Andrea Yates

i agree that he didn't drown them. i meant that circumstances surrounding what happened might have been circumvented, had he gotten his head out of his --- and taken some responsibility for the state of things. no, she did the deeds.........

Pat I know there was talk about his knowledge of her post partum depression. I think the whole thing is so very sad. The poor children suffered so much. This woman will never really pay for what she did to them

in interviews he admitted that he knew she was having problems and he also talked about her hospitalizations........suppose there might have been a teensy red flag there somewhere?

Pat..I guess I agree there..he could definately have headed things off at the pass..stopped things happening before they got out of hand..and he is a big time jerk in my book..unfortunately..like you said..he had his head so far up his ***** that he didn't take the time or wanted to take the time to notice..Makes me wonder about the mother though..

Sky..I absolutely believe that there are sane and insane people out there..but I believe in good and evil too..and I beleive that the evil should be punished..and I don't believe that every single one of these cases are being delivered by the hand of insane person..maybe a person with a bit of bad luck and no way out..or for whatever reason they want to give..and yes I do believe there are insane cases..Ive seen them..first hand..but they are few and far between..people use it for an excuse now a days..LAWYERS use it to get their clients off..its an easy defense..easy to argue..easy to get witnesses to testify to..and is being used more and more today..its sad..

yes he did say he knew about it but he also had to work to support the family making it really difficult for him to watch her 24/7. Wasn't her mother or someone else that was suppose to be with her during the day during that time? my memory is not the best in the world on this.

tonight on abc at 10 eastern they are going to have an interview with Andrea Yates. It will be in Primetime

what about Andrea's health providers? aren't they responsible, too? did they have an obligation to bring in Child Protective Services or social workers?

any sane person wouldn't be able to live with his/herself, knowing he/she murdered his/her five children. she'll suffer every day for the rest of her life.

she might. you would hope? I just don't know how anyone could harm an innocent child sane or insane. once you hold them in your arms....*sigh*

<font color="blue">Yes, but unless it is unedited, uncut, full leaf... we will only see what they choose.

I stand by my belief. Sane ppl get divorces, drop children off at parents, seek legal counsel, ask church for help, tell the neighbors of unhappiness, leave children alone at home, kick children out of house, make them play outside, quit cooking, cleaning, talking to spouse....( yes, angry ppl can also do terrible things. I reference the recent Medical Doctor who threw his two children out the Miami hotel window, and then jumped also, because of a miserable marriage and jealousy over who "got" the "kids.")

But who among us.. US, here at PC... can say that mismanagement of anger isn't a mental disorder??? To me, it is. The thinking is DISordered. People without disorder do not drown 5 of their own flesh and blood no matter how planned it is.

Who here at PC dare say that disordered thinking doesn't allow for plans to be made... irrational, unrealistic and yes even illegal planning? Of course it happens!

I also think evil ppl are disordered. How is it normal to go about hating and killing or abusing strangers for "no reason?" Of course there are reasons.

Nope. Sane ppl don't do this stuff. Temporary, impulsive, whatever... I know the power of the mind. I think you do too.

Jen, many sane people commit the acts of murder EVERY day and the live with themselves just fine..I belive that she was sick..but I don't believe that she was INSANE..to me, there are many many differences. I believe she knew exactly what she was doing..and I do believe she is suffering now..as she should be..she killed her children..There are no laws stating her health care providers needed to check in on Andrea..nothing to do with Post Pardon Depression..in fact now they are trying to push such laws in many states..people are protesting them..People do not believe that Post Pardom Depression should be classified as a disorder that leads to murder.

I think the death penalty would be giving her mercy and compassion. I didn't care one way or another if she lived or died. Justice is served with her living. I do not believe she'll ever be rehabilitated. If she is, then she should be transferred from the mental hospital to the prison. Any psychiatrist that signs for her future release from the mental health institution should have his/her license removed.

