Does Academic Success Measure Intelligence?

The relationship between academic performance and intelligence has always been an interest of mine. Nearly all of my life I have believed that what my academic scores were defined not only how intelligent I was but also how worthy I was and how successful I would be in life.

When I was in elementary school I failed almost everything and was told that I would likely never be successful in life and that I was retarded. I used to be beaten by my dad for my grades and rushed out of the school via ambulance for seizures due to excessive levels of stress from abusive teachers.

But when I entered high school and was enrolled in a special education program specifically for those with autism spectrum disorders, mostly Asperger’s Syndrome, my scores improved dramatically with the support. I was an honors student every year and won numerous awards in martial arts, geography, science, philosophy, English, etc. I passed a final math exam with a grade of 102% and graduated advanced philosophy with a 98% grade.

I started university in 2010 - everything spiraled downhill. Lost all the disability support I had previously and was expected to ‘conform’ to a different standard. After several attempts with both online and campus universities, I’ve decided that I don’t want to attend a university henceforth.

Others on PsychCentral and in real life have complimented me about my knowledge on certain subjects and intelligence. Recently, when the police brought me home from the hospital, the officer told me I was the smartest person he’s ever known, and my best friend has said that I am an “encyclopedia” and that I am “inhumanely smart” when it comes to my areas of expertise.

I’ve spent my entire life believing that I am an incompetent, stupid, worthless failure that can’t achieve anything, but others so often tell me I am smart, and I am conflicted with constant struggles in school, especially universities, and my alleged intelligence.

Which brings me back to the main concerns I have - Does academic success measure the intelligence of a person? What is the relationship between academic scores and intelligence? Can I be smart and not do well in university?

Mr. V, you're already more intelligent AND more interesting than 99% of the folks I went to college with! The university system, like any institution, is designed by, and targeted towards a pretty narrow slice of society. My husband has PTSD and unspecified "learning disorders." (by the way: that's a crap term...labeling different learning techniques as a "disorder"-another move by the ever-threatened Norms ) and he had to put, on average, 4 times the effort and time in than his fellow "non-disordered" students...just to scrape by. We had the luck of attending a school that truly stood behind its claims of offering extra assistance to those who needed it. Professors recognized his sincere intent and dedication, and he received support and encouragement when put in the overwhelming academic scenarios you have also been through. Without the support of the DRC, professors, and ME, he believes he never would have graduated. And heck, now he has a degree and the only jobs he can get are garden work and groceries
I think, if only because the economy is so $h!++¥, people are starting to accept that not everyone HAS to go to college...because more and more people flat-out can't afford to anyways...and when we do get our degrees, we have a comatose job market and MASSIVE DEBT to look forward to...
Define your intelligence by your own standards and the standards of the people who care about you...those are the ones that know best!

Oh, God, definitely not. Academic success is about fitting into a system, not about being smart. It's probably even harder for smart people because they realize just what a waste of time it is. If you keep your head down, follow the rules, and turn in the assignments, you'll do well. What does that actually teach us? Thinking? Not really. It teaches us to sit down for long periods of time and answer to a boss for symbolic compensation. Basically, it's not about learning: it's about teaching us to be ready for the corporate world.

It show prevalence I think.

It takes an intelligent person to do extremely well in an academic setting, but not doing well in an academic setting does not mean the opposite of intelligence.

Does it? Obviously not always. Can it? Definitely.
Are you familiar with the term "islands of genius" or the real life "Rain Man?"
"...memorized over 6000 books and has "encyclopedic knowledge" of geography, music, literature, history, sports and nine other areas of expertise. He can name all the US area codes and major city zip codes. He has also memorized the maps in the front of telephone books and can tell you precisely how to get from one US city to another, and then how to get around in that city street by street. He also has calendar-calculating abilities and, more recently, rather advanced musical talent has surfaced. Of unique interest is his ability to read extremely rapidly, simultaneously scanning one page with the left eye and the other page with the right eye."
Obviously he has a godlike memory. Is he intelligent? Look at some examples of very intelligent people with little to no college credits. Einstein? Jobs? Edison? Okay Edison's intelligence is debatable
I consider you intelligent for what that's worth

Well, once you get pass High School it's not merely about memorizing stuff, but about being able to think and defend your thinking and come up with new concepts.

