[sunrise]

My mother described to me some recent "hallucinations" that she has been having--I'm not sure that is the correct word. They only occur at night when she is in bed. They often awaken her in the middle of the night. I'm wondering if they are dreams rather than occurring when she is awake? During the day she does not have them. A common one is that she is awakened when she hears someone knocking on her bedroom window, calling either her name or "help." Recently she has begun seeing a person in her bedroom in the dark. The other night she said a "gnome" was walking in her room and came up to the side of her bed and covered her with a blanket. She thought it was a gnome, but in the darkness, she felt the gnome's face and it had the face of her husband. So then she thought it must be her husband walking around the room on his knees and she thought this was strange. My father denies he covered her up or was walking on his knees. He reminded her that many years before she used to think there was a neighbor man standing outside the bedroom on the lawn, smoking cigarettes. My mom said she could smell the cigarettes and it would make her so mad that he was smoking on their property. In the morning she would go out to the lawn and look for cigarette butts.

My mother realizes that a gnome could not be walking around her bedroom. I think it is probably dreams. They seem real to her. She takes citalopram for mild depression/anxiety and to help her gain weight. Recently, her doctor added bupropion to that because my mother complained of feeling tired. My mother wonders if she could be having these hallucinations because of the bupropion. I know that some psych meds do cause more vivid dreaming. Could that be what is going on?

For context--my mother is 86 and has shown cognitive decline in the last couple of years. Her memory is not good anymore and she doesn't think as clearly as she used to. I guess she probably has early dementia, so I wonder if these "hallucinations" could be one more symptom of dementia? She is also under a lot of stress as she is the main caretaker of my father, 88, whose health is not great. He is on dialysis and goes back and forth on whether he should just end his life (by stopping dialysis). They both still live independently and can do their ADLs. My mother still drives. They both have had falls in the last year.

I'm not sure what I am asking. Are these "hallucinations" a cause for concern? Just dreams? Are they a part of dementia? Could they be due to the bupropion? Due to stress? Any insights are appreciated.

[shezbut]

Wow Sunrise,

That is quite a description ~ nice to have a better understanding of what your mom is experiencing. The elderly are more likely (than general "regular" adults) to experience possible side effects of medications. BUT... I really think that your mom should see her doctor.

Tough to say whether or not your mom is hallucinating or simply dreaming vividly. I would say that these events are not part of dementia, unless she stays in that state of mind while awake. For example, seeing things that aren't there or talking with people that no one else can see or hear. Medications can certainly cause all different types of effects with people, that happens all of the time. That's why it's best for your mom to work closely with her doctor about these effects that she's been experiencing lately. I doubt that the entire cause is stress, though it definitely contributes.

Have you looked into getting some emotional and physical assistance for your parents through a local elderly network? Depression is extremely common with elderly, especially those who still remain independent. While they value and hold tight onto independence, that doesn't mean that a hand coming in to help with minor things or play games and talk wouldn't be a very helpful addition to their lives. Maybe a couple of hours a week would make their lives more happy, less stressful, and fulfilling.

Something to think about anyway. I'm a volunteer visitor with elderly and disabled ~ it makes both me and them feel better. Kind of win/win. I can also let nurses and/or specific family members know if they need more help than I can give. And that's a relief for all of us ~~ which would be you in this situation. ((hugs)) to you!

[Rhiannonsmoon]

Hello sunrise,

I honestly believe that rather than asking for answers here you should be talking to the family doctor. At her age and with the different symptomology not really pointing to anything in particular she may need cognitive testing to rule out or ascertain a form of dementia or pseudo dementia which can be caused by alcohol or medication. There is also the possibility that it could be psychotic episodes which have happened many years apart.

If she is going down hill and she has your father to care for then something needs to be done. The "dreams" could also possibly be Hallucinatory Sleep Disorder. This has been known to occur with some medications, but also without any medication. Medications used currently to treat HSP are Klonopin, Vallium, Tofranil, St Johns Wart, and others are being lab tested for suitability.

I would speak to her doctor with her there and ask if this is a possible side effect of one of the medications, or by a combination of her medications. If it has been a long time between episodes it could well be the medication.

Good luck with it and I hope your mother is fine.

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by shezbut

Have you looked into getting some emotional and physical assistance for your parents through a local elderly network?

No, I have never heard of elder networks. Shezbut, could you tell me more about what they are and where I would find them? Are they run from hospitals, the community, or where? What do they do? Can I look them up in the phone book or on the Internet? (under "elder network"?) I would very much like to identify sources of support for my parents but don't know what is out there. Thank you, shezbut, for any information you can give (and what you already have given)--much appreciated.