Okay..well it looks as if I am about to step on peoples toes here..Jen, I know you would take what I say with a grain of salt and run with it..I am not sure anyone else would..so with that I will quietly go back to my little corner as I always do and keep my mouth shut, as I normally do..I would hate to start yet another rumble for simply voicing my opinion! ((hugs))

??? I think your comments are fine Liv, but do what you must in the interest of self care No rumble here, agree or disagree or just not know, discussion is good imo.

With so many ppl on death row who don't belong there (an assumption, yes, but based upon the numerous incidents already discovered) I am tempted to think we need a moratorium on proceeding with the death penalty for a while.

This is a fine line to be drawn... this one about when disordered ppl need to be kept away from the rest of society. As it is now, it's not until you do perform some heinous crime, or threaten to do so (such as suicide or homocide) are you locked up and kept out of normal society.

What else can we as a society do? Certainly no one wants all disordered ppl to be locked up!

The husband, imo, in the Yates case, was also mentally unwell. He didn't go to jail because he didn't actually commit the crime. Yet, he certainly was involved and possibly "the motive." And the mother? Was she charged with failure to perform her expected duties, resulting in the deaths? No. Of course not.

Yes indeed, where do you draw the line?

(((candybear))) my heart goes out to you, and I can see that you know why you are so upset over this.

A while back I posted in self esteem the dangers of comparing ourselves, our lives to others. It will "get us into trouble everytime."

What was done in your case was what was considered the best for the sake of all around. Yes, you did lose those years. To compare your situation with Yates does you a disservice, imo.

With that said, look at what you, yourself posted: </font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Watch out folks, I'm on a rampage tonight (PMSing, sorry, it happens).

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> Why did you feel the need to clarify that? Is it because you don't think straight, or as well during these times? Can you find the connection to the whole thread in that?

Everyone has the right to have an opinion. My opinion is right for me. It might not be for you.

Sky..I think my emotions ran high this week with other comments..and I felt i might be stepping on toes..but if you say I am not..than lets continue shall we..lol

I, too, believe that death row has gotten out of hand, especially in the State of Texas..Texas alone counts for almost 70 to 80% of all death row cases did you know that? Sad huh?! that doesn't make me any less for or against by the way just because I happen to live here now..Houston happens to be coming across more and more cases where inmates on death row are now innocent...just as you previously stated..but Andrea Yates is not innocent now is she?
To me, you take the life of her five children..and you ask yourself..Why? Why did she kill them? You say you think she might have had motive with her husband? I say that is an excuse..same thing? Not really..Her husband was a dead beat..may be he had issues as well..may be he realized that his wife had issues..may be he didn't..but do you expect me to believe that he ever expected that his wife was going to take his children and drown them in their bathtub?
Now..Andrea Yates was diagnosed with Post Pardom Depression right? To most of the general public..this is not that big of a deal..you get put on medication and bam..you pop right back to life..obviously this did not happen with Yates..but Maybe the mother was not educated in such areas to assume otherwise..and took a day for herself because Yates seemed "better"..there could be millions of reasons why the mother wasn't there that day..And again, how could the mother know what Andrea was going to do? How could anyone know, except Andrea?

My question to you is earlier you stated that only insane people could commit murder and other such deeds..you realize that crimes such as these happen every day..every minute of every hour..gangs..kids..women..and men..of all ages..are all these people..young and old..insane?? or are they surviving the best they know how..with what they have..or have some been turned evil because of situations or by birth? My point is, to me,there is no way all these people can be insane..

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Liv28 said: My point is, to me,there is no way all these people can be insane..

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">
excellent point . . . but what if?

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
_Sky said:
(((candybear))) my heart goes out to you, and I can see that you know why you are so upset over this.

A while back I posted in self esteem the dangers of comparing ourselves, our lives to others. It will "get us into trouble everytime."

What was done in your case was what was considered the best for the sake of all around. Yes, you did lose those years. To compare your situation with Yates does you a disservice, imo.

With that said, look at what you, yourself posted: </font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Watch out folks, I'm on a rampage tonight (PMSing, sorry, it happens).

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> Why did you feel the need to clarify that? Is it because you don't think straight, or as well during these times? Can you find the connection to the whole thread in that?

