Andrea Yates

I remember before this Yate's case there was that other child killer, was it "Susan Smith"?
Whatever her name was, she accused some black dude or dudes of kidnapping her kid(s), but in reality she killed them, by drowning them buckled in their car seats, rolling the car in the river. True reason came out, no one kidnapped them, instead she was having an affair and her boyfriend didn't want the kids.
The poor husband believed her that they were kidnapped, she had him hoodwinked just like all of us, when I first saw the news alert, my heart sank for her, when I found out when she confessed or someone found out?
I was so angry that she was a liar and murderer, top it off it was near the time I had just had my son or was trying to get pregnant, it was some time ago so I have forgotten the exact year.
Enough is enough, capital punsishment for such crime(s) is most appropriate in my eyes.
I get so tired of hearing they were temporarily insane,have some post partum depression (heck many of us get that) or suffered with whatever . . . enough is enough.
There wasn't a mentally insane deal there, it was some horney woman that put her sex drive before her child/children.
As many said and I do think her husband, who was totally devastated said, she could of left them some place or to someone, but sher didn't have to go and kill them.
I apologize if this offended anyone, it wasn't intended to, but only me releasing my view and annoyance that some can defend or feel sorry for woman like this.
They also bring stigmas to many of us that deal with mental illness, and are not murderers.
Grrrrrrrrrrrrr!
Thanks for listening to my ramblings.
DE

I agree, Susan Smith was a cold calculated murderer. She thought of her children as inconvenient and killed them so she could keep her boyfriend. She lied and implicated a black man in a southern town to get the most sympathy. She was not psychotic, just a plain murderer.

Susan Smith did not have a history of mental illness. No history of heavy duty anti-psychotics being given and then taken away. No history of psych hospitalizations and past suicide attempts......... Nope, just news conferences with crocodile tears.

She did not have the psych history that Andrea Yates had and consequently the sentence fit her crime...as long as it was the death sentence. Anything less would be a travesty of justice........

She was a pathetic excuse for a mother.

Susan Smith though didn't get the death penalty. life in prison

and was recently beaten badly in a fight......

That is a shame.........if anyone deserved the death penalty.......she did!!

Pat really? I haven't seen anything on her in awhile. I think it is a shame she tried to blame an innocent man. It all but caused a riot in her little town.

I agree this one deserves the penalty

Thanks .<font color="darkblue"> [b]
Are they insane? Well, again my semantic nature takes over. Obviously the law has drawn a line about that. What's interesting in that the legal term and the medical term don't fully coincide do they?

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
DEFENSE, INSANITY - A criminal defense asserting that at the time of the commission of the acts constituting the offense, the defendant, as a result of a severe mental disease or defect, was unable to appreciate the nature and quality or the wrongfulness of his acts. Mental disease or defect does not otherwise constitute a defense. U.S.C. 18

A person is insane, and is not responsible for criminal conduct if, at the time of such conduct, as a result of a severe mental disease or defect, he was unable to appreciate the nature and quality or the wrongfulness of his acts. This is because willfull intent is an essential part of most offenses; and a person who is insane is not capable of forming such intent. Mental disease or defect does not otherwise constitute a defense; the person has the burden of proving the defense of insanity by clear and convincing evidence.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> ('Lectric law library's lexicon)

There appears to be one main medical definition: of, exhibiting or afflicted with insanity.:" But each medical discipline seems to have their own definition to guide them.

There is also another legal aspect with regards to capacity to understand, and whether actions are within expected human nature.

Hmmm It is human nature for some to do evil things. That runs into religious beliefs.

I wanted to share this now, as I believe the thread is going to take a "religious beliefs" turn after the Primetime show.

Remember, we're not discussing whether or not someone insane is innocent.

Anyway, I hope we can continue the adult discussion. It's a subject that is not going "away." imo.

bebop, i read it in a newspaper. small article near the back. showed a photo of her face......no longer front page news. her children would have been grown now.

i don't have t.v. now......please post a "run-down" on the Primetime special. thanks, pat

will do...I just did a google on Andrea. pretty interesting reading there. I just don't see how an insane or psychotic person can recant all details detailing which child she killed first. I would think there would be a memory issue there.

bebop I found this.

The newest erotic episode in the life of Susan Smith was discovered after an investigation into the Smith's medical records to find if a tabloid story alleging that Smith had been beaten was true. Her medical records did not reveal a beating but that she had been treated for a sexually transmitted disease "other than HIV" and under questioning she admitted having sex with Houston Cagle, a prison guard.


