[lenjan]

Watch out folks, I'm on a rampage tonight (PMSing, sorry, it happens). Mods, please move if this does not belong here, but I need to talk about this.

Andrea Yates is the Texas woman who drowned her 5 children in a bathtub. She was just found not guilty by reason of insanity.

I have a bug up my butt about this because 18 years ago, I released my son to be raised by financially and emotionally stable people. I didn't have more children. His adoptive mother tracked me down 2 years ago and we slowly have built a relationship, but the fact remains that I missed the first 16 years of his life, and I'm never getting those back.

Andrea Yates slaughtered her children, and yet she's not going to prison. There was a teenager in Milwaukee a couple of years ago who hid her pregnancy (like to know how that happens) from her parents, gave birth, wrapped the baby in a plastic grocery bag, and left it in a public toilet in a park in the middle of January. She didn't go to jail either, although she was tried as an adult.

So listen up -- when my family pisses me off one too many times and I do them in, y'all tell the jury I was a regular here, and I'll have my pdoc testify I've been on psych meds for a million billion years and done some time in a mental hospital, and the jury will let me off because they feel sorry for me, k?

I'm sorry. I just don't think it should work that way. It offends the crap out of my sense of justice.

CB

I know what you mean.
Also, people like that make us look bad 'cause people start assuming we're going to go around murdering people too.

[(JD)]

I'm sorry this upsets you. She will spend the rest of her life in a psychitric ward. People who are mentally ill don't belong in prison, imo. If they have committed crimes, they do need to be away from public, though, imo.

Part of her problem was exacerbated by her husband, imo. It wasn't totally her doing having all those children without help for herself. IMO

I would hate to go to prison for something I truly had no control over. I hope I gain full control of my flashbacks before something like that could happen. I'm glad I'm not having to deal with it in my own life.

[LMo]

Candy - giving up your son and then seeing the outcome of the Yates case has GOT to be painful. I can't even begin to comprehend how you must be feeling.

I do hope you're being facetious about your family, though...

[lenjan]

Thank you! Somebody understands!

Of course I'm being facetious about my family. (BTW, "facetious" was my dad's favorite word, and his death anniversary is Aug. 1, so I appreciate the positive and amusing memory opportunity ). They irritate me sometimes, but when the chips were down, they came through.

I would have given everything I had, ever had, and ever would have had to be able to raise my son. His mom helped my healing along a good deal by finding me, but I will never get those years back. It frosts me no end that there are so many people in this world who would love, cherish and adore a child and yet some consider them disposable.

Sky, I respectfully disagree. I think Ms. Yates knew exactly what she was doing. I think she should pay for it. I don't think she should be allowed to use "I'm sorry, I just went mental for a minute while I coldly slaughtered my five young children." She doesn't deserve a psych ward. I thought they should have fried her the first time, frankly. Like I said, I have a bug up my butt about this, and I apologize if I sound vengeful, but I am. I have been sentenced to a lifetime of grief and despair for making a choice I should not have had to make. If ol Andrea couldn't handle her kids, she could have given them to someone who could. She chose to kill them instead. Maybe God will throw the book at her, since the justice system didn't.

Candy

[Rapunzel]

It's not pleasant, and I agree that being mentally ill doesn't excuse anyone from the responsibility for what they do, or at least to get help somewhere from someone who can help them maintain control. I think that maybe they should call it "guilty by reason of insanity" instead of not guilty.

There are different degrees of severity and circumstances though. Maybe we can't really know what was going on for someone else, or what they might have tried as far as getting help.

I have a brother who is schizophrenic and he has been in jail for the past year and a half for molesting our younger sister who has Down Syndrome (and also she was 17 at the time). My brother had been diagnosed a number of years earlier, and had been on meds, but his doctor was worried about negative impact on his health and decided to change the meds. The new meds were not working out for him. For several days he tried to tell someone that he was not in control and something was going to happen. My mother drove him around to hospitals and none would take him because they weren't convinced that there was any imminent danger. My brother turned himself in, and I understand that he was nearly suicidal over what he had done. In jail they held him for months, just observing him and not allowing any treatment. What he did was bad, but the system really did fail imo.

