[Myzen]

Hi folks,

When I recently went to see my doctor, she asked a couple of questions. One was, "Do you have money worries?"

This got me thinking. When we are ill, our lifestyles have to change, and we have to cut back, and that can mean a lot of cutting back!

Some people have mentioned here at PC that money is a real problem for us when we have a long term illness. I am wondering what it is like in different countries for people in long term illness; how do we make ends meet?

What are our survival mechanisms? In the UK there are 1.8 million people receiving state benefits on the grounds of ill health and medications are available on prescription through the NHS, but counselling and therapy are not available, and very expensive privately.

Myzen

[Myzen]

Hi folks,

When I recently went to see my doctor, she asked a couple of questions. One was, "Do you have money worries?"

This got me thinking. When we are ill, our lifestyles have to change, and we have to cut back, and that can mean a lot of cutting back!

Some people have mentioned here at PC that money is a real problem for us when we have a long term illness. I am wondering what it is like in different countries for people in long term illness; how do we make ends meet?

What are our survival mechanisms? In the UK there are 1.8 million people receiving state benefits on the grounds of ill health and medications are available on prescription through the NHS, but counselling and therapy are not available, and very expensive privately.

Myzen

[lenjan]

Myzen, you're up to date on all my experiences with the social services system in the U.S., so you know it's a disaster. It takes up to 6 months to get a disability determination, and their criteria are: 1) expected to die within 12 months or 2) expected to be completely unable to work for 12 months. They make it damn hard to get, and check all your medical records, etc., then have their own doctors make the determination.

As I've discovered over the last couple of days, Medicaid -- the full-benefit health insurance for the poor or disabled -- has its own problems. If you qualify -- and you have to be under a certain income level and not have many (or any) assets -- you can get everything you would ever want health-wise: free vision care, dental care, mental health care, very low cost prescriptions, etc. But it takes a month or so to establish eligibility, they want to see bank statements for several months back, etc. Plus, it's not necessarily transferable from state to state.

Lots of hoops to jump through in the U.S. for non-employer-funded health care! It sucks.

Candy

[lenjan]

Myzen, you're up to date on all my experiences with the social services system in the U.S., so you know it's a disaster. It takes up to 6 months to get a disability determination, and their criteria are: 1) expected to die within 12 months or 2) expected to be completely unable to work for 12 months. They make it damn hard to get, and check all your medical records, etc., then have their own doctors make the determination.

As I've discovered over the last couple of days, Medicaid -- the full-benefit health insurance for the poor or disabled -- has its own problems. If you qualify -- and you have to be under a certain income level and not have many (or any) assets -- you can get everything you would ever want health-wise: free vision care, dental care, mental health care, very low cost prescriptions, etc. But it takes a month or so to establish eligibility, they want to see bank statements for several months back, etc. Plus, it's not necessarily transferable from state to state.

Lots of hoops to jump through in the U.S. for non-employer-funded health care! It sucks.

Candy

[(JD)]

I am fortunate because I am covered under insurance. I come in contact with many ppl who didn't plan to be hurt and out of work and are really suffering for that. Of course, having to deal with a long term illness or injury is tough enough with the illness/injury itself. The mental health toll it takes is unbelieveable, even for me. There are few psychologists who are able (or willing) to take someone pro-bono.

I'm in the USA.

[(JD)]

I am fortunate because I am covered under insurance. I come in contact with many ppl who didn't plan to be hurt and out of work and are really suffering for that. Of course, having to deal with a long term illness or injury is tough enough with the illness/injury itself. The mental health toll it takes is unbelieveable, even for me. There are few psychologists who are able (or willing) to take someone pro-bono.

I'm in the USA.

[Lexicon78]

Well, I get SSI...a whopping $603 a month. Yay, me...not. Anyways, I'm not eligible for Medicaid so I am on welfare. I get some meds free...as the pharmacist explained it...if it's for your head or your heart there is no co-payment. Everything else has a small co-payment. But if you get something prescribed that you can get over the counter...like Zantac at an extremely high dosage...you have to get Zantac at a lower dosage. It really does suck. Anyways, I have food stamps, too. But ya know what? I can still barely make ends meet!