The two don't correlate. And I say that while working on two Master's degrees. Academia is a very specific format of teaching and testing and politics (yes, even at the student level: ever had to write about a topic you're not interested in as though it was FASCINATING?). I've worked with Mensa members who barely graduated high school. You can be smart and good at school or smart and bad at school, but the ability to fit yourself into the student paradigm is no indicator of intelligence.

Also, once you do well or poorly in school, the label becomes systemic and that determines future scholastic expectations and opportunities. The system has a lot of problems, as well as merits.

here where I live and work academics dont make up the sum of someones intelligence and a person can have a genius IQ and still flunk out/ not do well in college.

example many genius's learn to not do good in school so that they can fit in, many with high IQ's party or just slack off in their college days... theres so many people with low to average IQ's today in college, they struggle through studies and attending classes and make the grades..

my point is college grades dont make up a persons IQ,

here where I live and work an IQ is someones personality, academics and life experiences..which is why when psychiatrists around here when asked to do IQ testing they not only do academic tests, they also spend time talking with the person, then do mental tests, academic tests and tests that include things like common every day experience type stuff.

No I don't think academic success measures ones intelligence. I know the details of your childhood from others things you've written. You were so intimidated/abused by your father, when you didn't do well or didn't understand something - this started a pattern of associating stress with learning. Unfortunately your family didn't know you were Autistic with Aspergers. Thank God you finally got the right help and then you blossomed. You were actually a diamond in the rough and just needed to find your niche.

I think your past interfered with your ability to learn in university and the university should offer help to students who need accommodation - there are some good universities that nurture students like this. Its also known, some with Autism have extraordinary talents and you have this. Yes you are very smart and you also write well. I know you also struggle with the need to be perfect and that's from your father. Try to resist this, since you don't want to impose what your father did - you're free now, although I know its not easy to relearn when we weren't shown better. You were a child who needed help, but that doesn't mean you weren't smart. Accent your positives and you're lucky to have these talents. You're a survivor and I want you to believe in yourself.

No academic success does not measure intelligence. I'm a psychology student - this semester I'm taking experimental psych and have to do a research study. My partner and I had to book a room for the study. She couldn't figure out how to time 3-45 minute studies with 30 minutes in between each study for set up in the allotted time we had. I sat down and banged it out in about 8 seconds. She has a 4.0 GPA, making straight A's in everything, I struggle to stay above 3.0 with B's and C's in my classes. Do I feel less intelligent than her? No, not at all. I have common sense, which she lacks big time. I'm also 58 to her 22 and I think life experience also has a lot to do with intelligence.

I think there are multiple intelligence:

http://skyview.vansd.org/lschmidt/Pr...telligence.htm

and because you are really good in one area does not mean you are good in others. Intelligence is a bit of an aptitude and school work is mostly just interest/applying one's self and literal learning how to do things in a way our teacher's/parents want. It sounds like you figured out what you wanted though and were able to learn what you want to learn for yourself, that's great! Keep working on what you want to work on.

Yes and no. It depends on what you are studying and how the program is set up. Does the class emphasize problem solving skills and ingenuity or route memorization and hard work?

Also, juggling multiple classes requires study skills, organization skills, etc. that are not part of intelligence.

But being very intelligent can help you get by in high school or university if you are lacking in focus, study skills, organization skills, and discipline. For example, if you very intelligent, generally you may only need to read something once to understand it, whereas someone else may need to read it multiple times and ask a bunch of questions. So naturally the second person will require better study skills and planning to pass the course.