Read more.
Susan Smith

I apologize for ever bringing this up. I didn't mean to cause this much of a fuss.

CB

candy I think it is doing well honestly...it shows good debate I think.

oh tonight also at 10 they are going to show Susan Smith on discovery channel

Candy, so far I do not see anything wrong with your post, I agree with what bebop just told you.
As a reminder too, no one is forcing anyone to read this thread nor is anyone forcing religious beliefs, etc.
Candy, no apologies needed, it's alright.

<font color="darkblue"> I wonder how many disordered ppl plot and plan something over and over and over in their minds, fully thinking their plans are rational the whole way through, can still recall them after the fact? I'm not thinking that dissociation is a requirement of insanity, though certainly in many cases it is a component in crime.

With regards to "all" the people in prison being disordered...well, by societal definition, YEAH. In fact, there is even a misdemeanor crime of "disorderly conduct."

I'm not posting to try and cause readers to begin to think just like me (though, I must admit at times I think that would be nice ) but to really begin deep thinking on things. This subject especially requires no less. imo.

I can't quote the studies, they are surely old by now and I have no idea what became of the stats and if more recent studies countered the original ones, but it was determined at the time that the majority of prisoners who had violent crime histories also had personal history of head trauma. Hmmm

[b] The main thought that goes through my mind in all of this is: "There but for the grace of God, go I."

On the contrary Candy, this topic has had a wonderful adult dialogue.

It is the type of subject that illicits strong feelings and the opinions expressed here have been very well stated with no sense of "i'm right and your wrong" to contend with.........at least I have not sensed that

I have enjoyed reading the opinions of people who have dealt with some type of mental illness themselves. Something that I am not able to do due to lack of people knowing of my own struggle.

Good topic and very timely.........thank you for bringing it up and letting us state our opinions in an atmosphere of acceptance.

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_Sky said:
<font color="darkblue">
[b] The main thought that goes through my mind in all of this is: "There but for the grace of God, go I."

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Amen

you know I think it is rare that we have this good of a discussion and even those that are what I consider close friends can disagree and not get angry! Candy I applaud you! and everyone participating!

Be, I just wanted someone to understand what and how I was feeling, and look what I did! I am glad everyone is taking it well and being civil, but the number of responses is overwhelming me and I don't really know what to say to anyone anymore. I have such limited energy these days anyway. I feel like, I started the thread, I should be more involved, but I can't keep defending myself and my feelings.



CB

candy no need to defend yourself hon. I am sorry that it is overwhelming you right now. Did you have your interview? if so how did it go? I know you are really having a hard time right now. like I said I think a good debate is a good thing. no arguing going on with it for sure!

The interview went well, I think. I used a technique my last T taught me (or that we devised together, more accurately) to talk myself into being confident and bright and all that good stuff. I got lots of affirmations for my responses to the questioners (there were 2) and they seemed to be pleased with me -- when I was leaving, the guy told his secretary that I needed to have an appointment set up with ANOTHER interviewer, so I guess that means I'm into round 3. But I left there exhausted and feeling like such a fricking fraud. I pretended I could do this job, but it was just pretend. I look great on paper; even my ***** jobs over the last 10 years have added up to look pretty impressive and like I had an actual career path in mind all the time, and there's always the degrees to ooh and aah over, but in the end I'm just faking it anyway. I can BS well enough to make it look like I know what I'm doing, is all.

I'm exhausted, my pdoc f'd with my meds the other day, and I just want to crawl in a hole (or a cave) and not come out for another year or so.

I hate dishonest people; I pride myself on being as forthright as possible, but I lied through my teeth about myself today and I can't deal with my lack of integrity.

Sorry for getting off topic.

CB

well, it's your thread Candybear, it's when we do feel like a fraud that those resumes come in handy...proving to others and ourselves that we are capable beings. I'm sorry you are doubting yourself. Try and recall how you felt after finishing a story that really made a difference! Yeah!!!

Back to Yates... I hope everyone will keep safe if viewing the program.

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bebop said:
candy no need to defend yourself hon. I am sorry that it is overwhelming you right now. Did you have your interview? if so how did it go? I know you are really having a hard time right now. like I said I think a good debate is a good thing. no arguing going on with it for sure!

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I agree with Bebop it is a good discussion and being handle well..................

Please take care of yourself first!!! I hope the med issue works itself out, I know how important those things are..... Take care

The prosecutor made the statement that there was no evidence to the idea of Yates being driven by Satan. I wonder what his personal faith experience is that causes him to say this, and to feel credentialed to make that statement.