All I know is that in cases like these, I'm glad that I am not the judge either for the mortal realm or more especially for the hereafter.

Sincerely,
Rap

[nothemama8]

Candybear, right now it seems unfair but as Sky said she will spend the rest of her life in a mental hospital, good possiblity when she is deemed sane she will have to stand trial again, also when she does realize what she did she won't be able to deal with this and, last but not least she has to face her maker in the final end and he/she won't let this go by
Angie

[telb]

she will have regular evoluations, the doctors decide when she will be released. was watching the trail and i forget who made the coment. but he said he has seen simular cases where the person usally gets out within 6 years. but she could be released as earily as 6 months but who knows, its very likely she could spend the rest of her days there.
as for yates i dident follow this case closly but i relly dont think she was insane by the state of texas definition. wich is not knowing right from wrong.
hopfully she spend a long long time there, i hear its not much better then prison in some cases worse..
ok just heard some facts on the case. at the time she did this she waited for her husban to leave, she did it before her mother? came over. after she was done she called the police and said she did it because she thought they had saten in them and she knew she would be punished for what she had done. so why she was found not guilty by the law is beyond me because she clearly knew right from wrong. but is it possible to experience psychosis and still be able to determine right from wrong?

[Lexicon78]

The whole Yates thing really irks the hell out of me, too. Actually anyone who does anything to children...insane or not...really just gets me in an uproar.

Although I can understand that a woman goes through something hard (there's an understatement) after birth. I just can't comprehend how they can go to they extent. But of course it happens.

Yeah, I don't know how many times I've totally lost it in the past and could've easily done some mortal damage to some people (I've seriously thought about it before) I don't ever think that if I did do something due to insanity I would consider it justice if I didn't go to jail. All I'm sayin is that I just don't think that a psych hospital stay for the rest of someone's life is enough. Maybe half there and half in a prison...I dunno. It's just disturbing.

My mother had bp & was an alcoholic--not a good mix. She had delusions that we kids had "bad blood" due to having the father we did. She had religious delusions & thought he was Satan. She beat us & threatened to kill us. The first time she had a break from reality was when I was about 3 (learned this from my father--who btw did not protect us enough--he'd take off when she got loony) & she called my father at work & told him she was going to kill the children & herself. He called the police & that was her 1st trip to the mental institution. The problem I have is that she was clearly a danger to herself & others & yet they would keep releasing her from the hospital. Finally, years after all this abuse & going in & out of the hospital, my father was going to have her involuntarily committed. She found out about it & left the country. She came back a year later (the most peaceful year of my life up to that point) & within a few days killed herself. She had had numerous attempts before & finally succeeded in getting some peace through death. I don't think she should have ended up in jail if she had killed us. She was really sick & obviously was psychotic.

i'm with you on this one candy and i too was enraged when i heard the outcome.....

[jennie]

may be psychosis stigma, huh?

i had a psychotic episode, which involved religious themes. when you believe G*d wants you to do something, you don't question ethics when you are psychotic.

i haven't followed her case much because it's very upsetting to me.


if i walked a mile in Andrea Yates' shoes, i think the following:

(1) justice was/is served for any moments of sanity she has nowadays when she realizes how she lost her children.

(2) she probably thought she was instructed by G*d, like Abraham's sacrifice of his son Isaac in the Torah (or Old Testament of the Bible).

(3) how could her faith in G*d ever be restored? i bet her faith meant everything to her before. she probably feels all alone in the universe.

(4) i feel sorry for her.

[hillbunnyb]

i'm with jenny. when her brain has a clear thought, it will kill her. for me, for her to go through 5 little lives like she did, shows there was not a clear thought within a hundred miles.

i almost threw a howling for 8 hours, sick newborn, down a flight of marble stairs to shut her up. i didn't want to kill her, i just needed a moment of silence so bad i lost my mind over it. fortunately as i had her raised above my head and was ready to chuck she shut up, i came to and almost died on the spot to find myself standing at the top of the marble stairs with her up there above my head and me ready to chuck her.

i was a kid. 15 or 16. that moment is never far from my consciousness. it changed everything for me. i had become my father. it was like a tsunami of fear rolled through me. i sat down in a rocking chair with that precious little bundle of life and swore i would never raise my hand in anger again.

i literally had to sit on them so i wouldn't spank anybody. to break my family's training. physical violence was de rigeur in my childhood world.

so back to andrea yates. i don't hear voices. i fear that if i had had voices on top of frustration....... no hope for the baby. i feel like i was given a miracle (in her sudden silence) which gave me the break in routine i needed to see where i was in my life.
and make changes before i totally blew it.

i had no idea i was capable of throwing a baby down the stairs before i found myself ready to do it. i was soooo close. it still scares the poo out of me today. hard ot believe of myself. we just don't know until we're there sometimes.

to me, any way you cut it, andrea's life is over.