My adhd wasn't diagnosed until I was 14, and I truly believe the only way I made it through school up to that point was my high intelligence. I wasn't able to study or focus at all before I was diagnosed, but luckily I didn't need to study or focus in class. I just understood everything intuitively. Everything just seemed to make sense, or I could figure it out on my own. It's almost like I didn't need to be taught something to understand it. Of course, intelligence only carries you so far, and school gets harder the more you advance. By the time I was diagnosed with adhd, I really needed to be able to focus and study to keep up with school.

your success in a schooling system is a measure of... your success in that schooling system. we have an accepted system of education but that doesn't mean it is a good education system. people have strengths and interests far more diverse than one system can offer.

for some really interesting information about schooling in the usa, look up john taylor gatto. he was a teacher for 30 years and he now writes and gives lectures about the shortcomings of the education system and, more interestingly, sheds some light on WHY it is the way it is. hint: it has to do with power and control

My brother has 10 IQ points on me, and he sailed through school in all its forms, from 1st grade to finishing his university degree. So yea, it helps to be smart. Also he was driven by fear and had a good sense of discipline.

Me, I was OK in the lower grades, I learned with ease and there was no pressure, and I think I knew a lot before it was taught. Grade 7 to 9 should have been a lot harder, but I went to a really bad school and my class was really bad at most everything, so I got good grades because at least I learned a little. They needed me for statistics. I was an average student but scored higher. I didn't do homework, no discipline, and I hated the idea to be told what to do. The nerve they have to tell me what to put in MY brain, I thought. Truth is I couldn't learn unless I was focused and interested. The next two grades I really noticed when I tried to do be better because the teachers harassed me for not knowing my homework. I just couldn't....

Still, some stuff I learn with ease. It just sinks in. Some stuff my brain will reject, and I can't learn it even if I know it is good to have that knowledge. That goes for today as well, even being an adult.

Very uneven profile in learning and knowing. I'm told that is one of the hallmarks of Asperger's. Some people think I'm joking when I say I can't do math. Because I know some other subject... Sigh.

I'm actually very intelligent. When I had the WAIS I was told by my test psych that she had never tested anyone as intelligent as me. She seemed to think I was pretty much off the charts.

I used to see intelligence as my thing. Even if I really sucked at life, I had intelligence. Sometimes I could even apply it on things. These days I don't know. I don't value it as high. I realized the difference between me and my brother is that I don't try to conform. He probably wondered who he was for a long time. He can learn anything almost. I can't. But he has no creativity. He sees doing something in a very flat way, if it worked before it works now. Doesn't matter. I look for improvement. I don't try, I just always look at things and think how that could be done better. He has no artistic traits. I can make music, write, paint. I can think of being. Of how things are connected. I think things through deeply. He can't. Still he would beat me at any boardgame.

This was a quite long answer, but what I meant to say is, you can be really intelligent and suck at school.

The short answer is yes. You can be brilliant and not do well in university. Being successful in a university setting requires a set of skills that don't really have much to do with academic intelligence; but more with a sort of social intelligence.

I believe in multiple intelligences: having seen dancers dance, basketball stars play basketball, chefs cook, singers sing, and professors lecture about a multitude of subjects -- there are all kinds of mental giants in the world. And who is to say who is greater: the receptionist at the front desk, the poet or the painter or the engineer or the philosopher or the dancer or the boxer or the hockey star or the chess player or the physicist or the brain surgeon?

Or the loving mother or the kindergarten teacher or the guy who builds the smoothest, most beautiful roads I've ever had the privilege to drive on? If you haven't succeeded at university, out of all the problems I'd order, I'd put lack of raw intelligence last, last, last.

And out of all the proofs of intelligence I'd put a formal degree near last if not last on a list, too. You obviously have intelligence to spare. What you need is someone who is familiar with your unique set of challenges to help you find the best way to get the education you want and or need.

I cannot tell you where to go, but I hope someone can help you find the resources you need near where you live; whatever challenges you have faced in your previous experiences should be evaluated with how you are now to see how to best approach you achieving your goals. I'd start with a therapist if you have one.