Recently I have been trying to see if a nurse could come to their home once every couple of weeks to check on them. But this is tough going. I am not getting to square one--meeting with resistance from my parents. They are just so confused about their health insurance and what coverage they have. I tried to call the place they go for medical care just to get the correct phone number for them to call to query about nursing and even this was met with resistance from the people on the phone due to HIPAA. All I wanted was a phone number my parents could call for help, instead of their having to wade through endless phone trees, busy signals, voice mails, etc. I just wanted a direct phone number so they could make one call and ask their questions. That's not an invasion of privacy, is it, to ask for a phone number?

Originally Posted by Rhiannonsmom

I honestly believe that rather than asking for answers here you should be talking to the family doctor.

I have tried that, but due to HIPAA I am not allowed to talk to my parents' doctors. Since you live in Australia, you may not be familiar with HIPAA, but it is a safeguard of patients' rights and privacy and it is very strict--no way around it. My parents will not give me permission to accompany them to doctors' appointments either. Even my mother would like to attend my father's appointments, to get more information on his many health problems, but he won't allow that.

So I am pursuing the idea of getting nursing help. That might be something I could "buy" for them out of my pocket if they won't give me information about their insurance. It's slow going, though. Another thing I am trying to do is get a case manager assigned to them, but this is hard too, due to the same HIPAA problem.

When my mother told me about the "hallucinations" I urged her to tell her doctor, in particular to tell the doctor who prescribed the bupropion. She said she will tell him at the next appointment. I suggested she call right away and let him know, as he would want to know if she was having side effects. But she will not. She doesn't want to "bother" her doctor with this and says she will wait until she sees him for something else.

In the meantime if someone here can shed any light on any of this, share your own experiences, or suggest resources, it is much appreciated. Thanks.

[ECHOES]

Sunny,
You may know this, but if your mom advises her doctor in writing that he can discuss her medical care with you, you would be able to talk to him directly.

My grandmother suffered from dimentia, although she was not one to go to doctors at all. She would agree to see the ophthalmologist for glaucoma but that's all.
She did hear things and thought her neighbors could 'broadcast' into her house. She accumulated reels of tapes, "evidence" for the police that she would play for them: they contained nothing but the static noise of the machine used to record.
This started not too long after her husband passed away. She was very afraid to be alone, but would not move from the house.

Later she was convinced that people on TV could see and hear her. (This one is cute) One night I arranged a babysitter for after work and took dinner out to her place. She liked to set up a card table in the living room, so that's where we ate. Shortly after starting, she turned around and turned off the TV and I asked why. I thought we were both watching the news. "Well, it would be rude!" she said. I asked her what would be rude? "It would be rude to eat in front of him!". She could not be swayed and went on to say that Vanna White could see her too. "Why else would she wave?!".
And so, when Vanna waved, Grandma waved back

[madisgram]

a thought-have you googled the side affects that may come with her meds?

[Princess_Obsidian]

Greetings,

A medical professional could best answer your question, though, from my understanding, stressing over anykind of hallucination/delusion, only promotes more of them to come, and/or become more severe.

I was told by my psychologist to pretend my hallucinations/delusions were as if I am dreaming awake, and to therefore, dismiss them. After all, mentally ill, or not, has crazy dreams, at least, every once and awhile, though, they are simply the mind being creative with the leftover, possibly unresolved thoughts bouncing around in our head.

Nonetheless, as I mentioned before, medical professional, could help you get to the underlying cause of your hallucinations and, I have no doubt, help you efficiently rid of them.

Best of luck to you!

Have a good one.

[pegasus]

((((((((( sunrise ))))))))))

Of course you can ask for help here!

Here is a link to side effects of bupropion http://mental-health.emedtv.com/bupr...e-effects.html

But it could be the early stages of dementia also. http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Dementi.../Symptoms.aspx

Though sometimes it can be part of depression. http://helpguide.org/mental/depression_elderly.htm

Here in the UK you can contact your GP with worries or contact Social Services. Both your parents are at an age where they should be able to get a little extra help to make their life more enjoyable. I hope the USA has a similar system with home help or personal care at home.

[bebop]

your mom could give your dr permission to talk about her health to you. All of my dad's drs talk to me about him. he is 81. I do however go to all his appts with him but they also talk to me privately

[sabby]

I feel for you right now. I went through similar issues with my aunt a few years ago. The "older" generation have real difficulties going to the doctors or calling the doctor about their health problems. This comes from being raised during the depression and lean years after the depression. Money was extremely tight and you didn't go to the doctor unless it was life threatening.

I had quite a fight on my hands about getting my aunt to go for a physical. Her regular doctor had passed on a number of years earlier and according to my aunt, all the files were lost so she had nothing to go to another doctor with (heck of an excuse LOL). It took me months and months to get her to go because she had a bad case of bronchitis and breathing problems.