[jennie]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
hillbunnyb said:
i almost threw a howling for 8 hours, sick newborn, down a flight of marble stairs to shut her up. i didn't want to kill her, i just needed a moment of silence so bad i lost my mind over it. fortunately as i had her raised above my head and was ready to chuck she shut up, i came to and almost died on the spot to find myself standing at the top of the marble stairs with her up there above my head and me ready to chuck her.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

it takes a lot of courage to disclose something like that . . . thank you . . .
hillbunnyb

[hillbunnyb]

it changed everything.......

[Liv28]

I live in Texas and I also happen to be a Paralegal in training working for a lawfirm..I say this only because here in Texas we followed the Andra Yates case extremely close..and working for a Lawyer we watched it even closer..My boss and I were sick when they came back with the verdict..but we were not all that suprised..we new they had a good defense. What bothers me is that, I believe as well as many others, that Andrea Yates HAD to know what she was doing..Think about how long it takes for a person to drown....not only did she do it once..but she did it FIVE times..Andrea Yates first trial was for the death penalty and she would most likely be on death row right now IF the prosecutors hadn't messed up the case by bringing in a witness that got up on the stand and LIED..what stupid people..because of that she got a retrial and the death penalty taken off of the table..now don't get me wrong..I am all for rehabilitation when it is warranted and believable..but this women killed FIVE children..five of her OWN children..what quality of life does she have left? Why put her in a hospital for counseling and all that jazz? Why does she deserve that above anyone else? How is she special? I don't believe she is..I believe, as harsh as it may sound and forgive me if I step on toes here..she sould get the same punishment bestowed upon her as she bestowed upon her children..

Randy Yates KNEW his wife was sick. He continued to get her pregnant year after year. I understand that she would be pregnant and still nursing one child. They lived in a tiny bus/trailer with those children for awhile. All of the children.

He knew she had serious mental issues. She was on all sorts of meds. His mother was there because they knew she couldn't care for those children.

He is just as guilty as she is, in my book. He's now newly married and voices his "care and concern" for Andrea........

[bebop]

Liv I totally agree. I think the prosecutor needed to find a pdoc to testify that she could not have been insane. My word she had to chase one of the kids down and catch him so she could continue her "quest".
I know a minister here in Ga that met with his mistress who was also a ministers wife and killed her because she would not leave her husband. He tried the insanity plea and it didn't work. He reloaded a double barrel shotgun and shot again. The expert testified no insane person would have done that. He tried to claim his chemo for throat cancer made him do it. He however is not on death row. He got life without parole. If I am not mistaken when drs feel she is "cured" don't they review and let them out of mental institution in insanity verdicts?

i believe that to be so, bebop.........i think it was in the newspaper that she could be released at some future date.

[Liv28]

Bebop..I asked my boss that..and he said Yes, once the review board believes that she has been rehabilitated she can be released..Now, that can be two years from now or 50 years from now..it is really up to the review board and the progress that Yates DISPLAYS for them..what a joke!

[Liv28]

Yeah..the husband is a bastard..but he did not drown his children..

[bebop]

geesh. Do any of you remember the Susan Smith case where she rolled her car into a lake in SC? She tried to put the blame on an innocent black man. All because her boyfriend rejected her..my word she was married!

[Liv28]

is that the one where she had two kids in the car? and she said that she had been car jacked or something? If not, do you remember that? Turns out she ran her car into a river or lake and drowned her two kids..

[bebop]

yes that is the case!!!

[(JD)]

And there are more cases similar.

I must question the sanity of anyone who rather than just walking away, performs something so drastic.