can be very, very invisible on the outside. No one ever laid a hand on us. If a mother doesn't develop enough intersubjectivity or attunement with her child, if she doesn't hold it and cuddle it enough, if she doesn't make the baby feel wanted and loved so that the baby's self-regard develops normally, you wind up with people like me and like a lot of us, who spend 50 years in therapy (me) and try an awful lot of psychoactive drugs, most of which don't work. It's really a downer, and that's why I'm here, constant s*****e thoughts.

So. Where does evil come from. A combination of the "usual suspects": genetics, early childhood, later childhood environment. We haven't yet got to the point where we can separate out the percentage due to each, but come back in a hundred years and I'm sure there'll be interesting developments.

I think there's a problem because "evil" cannot be defined so everyone agrees to what it is. I don't think it is a very useful word; it's kind of like the word "nice" applied to someone. Behavior is behavior and is committed by humans. We have no way of knowing if we would behave a particular way under some other circumstances or not. Some people seem to enjoy, or not regret, doing horrible things to other people and society can't have that. But I don't think criminal, mentally ill, evil, any of those terms are very useful in helping work on either society's or an individual's problems.

Evil is, for the most part, subjective.

I dunno evolution I guess.

Interesting article Pachyderm. Before I start - I first want to say that not all psychopaths end up killing someone or committing evil deeds. Since there is one member here who is honest about his diagnosis, I don't want to include or insult all psychopaths - because some really try to function well in society and they are very misunderstood. It's not fair to categorize all psychopaths into one lump. I also don't think every person who was abused will end up killing, although it's possible a persons childhood experience, could result in committing crimes later in life.

For example Charles Manson is a psychopath but he also had a terrible childhood. Experts now know there's a genetic component - meaning it can be inherited. The last few years scientists discovered through brain scans, the brains of psychopaths are different than 'normal' brains. Their brains are lacking in the area responsible for empathy and other emotions. This is an interesting but sad discovery, that reinforces the belief, there's no successful treatment or rehabilitation - only containing people who commit crimes. So a person can be born a psychopath - but I wonder if a child is abused and very deprived - could this also affect proper brain developement?

Not all killers are psychopaths. Where does evil come from? Some psychopaths are evil but evil occurs outside this group and I don't know where it comes from. Some people say we all have some potential to be evil, but I don't know if it's true. I think teaching empathy from a very young age, helps them become good members of society. I think people who commit evil deeds, do have souls - just evil souls. Very interesting topic.

Here's a link about the brain scans:
http://www.technologyreview.com/biotech/18573/?a=f

As I said, this was one psychologist's outlook on the matter. He also does say:

"The thing is, different individuals do have different temperaments certainly, and so there can be temperamental differences. And these differences influence how a child or an adolescent deals with these kinds of situations and how they cope with it."

I dont think Hitler was evil with no soul. If I thought just that about him then that would mean I am not a whole humanbeing that can connect with all aspects of what it is to be human and sometimes being human isn't all sweetness and good. Now some may think I am sticking up for Hitler, but thats not what I am saying, I am saying I can understand what drove him to make choices he did. If we think for a moment that we as humans are not capable of such horrors then thats dangerous, I know sometimes in the past I cussed at someone in traffic profoundly, and in that second I wanted them dead!. I'm aware of this about myself now and that makes it easier to manage, some have such a distarious early life that their personality are so split that they can kill with one and not blink an eye lid whilst praying with the other. Infact a lot of that does go on in everyday life, Hitler was just an extreme. I can Identify with the horror of what he did, and also I can identify with the anger and self denial within him, that makes me whole, its not a justification. The ablity to do Evil things is in us all.

I wish I could thank you for each line. I particularly like the distinction you made in the last line. I reject the idea that any person is evil though I do believe that each of us can do evil things depending upon circumstance.

I belive that some of it does come from childhood trauma. I don't know if it is "evil" or just a psycological defect. And when you look at someone like Manson, you can't help but wonder what would have came of him had he not been abandoned and severly neglected by his mother. You can look at that case and say "well yeah it makes sense he would grow up to be a lunitic." But what about Dahmer? He had a fairly normal childhood. His parents were divorced but there was never any talk of abuse or neglect fomr them, mabye percieved neglect on his part but nothing bad. Yet he still did what he did. I think it's a 50/50 thing. It all depends on the person who was abused or neglected as a child. And certain brain function affects the outcome also. It's just really hard to say.

Evil comes from many places but one thing I am sure of, in order for evil to THRIVE, all it takes is for good men to do nothing.

Okay, so the ability to do evil is in us all. And no doubt history is replete with persons capable of horrendous acts. Mao, Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, and Kim Il Sung to name a few. These men did evil deeds with or without a soul.

• 1. evil, immorality, wickedness, iniquity -- (morally objectionable behavior)
• 2. evil -- (that which causes harm or destruction or misfortune; ``the evil that men do lives after them; the good is oft interred with their bones'' - Shakespeare)
• 3. evil, evilness -- (the quality of being morally wrong in principle or practice; ``attempts to explain the origin of evil in the world'' )

There is a mighty big difference between having the capacity to do evil and being so morally execrable as to carry out the wholesale slaughter of millions. Mao is estimated to have killed 70 million during his tenure. Stalin did away with approximately 20 million while noting: "One death is a tragedy; one million is a statistic."
How does understanding vitiate the heinous crimes these flagitious monsters perpetrated? How many of the dead will rise again because of understanding? How does making yourself whole mollify the killing of millions anything other than evil?