Aunty also had some hallucinations that got quite a bit worse as time went on. For my aunt it definitely was a combination of dementia and meds. She used to think she could hear the neighbors music playing all night long. She heard the drums most of all she said (wondered if she was hearing her heart beating in her ears???). She used to ask me in the middle of the night if I could hear it too? Of course, it was quiet, no music playing and the neighbors house was pitch black.

Aunty used to stand at the bathroom window and watch the planes landing and taking off from a nearby airport. She also watched for what she called "hoodlums" who would be climbing the metal fence surrounding a distribution plant across the street from her. The area was well lit, they had guard dogs there and no one was getting over the fence and surviving without making a lot of noise and being in a lot of hurt LOL. She swore she used to see them jumping the fence back and forth all the time. Believe me, it wasn't happening.

When she finally had to go to a nursing home (she refused to let me get help for her to be safe in her home), it didn't take long until her dementia worsened and she claimed that the nursing home had bugged all the rooms and could listen in on her conversations. She also believed that when she didn't finish her lunch plate that it was taken away and given back to her to finish at supper. Of course, that was not true either.

It's such a difficult situation when the parents won't let the children be involved with their healthcare or let them know their health status. It can be so frustrating. Sometimes I think they themselves don't want to know so if they can keep it secret, then they don't have to talk about it and it doesn't exist.

I don't know where you live, but I believe that most states have a department concerning the elderly, their care and if they are being abused. That may be the place to start in looking for information and services available. You don't have to have permission from your parents to talk to the services to research what's available.

I wish you well!


sabby

[Rhiannonsmoon]

I'm very sorry

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by madisgram

a thought-have you googled the side affects that may come with her meds?

Excellent suggestion. Thank you! I found a number of instances of associations of hallucinations with bupropion. It is not common but not unheard of. It happens more with an overdose, but sometimes at low doses too. Auditory, tactile, and visual hallucinations have all been reported. I am going to keep encouraging my mother to tell her doctor about what she is experiencing.

Originally Posted by Princess Obsidian

from my understanding, stressing over any kind of hallucination/delusion, only promotes more of them to come, and/or become more severe.

Interesting. Thanks for that information. I'll try not to harp on this too much with my mom, so as not to make things worse. I'll just continue reminding her to bring this up with her doctor next time.

ECHOES and Sabby, thanks for sharing your experiences with your grandmother and aunt, and thanks for your understanding.

Originally Posted by Sabby

I don't know where you live, but I believe that most states have a department concerning the elderly, their care and if they are being abused. That may be the place to start in looking for information and services available. You don't have to have permission from your parents to talk to the services to research what's available.

Thanks, sabby. I will check that out. That info is really helpful to me, as I didn't know that kind of thing existed. I did look for elder networks, as shezbut suggested, and found several in the area that provide volunteers for companionship or helping drive to appointments, take the garbage out, etc. I think the kind of aid my parents could use most right now is occasional visits from a nurse (for reasons I haven't explained here). Not a nursing assistant to help with ADLs but an actual nurse who can answer health questions and deal with some of their concerns.

Pegasus, thanks for those links. I noticed one thing one of your links mentioned for a possible bupropion side effect was confusion. I do think my mother has been more confused since beginning the bupropion....

Originally Posted by bebop

your mom could give your dr permission to talk about her health to you

I will offer this to her again. It's so hard. I like to enjoy my visits and phone calls with my parents. I don't like to have to keep nagging them about stuff like this--can I go to your appointments with you? can I have your permission to speak to your doctor? etc. I have asked, they have said no. Several times.

I have really gotten a lot of great info from you all. Thank you!

[shezbut]

I did look for elder networks, as shezbut suggested, and found several in the area that provide volunteers for companionship or helping drive to appointments, take the garbage out, etc. I think the kind of aid my parents could use most right now is occasional visits from a nurse (for reasons I haven't explained here). Not a nursing assistant to help with ADLs but an actual nurse who can answer health questions and deal with some of their concerns.

Hi Sunrise,

I'm glad that you found the services that I was referring to in my post ~ I don't get on the computer as often as I used to. The Elder network, which covers Rochester, also does provide CNA's. RN's are very busy and cost a lot of $! RN's do work for nursing facilities that come to visit those who need help, but they aren't staying an hour per day. Instead, they're around for maybe 15 minutes a couple of times per week. RN's and LPN's are very helpful to have, but they are typically a piece of the puzzle.

You can get an RN to help them with medications, listing diet instructions, etc. However, a CNA would be the helper to come in and make sure the instructions are being followed. The companionship asisstants are there to sit back and talk; play games; help read; go for walks; all of those kinds of things. They're friends with the customer/patient.

If you have specific q's or concerns, you're welcome to IM me. I am disabled myself, and have a visisting nurse, so I have a lot of experience in this area.