I wish you could talk to my academic advisor; if she didn't know herself I think she'd know how to tell you how to proceed. So maybe an appointment with an advisor where you tried going to school would be a good start? I hope someone else can weigh in here.

Mr. Venomous,

Does academic success measure the intelligence of a person?

Absolutely not. See below for further explanation.

Can I be smart and not do well in university?

Of course one can be smart and not do well in university. The grading system is set up for average people who do not have challenges with social relationships, executive functioning, learning disabilities, ASDs, psychiatric illness etc... It is mostly based on time management and effective study skills. Abstract thinking, application and memory are also considered but to a much lesser degree. So, anybody with average intelligence is capable of A+ grades as long as they have it together.

The education system is meant to socialize us. Anybody who is different will struggle. At least that has been my experience. I found school pointless and boring. My marks in high school hovered around 65 to 70, well below my capabilities. The social aspect was unbearable and I quit because of it. People bullied me severely because I was different. Experiences like this can have a negative impact on academic performance.

I am surprised at the lack of disability support. The university I attend in Ontario has a great Asperger support program. Academic accommodations, social support and counseling are provided.

PS. You are such an eloquent writer.

Good advance,
Thanks

IMO, no, not always. I've always been an 'average performer' in education, probably on the lazy side if anything, when I've put work in I've always done rather well, but one thing about most academic success is that (unless you're a researcher or PhD student) you're mainly regurgitating information you've learned from lectures, textbooks and independent research. To do well at that, you either need a bit of talent at it or just need to work hard.

But not everyone gets the opportunity to go far in their education, so they may leave school with no / few qualifications but it doesn't mean they're thick. My mum left school at 15 to work (this was in 1970 when it was common) and has worked in mainly manual work all her life then got married, but she's really good at maths, art and computers and I'm sure if she got the opportunity she could've did well.

Hi mr. Venomous. It seems the supports you earlier had in place prior to university were successful. It seems a shame they disintegrated when you furthered your studies. University can be a pill to adapt to for many for many different reasons. The common thread is finding it difficult to adapt to a new structure, social environment, first time away from home etc.

For you perhaps it may have been doubly difficult with some previous issues with the aspergers for instance and the related difficulties stemming from. Do not many universities have something in place to aid students with perhaps specific requirements and needs? Were finances related to the univ. troubles as well? That would have been just another worry you didn't need.

I'm sorry to hear how you're feeling. I'm sure there are routes in pursuing options that may be quite fufilling and may provide the supports that were missing. Intelligence is not the issue with you. You have to realize that. Don't stop looking for a route or direction. A diff. university with maybe some appropriate supports in place may be an option at some point. Lots of routes open in the world....with ample time for you to think things over and plan anew.

Not sure I know your main concern question though. The 3 questions you post at the bottom have simple answers. Barring that we don't invite in the worlds foremost brainiac philosophers to view them.

1....no

2....academic scores and intelligence may be relative to one another usually. However this can be affected by situations and circumstances that hobble ones normal ability to effectively learn. * this is documented...s**t piling up on anyones natural abilities will compromise access and use of those abilities* Well,...documented anyway,...just not quite in those terms...*grin*

3....oh yes!

Absolutely.

This is an area of interest for me because like you I was called I dumb and an idiot by teachers in grade school. I had a 3rd grade teacher who told my mother I should be institutionalized that my being in class was bad for the other students. Why? I was severely hearing impaired and had a huge hearing aid in a halter that was worn on the outside of my clothing and was required to under go an hour of speech therapy everyday. Once I was in middle school and no longer singled out I did fine and was on the honor role. I went to college on a partial scholarship. But to this day I cannot spell. I have an absolute block---the harder I try to think of a word the more indecipherable my spelling becomes. Most people in our society judge people by their ability to spell. No matter what your point is, how good it is it will not matter. Yet like being able to do well in academics has nothing to do with intelligence, spelling has nothing to do with IQ. Your posts are proof of your intelligence, you have intellect beyond measure.

Look up the word "Intelligence", then look up the word, "Intellect". There's your answer.