This month has been my best month, actually. I'm only overdrawn in the bank by $50-$75...no thanks to bank charges. Otherwise I'd only be overdrawn $10. Anyways, yeah it sucks.

Some places are covered by welfare, and some are not. I can't get free eyecare. There's a co-pay every time I go see an approved family doctor...that's only if they are approved, too...otherwise I pay the full amount. And then I have to find a dentist that's covered through welfare...which sucks since the doctors under welfare aren't very good at all. In the last county I was in I refused to see the dentist...the only dentist under welfare in the county. He had so many cases against him...he let an abcess go on someone and they died from it...so no...I refused to go to him! So what did I do? I paid full price for a better doctor.

It pretty much sucks, if you ask me.

[Lexicon78]

Well, I get SSI...a whopping $603 a month. Yay, me...not. Anyways, I'm not eligible for Medicaid so I am on welfare. I get some meds free...as the pharmacist explained it...if it's for your head or your heart there is no co-payment. Everything else has a small co-payment. But if you get something prescribed that you can get over the counter...like Zantac at an extremely high dosage...you have to get Zantac at a lower dosage. It really does suck. Anyways, I have food stamps, too. But ya know what? I can still barely make ends meet!

This month has been my best month, actually. I'm only overdrawn in the bank by $50-$75...no thanks to bank charges. Otherwise I'd only be overdrawn $10. Anyways, yeah it sucks.

Some places are covered by welfare, and some are not. I can't get free eyecare. There's a co-pay every time I go see an approved family doctor...that's only if they are approved, too...otherwise I pay the full amount. And then I have to find a dentist that's covered through welfare...which sucks since the doctors under welfare aren't very good at all. In the last county I was in I refused to see the dentist...the only dentist under welfare in the county. He had so many cases against him...he let an abcess go on someone and they died from it...so no...I refused to go to him! So what did I do? I paid full price for a better doctor.

It pretty much sucks, if you ask me.

[bebop]

but SSI isn't welfare. that is something totally different than ssi. but you can only get dental and eyecare if you are pregnant in most cases.

[bebop]

but SSI isn't welfare. that is something totally different than ssi. but you can only get dental and eyecare if you are pregnant in most cases.

currently trying to get on disability, EI or social assistance.

currently trying to get on disability, EI or social assistance.

[Myzen]

Hi Candy,

It sounds like there is a 'poverty trap' like there is here in the UK. If you have a low paying part time job, or some small savings, you don't qualify for all the benefits and miss out on healthcare.

Medicaid sounds pretty good. Our NHS isn't covering dental work now, as the dentists won't sign up to it - too much paperwork.

Yes, we have the hoops too.

Cheers, M

[Myzen]

Hi Candy,

It sounds like there is a 'poverty trap' like there is here in the UK. If you have a low paying part time job, or some small savings, you don't qualify for all the benefits and miss out on healthcare.

Medicaid sounds pretty good. Our NHS isn't covering dental work now, as the dentists won't sign up to it - too much paperwork.

Yes, we have the hoops too.

Cheers, M

[Myzen]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Lexicon78 said:
Some places are covered by welfare, and some are not. I can't get free eyecare. There's a co-pay every time I go see an approved family doctor...that's only if they are approved, too...otherwise I pay the full amount. And then I have to find a dentist that's covered through welfare...which sucks since the doctors under welfare aren't very good at all. In the last county I was in I refused to see the dentist...the only dentist under welfare in the county. He had so many cases against him...he let an abcess go on someone and they died from it...so no...I refused to go to him! So what did I do? I paid full price for a better doctor.

It pretty much sucks, if you ask me.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Lex,

It sounds tough. It's the same here I think. The services are there on paper, but when you look for a doctor or dentist, there are waiting lists depending on the area you live.

The people who can afford it go private, which reduces the quality of the public system in my view, as it makes a two level system and most professionals want to work where the money is.

Good thoughts, M

[Myzen]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Lexicon78 said:
Some places are covered by welfare, and some are not. I can't get free eyecare. There's a co-pay every time I go see an approved family doctor...that's only if they are approved, too...otherwise I pay the full amount. And then I have to find a dentist that's covered through welfare...which sucks since the doctors under welfare aren't very good at all. In the last county I was in I refused to see the dentist...the only dentist under welfare in the county. He had so many cases against him...he let an abcess go on someone and they died from it...so no...I refused to go to him! So what did I do? I paid full price for a better doctor.

