Why is it... (probably triggery and will probably get me banned)

I can deal with the subject in a broad sense and understand why PC doesn't allow active intentional suicide posts. Personally I have talked some down in the other section that used to be here. Although I can understand if someone has a terminal disease, I too have a problem with the "its my life" theory. My older brother ended his life and I agree with Perna, its devastating for family and friends. When it happened to my brother, I made the conscious decision I wouldn't let it ruin my life and instead would use it to help others.

If society takes the attitude of "its your life so its ok to kill yourself"....there are many teenagers who might feel exasperated with a problem that seems its the end of the world but to an adult, its not. I also think there's value and lessons to persevering through problems, that lead to personal growth. I have many battle scars and its been tempting to give up but in the end I keep going. I will honor my existence till the end because I don't know what's around the corner that may change for the better. Society should talk about this and have help available in schools.

I get a couple newsletters from PC here and there have been a few that dealt w/ suicide including the issue that you are talking about. How society does place a stigma on suicide although we allow assisted death for our beloved pets we do not allow our beloved humans that same compassion. There was a blog by Doc John on this but I can't remember the title it was quiet a while a go.

I think a large part of this attitude is from fear. Humans as a rule do not like to think of death especially the death of any human as it reminds them of their own mortality. Another part of it is cultural, English culture tends to stay as far away from death as it can. We separate our elderly, we hide the cemeteries and put the sick and dieing into sterile places where we do not need to visit. To bring it out and talk about brings up feelings and our culture is not good with negative feelings--I didn't say bad feelings, just negative as apposed to positive good warm fuzzy feelings. Anger is much more accepted than feeling grief or sad although both are very valid feelings. In our culture feeling grief and sadness has been turned into a medical problem. Buck up and grieve in private, don't bother others with your pain is the prevailing attitude. Suicide is the same. It does need to be talked about.
Thank you for your thread.

Recently my step father passed away. He was sick I kinda forget what it was he had. No matter what the doctors did he just got worse and worse. If not for the machines he was on he would have just passed. One day one of the doctors told my mom there was nothing more they could do and that we should consider hospice and let him pass.

My mom struggled with it I had to explain to her how it is not good for him. How it's got to be torture laying in a hospital bed for nearly a year and not being able to do anything even communicate. I asked her if she was in that position what would she want us to do. She made the decision to have hospice come and bring him to their part of the hospital. No more than a few minutes of being there he passed.

So why can we not have a hospice for this kind of thing? Maybe for most of us there really is no helping. Sometimes problems are too much and there is no fixing them. I know I am certainly there. I guess I am in a very small minority on this subject. I like to think I have a practical mind, one that sees there is nothing that can be done so why fight it.

Yes is life precious, to most yes it is. For some others not so much. So why not just allow those who appreciate and respect it, enjoy it? We as people are so afraid of death and of people dieing. Just look at our judicial system, someone can murder a person on camera, we put that person on death row and they die of old age. I think things like more modern religion have sullied the minds of most people. There were religions and beliefs long before the few we have now. They saw death not as a punishment and something that is to be avoided but as another step in their journey or it is just that a part of life. We live (relatively short lives) and we die, others are born and they go through the same process.

I am not a religious person nor do I have a philosophy I go by. For me it is more you do what you want I'll do what I want and as long as no one else gets hurt or worse then all the better.

You and I are quite alike. I have lists in my head galore. Do I work the lists? Why of course not, I forget.

As to your ideas on suicide - we do think much more alike than you think, so no, you're not really out of the norm, you just realize like I do that we are burdens on our families and would rather just not be here while the world spins on.

My son committed suicide 5 months ago. He was 32. There is no going back. No more talking to try to understand. Neither of us is perfect but he's gone, and I'm left with the living hell of my son killing himself. He decided he didn't need treatment anymore. Why the hell did he just get angry and give up?

There is nothing that I can say in support. I have no frame of reference, I have no children and I have never known anyone who has committed suicide. I am not sure words at all could comfort someone in a situation like this. I hope you can find comfort in those around you that you love and love you. If you have a religous or spiritual belief maybe you can find comfort in their teachings.

I wish I could answer your question. I can say this, for me it is tired. I am tired of struggling with physical and mental issues. Tired of struggling to live. Tired of waking up everyday to do things I despise. Tired of waking up knowing there is nothing in this world for me.

Death would be a relief for myself. Relief from being a burden. Relief, just relief.

Uncreativeartist, I happen to agree with you and others that if a person wants to end their life they should be allowed to. Someone mentioned that we can end an animal's suffering, but we can't do it for people. If a person is termianlly ill and suffering, I believe they should be allowed to end that suffering. I have a chronic medical condition that means I live my life in pain 24/7. There are people with this condition who kill themselves. There are days I understand why they do. On the days the pain is more than I think I can bear, I really understand why they do.

For me the difficulty comes when the suffering is emotional. I admit I struggle with the idea of a person ending their life due to emotional pain. It's not that emotional pain is any less difficult than physical pain. It's that most emotional pain will pass with treatment and time.

I think its more likely the emotional pain will continue and I am just going to have to keep finding ways to cope with it. Perhaps some of it can be reduced with treatment and time but some scars never completely heal no matter how hard you try to force them to.

So just not sure that applies to most emotional or psychological pain.

