[chaosrob]

I do not know how many people may experience this so it will be helpful if I can get some feedback.

Now there are times when I will do something for someone thinking that I am doing it for one reason. But afterwords I realize that I may have done it out of a much more selfish reasons.

I figure it could be several things. It's possible that I just loathe myself so much that I do not want to allow myself to feel good about helping others out.

It's possible that I just over analyze everything and given my pessimistic nature see the possible bad easier than the good.

I may actually do things that appear to be out of kindness but am actually using the opportunity to manipulate the emotions of the other person.

Granted for the most part I do actually help people. I find that when something mutually benefits both parties that life is generally easier. Of course there are times where I seem to end up ahead even if things do not work according to plan.

Does anyone else ever experience things like this where they are unsure whether they can trust their own reasoning behind a given situation?

[ECHOES]

Yes. I just talked about it in therapy last week. I can see more than one angle/motivation/interpretation, and when that happens I just don't know which one is or which ones are true.

[Rhiannonsmoon]

Hello chaosrob,

This is an interesting thread. There are not many people who will observe their motives openly like this so Kudos to you for doing so.

I know that there are times when I do things, even though I know I am helping someone, that I know I am doing it for 2 reasons not only 1; the important thing is which reason comes first... The possible manipulation of someone is something we all do, but rarely admit to.

It's like delivering a cake in the hope that you will receive a piece of it.

I think this is part of human nature chaosrob; but it is a part of human nature that people prefer to ignore rather than take note of and consciously change...

Thanks for the thread,

Rhiannon

[Perna]

I don't think there are "pure" reasons for doing anything. If we think we are doing something for one reason, that's just the reason we have decided to concentrate on, see, "want" for ourselves.

When we decide to help someone else, we could stop first and think about all the various reasons we are doing it or what it is possible to get out of it but usually we don't want or need to at that time; if we think too much, nothing gets done, we get tangled up in the thinking!

I hear you saying you feel bad that you get anything out of helping someone else when you want to help someone else, but why shouldn't you get some personal satisfaction from it? It's your life and you have to do things that help that life move forward, that's your job. If you are a college guy taking a summer job helping people move and love that you can take your shirt off and get a good tan and build strong muscles; there's nothing wrong there! That's all good! As long as you do the "helping people move" part to the best of your abilities; everyone gets what helps them, the other people and you, for yourself.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/basics/altruism

[fearfulfrog]

I have questioned my self to almost insanity( it wasn't a long trip) about issues like this. I have come to the conclusion- whatever the other person SAW (the action) is up to them; how they INTERPRET it is also up to them- why chew up my insides with WHY I did something- my motivation doesn't matter to someone else if the end result is help when they need it, support or encouragement.

Having depression for a long time I learned to do things not because that I wanted to or was doing it selflessly, but rather because it what I could do at that time!

My questions of motivation go in a journal and just stay there- if i leave them in my head it just messes me up with trying to do the next right thing!

[garden]

Agree with Byz. Help is given and offered as we see and understand someone needs help. That person may not see it that way and may not be ready or in the spirit to receive it.

[FooZe]

Originally Posted by chaosrob

Does anyone else ever experience things like this where they are unsure whether they can trust their own reasoning behind a given situation?

Well, sort of. I used to worry a lot about whether or not I could trust my own reasoning. By now, though, I'm satisfied that I can make it come out any way I want so there's nothing to trust -- or to worry about.

For an illustration: some years ago I used to keep my checkbook in the glove compartment of my car while I was working. After work I'd sometimes drive over to the bank and cash a check. On one of these trips, just as I finished parking the car I said to myself, "Oops, I almost forgot my checkbook!" -- one way of reasoning about it.

About a second later I realized that I hadn't forgotten -- I'd thought of it exactly when I needed it and could do something about it, not while I was still driving. Another way of reasoning about the same thing. According to the first way, I was doomed to get all the way inside the bank without my checkbook and have to come back for it unless I obsessed about it all the way to the bank: "Don't forget the checkbook, don't forget the checkbook, don't forget the checkbook!" According to the second way, any obsessing was for nothing and all I had to do was remember it when I actually needed it. Contradictory results -- and my choice of which one to go with.

For the most part, I trust my thought processes involving things I am able to control. Mental illness and isolation work to make trusting more difficult. Adding assumptions to situations I cannot control is problematical. Still, that problem may be allayed by considering alternatives.

Ultimately, a dedication to preparation helps with decisions. Having been a lawyer always brings out the devil's advocate and worst cases scenarios. Unfortunately, even a good decision does not ensure a good result, if there is no follow through.

[Ygrec23]

Originally Posted by chaosrob

I do not know how many people may experience this so it will be helpful if I can get some feedback.

Now there are times when I will do something for someone thinking that I am doing it for one reason. But afterwords I realize that I may have done it out of a much more selfish reasons.

I figure it could be several things. It's possible that I just loathe myself so much that I do not want to allow myself to feel good about helping others out.

It's possible that I just over analyze everything and given my pessimistic nature see the possible bad easier than the good.

I may actually do things that appear to be out of kindness but am actually using the opportunity to manipulate the emotions of the other person.

Granted for the most part I do actually help people. I find that when something mutually benefits both parties that life is generally easier. Of course there are times where I seem to end up ahead even if things do not work according to plan.

Does anyone else ever experience things like this where they are unsure whether they can trust their own reasoning behind a given situation?

Sure. I don't trust my own reasoning around the corner. Let it get out of sight and it takes off into all kinds of nonsense. Reasoning is a highly overrated attribute of humanity. As you say, most of what we do is for ourselves. BUT THAT DOESN'T STOP IT FROM BEING GOOD FOR OTHERS! I like being here on PC. Not even half of that liking is because of the help rendered to me here by others. The majority is because of the opportunities it gives me to help others in pain. It makes me feel good to help them feel good. What's wrong with that? I have the idea (could be right, could be wrong) that people from some religious traditions believe totally in (what can I call it) COMPLETE altruism. PURE altruism. Altruism absolutely unsullied by any speck of self-help. There is no such thing. In REAL human life, doing good to others AT THE VERY LEAST feels good. And feeling good is something you do for yourself. You can't get away from that. That's the way human beings (who evolved that way) work and operate. Yes, you can do good to others. Lots of good. At great cost to yourself. Many people do. Look in detail at people who spend their lives around the world working for organizations that pay them a pittance but permit them to help others. But they LIKE what they're doing! You can't get away from that. And that's a "self" satisfaction. You can do lots of good to or for others, but you can't do it without feeling somehow satisfied or happy about it yourself.

Hope this helped you somehow. Take care.