It pretty much sucks, if you ask me.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Lex,

It sounds tough. It's the same here I think. The services are there on paper, but when you look for a doctor or dentist, there are waiting lists depending on the area you live.

The people who can afford it go private, which reduces the quality of the public system in my view, as it makes a two level system and most professionals want to work where the money is.

Good thoughts, M

[Rebound]

First, let me say how very lucky I feel to live in Canada. Universal medical care is enshrined in law via the Canada Health Act. Certain exceptions exist, dental, optical, psychiactric, but it sure beats the horror stories coming from those of you in the United States. It's sad, really, but unfortunately, there's a movement afoot in this country to more closely model that of the US rather than the other way around.

Where the system leaks is with regard to care of patients with chronic mental heath problems. Due to financial concerns, even the contstraints by which patients may be released from mental hospitals have been relaxed in order to open up beds.

To be honest, it's very difficult to find anything to complain about. The real whiners still manage to groan about long wait times at hospitals and other such quality of service issues, and I am inclined to agree, but compared to just about the entire rest of the planet we have it pretty good. Further, most companies of any remotely reasonable size have a group health plan of modest price which covers most prescription costs, including glasses.

All that having been said, we nevertheless have a terrible record with the poor. Whether on disablilty or welfare (or Social Assistance as the pc would have it) the poverty line hangs over you like a noose. Employment insurance is not much better, being no more than 55% of your former income. That means if you can't work due to illness, or can't find a job in any event, the income you receive from the government is just not enough to sustain a person to a reasonable standard. A friend of mine who is on disablility on a permanent basis tells me she gets all her meals from soup kitchens. Still, I am certain is not as bad as our neighbours to the south have it.

[Rebound]

First, let me say how very lucky I feel to live in Canada. Universal medical care is enshrined in law via the Canada Health Act. Certain exceptions exist, dental, optical, psychiactric, but it sure beats the horror stories coming from those of you in the United States. It's sad, really, but unfortunately, there's a movement afoot in this country to more closely model that of the US rather than the other way around.

Where the system leaks is with regard to care of patients with chronic mental heath problems. Due to financial concerns, even the contstraints by which patients may be released from mental hospitals have been relaxed in order to open up beds.

To be honest, it's very difficult to find anything to complain about. The real whiners still manage to groan about long wait times at hospitals and other such quality of service issues, and I am inclined to agree, but compared to just about the entire rest of the planet we have it pretty good. Further, most companies of any remotely reasonable size have a group health plan of modest price which covers most prescription costs, including glasses.

All that having been said, we nevertheless have a terrible record with the poor. Whether on disablilty or welfare (or Social Assistance as the pc would have it) the poverty line hangs over you like a noose. Employment insurance is not much better, being no more than 55% of your former income. That means if you can't work due to illness, or can't find a job in any event, the income you receive from the government is just not enough to sustain a person to a reasonable standard. A friend of mine who is on disablility on a permanent basis tells me she gets all her meals from soup kitchens. Still, I am certain is not as bad as our neighbours to the south have it.

[Myzen]

Hi Sky,

This is what I was thinking about: the extra burden of money worry that we have when we have a long term illness.

There are two questions that doctors have asked me over recent years, "Do you have money worries" and "Do you have anyone at home."

I guess they know full well that if we are living alone with no money, then we are vulnerable. It's pretty obvious. I'm not sure what the doctors could do about it though. We have a social services system here, but it's under pressure like all government services. The politicians tend to blame the 'ageing population.'

Good thoughts, M

[Myzen]

Hi Sky,

This is what I was thinking about: the extra burden of money worry that we have when we have a long term illness.

There are two questions that doctors have asked me over recent years, "Do you have money worries" and "Do you have anyone at home."

I guess they know full well that if we are living alone with no money, then we are vulnerable. It's pretty obvious. I'm not sure what the doctors could do about it though. We have a social services system here, but it's under pressure like all government services. The politicians tend to blame the 'ageing population.'