You say you are not sticking up for Hitler and there is no justification for what he did. But because you understand there is the ability to do evil in all of us, Hitler is not evil.

I respectfully disagree.

Ygrec's post here really hit home with me. I had just posted a thread about learning that my former stalker was dead. I knew his mother also, since they lived in my neighborhood, and there was a definite connection between the outcome of the individual I knew and the mother. Like Y's brother, this man also never held a job in his life, and was a major addict. In the years past my experience with this man, who tried to kill me, I've thought of him as "evil," primarily because I observed him manipulating so many people to fulfill his needs. Labels like "sociopath," "narcissist," but probably most accurate "psychopath." I even suspect he had committed murder.

I appreciated LynnP's mention of Manson. There are many Mansons out there, many under the radar. I no longer go around looking for evil in persons, but having past exp with someone who could be categorized as evil, I'm much more discerning.

Understanding is the only way of making things better in the future. It will not help people in the past, but without better comprehending what makes people work, you will not be able to change the future. That's how I see it, anyway.

I did not disagree with you.

I think this is where it originated. He is one evil dude.

A sociopath is more likely to kill than a psychopath. The word evil is a misused word tying Eve-ill to all things the opposite of good. In other words again it is a woman who wears the mantle of "Evil" meaning Eve like to refer to anything other than goodness because of that dratted book that story, the tale that was borrowed from the mesoptanians which was used umpteen times as a creation theory. In truth it was another attempt at tearing women down from any place of honour if it was other than under a mans sandal as his housekeeper, cook and baby factory. It was to do with ensuring male supremacy during biblical times (you may have gathered that this annoys me some).

But the behaviour, the act of being the opposite to anything good comes from within. There are millionaires who commit gross acts just as there are people from lower socioeconomic backgrounds. I do believe that abberant thought is developed not in perception but in conceptious thought

I believe it is an abberation that happens in the minds of many, and most of them are never caught for their deeds. There are the recorded serial killers but when you look at just how many people there are in the world and how many murders, there are not enough caught to explain the crimes.

Though there are many who would disagree, and that is their right

Cheers,

Rhia

evil acts comes from the lack of empathy and compassion, in the same way that shadow is produced only from the lack of light.

Ah, the great debate, "nature or nurture?" Who to say what cause psychopathy? All I know is my younger brother was a psychopath and me and my sister didn't turn out that way. So again I ask is it nature or nuture? I do know we were raised in the same way by the same parents.

from a young one. a lack of concern for others aka selfishness. some people are selfish with abusive backgrounds, some people are selfish without abusive backgrounds. some people are selfish with crappy genetics, some aren't. personal responsibility is another factor in the equation that is easily overlooked these days. it may be much more difficult for some people to treat others well considering their horrible backgrounds and genetics but it doesn't give them a pass. they are still responsible for their actions unless they are mentally/psychologically disabled. sometimes when we give ourselves over to certain behaviors (rage, drugs, alcohol, etc.) for long enough we become enslaved to them and have lost any sense of control over them. then, one is really in trouble. those weaknesses can be inherited too like with alcoholism but they are a part and not the whole cause for immoral behavior. yes, i think there are immoral behaviors...murder, stealing, and whatnot.

just my 2 cents.

It may appear siblings are raised the same way, but there are different dimensions that do go on consciously and unconsciously, we relate to people in different ways. We all know about the scapegoat within a family for example, not saying this was in your family, but its short sighted to just believe "this was so".

I relate to all 3 of my children differently, and I expect some unconscious relating and transference has gone on, to ask them how I appear to them I hope to get 3 different stories, if they all spoke the same story of had the same experience I'd feel something isn't right. We must allow others to have their truth and that truth may feel uncomfortable at times if it challenges what we feel comfortable believing ie, I had this experiecing growing up and you must have it too.

This was a very good post and I agree with most of it. The only part I was confused about, was the 1st line "I don't think Hitler was evil with no soul". When I 1st read it, I interpretted it as "he was evil with a soul". Then I started doubting my interpretation and became confused. So would you mind explaining - do you think Hitler was evil??? I and most think he was.

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I think there are people who are very evil and they have 0 empathy and don't care about the suffering of their victims. To them dismembering a person is no different than carving a turkey. People who hunt and kill children are evil.

Lynn, No I don't think he was evil, but he did horrific things that we call evil because if we do that it puts space between us nd those that do horrific things. We can say, oh Im not evil, he was evil and that way distance ourselves from their shadow sides. These are just my feelings on the topic of evil, I can't just label something and sit comfy with it and leave it as that. But thats just me.

I have a difficult time labelling anyone evil no matter how horrific their actions. Even Hitler and any of the others mentioned as evil or having done evil acts had people in their lives who loved them. I think we are all multi-dimensional human being, each capable of doing good and evil. Born to survive. Conditioned how to survive. The journey determines the process and outcomes. Biology and genetics may factor in but circumstances and conditions can over ride either of those.

It seems to me one would have to be born evil in order to be an evil person. I can't imagine any baby is born evil. As we grow up we make choices to do harm or to not do harm. We control our choices but we are influenced to one degree or another by factors they may sometimes be, or at least feel outside our control. It is a matter of degree that may mark the line over into what people consider 'evil'.