This is always a hot topic no matter what...But I would definately say you need to look at exactly why the person in question would want to do such a thing....I know it was already mentioned; like say someone is extreamely sick with an uncurable disease, they really don't have much time left anyway, and the natural course would would what time is left would be spent in a lot of pain, not really be able to do much, exc. then I would say let them go ahead if that is there choice.
BUT some teen that is simply depressed because a boyfriend dumped them - No way...
So it's not a clear cut thing, it's why, and a lot of other factors.

And why should it be assumed that teens only problem is getting dumped, maybe they have mental health issues as well. I attempted suicide at 15 because I felt like a burden and didn't know how else to end my suffering...If I had a boyfriend and they dumped me I am sure that may have factored in as another reason for suidcidal feelings. However if an over-all mentally healthy teen loses a boyfriend/girlfriend its more likely they may be able to move on easier.

I guess my point is when it comes to teens it can be a lot more than simply getting dumped....not sure in what mental health manual it states real mental health issues are only for adults. For many their psychological issues start long before adulthood. I hate to say it but I imagine some depressed teens are afraid to get help because they are afraid of their problems not being taken seriously and having them dismissed as normal teen drama and moodiness they will just grow out of.

Of course a teen could have plenty of other issues - they are human aren't they? - I was intentionally picking what seemed to be the absolute most ridiculous reason and circumstances for such a thing.
Basically pointing out there is a wide range there - from completely ridiculous, to regardless of how you feel about it, totally understandable reasons, and situations - and there is going to be a lot that fall somewhere in the middle.

I may be taking it a little to litterally because in my experiance people didn't take it seriously, or they took it seriously in the wrong way and I would imagine I am not the only one who's experianced that sort of inconsistent treatment. I guess I agree that would be a ridiculous reason, but I haven't really heard of anyone committing suicide for that reason alone..I think most situations fall somewhere in the middle.

I would ask that all of you truly think on this piece and keep it as a governing light when contemplating this subject. In all our time on earth, I cannot say that man has better put the question as did Shakespeare himself in

Hamlet, Act 3, Scene 1

In other words of this century: we think about it constantly, we realize it's useless to fight against the injustice in the world sometimes, but because we don't know what we will find when our being dies, we simply don't commit suicide.

Those that have done the deed were in a place where they simply didn't care what was on the other side, I think, and therefore took the moment to go without the consent of their loved ones leaving behind useless questions and heartfelt pain.

I've been on other forums that do allow people to write suicide notes or talk about intent to commit. It's highly highly stressful. I've seen posts where people as young as 12 write "I'm going to commit suicide" and I message them to try and get them to call a hotline or something. I know better than to stay up all night trying to do help them make it until the next morning and get proper treatment. I've talked to many people who didn't know any better and they put all of their energy into trying to help those posters and then at some point during their conversation, the suicidal kid stops responding. Maybe their wifi died for a day or two and they are totally fine. But what is the person on the other end going to assume? Then they blame themselves for someone else's suicide and it's just a mess. It really dragged down the environment of the whole forum. Many people basically only talk about suicide and SH and it's highly triggering

Suicide is NOT the solution & those that do this DO hurt people they leave behind!!!!

Having attempted in the past, I can tell you it wasn't that I simply didn't care about what was on the other side, I felt like I was a burden and was sick of feeling anxious and depressed all the time so I figured removing myself would be best for everyone even if they where still emotionally saddened and upset by it.

Its also hard for the family and friends who care when you end up irritable and unpleasant to be around because of how miserable you feel.

I personally have never tried it - well if I had....I don't cut corners on anything I do myself, so if I had, I would not be telling anyone about it (well maybe a psychic).
However I can tell you right now, if I ever did get sick enough to consider it at all, and was definitely no way to cure it. Well all you are going to accomplish by attempting is angering me more - and will end up actually witnessing it if you don't back off.
NOW AGAIN no one panic - this is NOT a plan, it's just stating IF it were you better stay out of my way.

Yeah that went right over my head. Is there a lamen's version that explains what that all meant?

What? - It's English, just a pretty old version! - LOL
Seriously I don't understand a lot of that either so....

I am somewhat fluent in American english (not traditional more street) and fluent in cursing. So this proper old english is way beyond me.

Actually, there is - LOL Just realize this:

Hamlet is often perceived as a philosophical character, expounding ideas that are now described as relativist, existentialist, and sceptical. For example, he expresses a subjectivistic idea when he says to Rosencrantz: "there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so".

Which means that you, uncreativeartist, are not wrong in questioning why society doesn't discuss this subject. You think it's right to discuss it, others don't. People perceive things differently and therefore express those differences.

The idea that nothing is real except in the mind of the individual finds its roots in the Greek Sophists, who argued that since nothing can be perceived except through the senses—and since all individuals sense, and therefore perceive, things differently—there is no absolute truth, only relative truth.

Same as above - people perceive things differently. Hamlet discussed suicide and decided that people live and think about suicide because life is truly hard and people are cruel; however, because people also have different ideas of what it means to die, and many are frightened of what that would mean to them, based on what they know of life and death, they don't take that final step and commit the act. Therefore, fear of the unknown makes people continue to suffer the known which is a continuation of how life will remain really hard and people will remain cruel.

The clearest alleged instance of existentialism is in the "to be, or not to be" speech, where Hamlet is thought by some to use "being" to allude to life and action, and "not being" to death and inaction.

Again, personal perceived fear of the unknown stops people from taking the final step, although they continually think of it.

Thank you all for your input on this thread. We are now closing this thread as it is very triggering for some. We ask that you do not start another thread about this. While we validate everyone's feelings and understand that this subject is something real and sometimes ongoing for some, PC does not allow talk of this as none of us are trained to handle this.

dps