Good thoughts, M

[Myzen]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Rebound said:
Where the system leaks is with regard to care of patients with chronic mental heath problems. Due to financial concerns, even the contstraints by which patients may be released from mental hospitals have been relaxed in order to open up beds.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

We have this too. Under Margaret Thatcher the notorious 'care in the community' plan was enacted, which resulted in very sick people being expected to go it alone.

In the small town where I live there is a mental health day centre. The result is that we have several people wandering around the streets all day long, and sleeping rough. One person I know has a place to live but she is driven onto the street through loneliness and just wanders up and down, looking so sad and lost.

Unfortunately, this is a typical result of 'care in the community', quite the opposite of the comforting title. I think it was just a money saving ploy, to be honest, and not a care plan at all - call me cynical!

The fact is that some people do need some extra support, and someone to watch over them with a caring eye.

Cheers, M

[Myzen]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Rebound said:
Where the system leaks is with regard to care of patients with chronic mental heath problems. Due to financial concerns, even the contstraints by which patients may be released from mental hospitals have been relaxed in order to open up beds.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

We have this too. Under Margaret Thatcher the notorious 'care in the community' plan was enacted, which resulted in very sick people being expected to go it alone.

In the small town where I live there is a mental health day centre. The result is that we have several people wandering around the streets all day long, and sleeping rough. One person I know has a place to live but she is driven onto the street through loneliness and just wanders up and down, looking so sad and lost.

Unfortunately, this is a typical result of 'care in the community', quite the opposite of the comforting title. I think it was just a money saving ploy, to be honest, and not a care plan at all - call me cynical!

The fact is that some people do need some extra support, and someone to watch over them with a caring eye.

Cheers, M

I hate money.

I am supposed to talk to a social assistance worker today to at least get help paying for my medication.

Bills are so backed up, Im almost getting disconnected..

Whats worse, and i feel like a moron about is last week i got this promo in my email for online casino, it was like free 25.00, ive never gambled online and i never really gamble outside of online either.. anyways, of course in my poor state of mind last week any money seemed like good money and the next thing I knew my bank account is overdrawn a whopping 257.00!! They charged me the money I tried to take out, and EIGHT (8!!!!) 30 bounced check fees. They usually just take the money out, and then charge me a 5.00 "presentment"charge.. Well holy crap they didnt this time. I called the bank cause i even tried to save myself before some of them went through the other day, they told me they could stop them, and now this. I think ill go back to not gambling ever for one, and two, I feel like a freaking horrible person. I was so depressed though it hooked me right in, line and sinker.

Im in such a mess, I want to hide. And no sight of coming out of it, as im having to go on EI or SA.

I dont even have money for groceries right now, im gonna borrow some from the boyfriend tomorrow but you know that puts a strain on our relationship whether he agrees or not.

I dont know, frig.

I hate money.

I am supposed to talk to a social assistance worker today to at least get help paying for my medication.

Bills are so backed up, Im almost getting disconnected..

Whats worse, and i feel like a moron about is last week i got this promo in my email for online casino, it was like free 25.00, ive never gambled online and i never really gamble outside of online either.. anyways, of course in my poor state of mind last week any money seemed like good money and the next thing I knew my bank account is overdrawn a whopping 257.00!! They charged me the money I tried to take out, and EIGHT (8!!!!) 30 bounced check fees. They usually just take the money out, and then charge me a 5.00 "presentment"charge.. Well holy crap they didnt this time. I called the bank cause i even tried to save myself before some of them went through the other day, they told me they could stop them, and now this. I think ill go back to not gambling ever for one, and two, I feel like a freaking horrible person. I was so depressed though it hooked me right in, line and sinker.

Im in such a mess, I want to hide. And no sight of coming out of it, as im having to go on EI or SA.

I dont even have money for groceries right now, im gonna borrow some from the boyfriend tomorrow but you know that puts a strain on our relationship whether he agrees or not.

I dont know, frig.

[Myzen]

Hi Rainbow,

I am so sorry that this happened to you. When we are up against it, that is just when we are tempted to take a risk and it's the most dangerous time.

You are not alone, I'm sure that lots of us have made this mistake. The thing is, that when we have long term ill health we actually have to get better at budgeting our money and looking after ourselves, just when we are least able to cope.

It's hard.

Good thoughts, M