Everyone has the right to have an opinion. My opinion is right for me. It might not be for you.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

_Sky . . . that above is the one of the best/supportive posts i've seen in a while

OH please, Jen, are you going to tell me every single person that has ever murdered someone is crazy..insane to the point that they didn't know what they were doing?? If that is true..why are they in prisons instead of Hospitals being rehabiltated like Yates? I know someone who personally has shot another..didn't kill him..thank god..but he shot them..hes perfectly sane..so I guess I just don't understand how you could believe that?!!!!!

Liv28 . . . I can hear you saying "Oh please Jen" . . . by the way, if you want, you can use this smiley . . . I think you would of used it if you had known about it . . . heehee

I do wonder if everyone on death row is mentally ill. I understand the law defines clearly what constitutes legal insanity. I support the law. I just wonder . . . what if?

NO WAY!!! where did you find that smiley???? I want one!!! Thats perfect!! LOL!!!
I have no doubt you have the "what if's" going on..you always have..always will..I do the same..I question everything I believe all the time..especially now that I am working in law..It's hard..and it saddens me what I see..but I do love it..and I want to make a difference..sometimes I wonder if I ever will..so much of it out there..I know I SOUND hard..but we both know otherwise..The poeple that know me know otherwise anyways..Regardless of her sanity or not..five children are dead by her hands..five..saddens me..so wrong..you know?

Having had a few psychotic breaks myself, I can tell you from personal experience that your thinking is truely disordered and not rational.

Many times when my depression would get out of control I would think how I needed to kill myself and my children. They could be sleeping peacefully in their beds and I was lying in mine planning what to do to end "their" suffering. I was sure that I had failed them, that I had doomed them to the terrible pain that I was fighting daily.. Trust me, it is/was awful, awful pain and I am sure some of you have experienced this type of pain yourself.

The only thing that saved them and me was to get myself to a Dr who understood the depths of my depression and recognized my need for anti-depressants and anti-psychotics.

If I remember right, Andrea Yates was treated for major post partum depression with anti-depressants AND anti-psychotics. She was taken off the anti-pyschotic haldol shortly before she killed her children. Stupid move on the pdocs part, but could explain her extremely disordered thinking and the consequence of that thinking.

Psychotic thinking is SO REAL to the person experiencing it and it is a terrible way to exist. I say exist, because it truely is not living...........it is AWFUL!

Your experience is exactly what I believe my mother had. She could not think rationally & was in her own reality where her own children were "the enemy." I was a preemie & almost died at birth. She told me numerous times she wished I had died. Her threats to kill us & herself, I believe, was her psychosis & delusions speaking, not her. I wished I had known her, but all I knew was her illness.

We have a guy here in PA who just got the death penalty signed by Gov. Rendell, as of last night for setting a fire with gasoline and letting his baby daughter burn to death, this man never said he was mentally ill just said he didn't do it, only fingerprints any where in house were his and child, this is justice

Sky, i second what Jennie said.

I am so sorry Suzy5654 that your mother was so ill. I know the pain of psychosis and I know the pain and that it can cause loved ones.

I never thought of my children as "enemies" I only knew the pain I felt and just "KNEW" that I had doomed them to that pain also.

In a way, it was an extreme form of what some people who commit suicide feel............."oh everyone would be better off without me". Only not only do you think people would be better of without you ....... you also think you have either doomed the people you love the most, your defenseless children, to feeling this pain also or even worse that they are experiencing this pain at the same time and at the same level you are currently at..........

Even though your children may laugh and play and everyone remarks what a happy family you are.........you KNOW what is "REALLY" happening........you "KNOW" the pain that is your children are "REALLY" feeling. That you are NOT really a good mother, that you are awful and your children are doomed, how could you have done that to them, doomed them.........you love them!!

I know now that it was the psychosis that had me feeling.....no "KNOWING" that............but that is only because I have had the proper medications and the fact that I continue to be medication compliant.

Did my children have any idea of the depths of my illness........I like to think "no". But I do know that they felt the effects of my just general "MDD"..... for that I continue to feel sorry.