[uncreativeartist]

... so bad to talk about suicide? I am sure this post will be deleted but I think this needs to be said. Why is society saying what we can talk about or do to ourselves? it's not their lives to worry about.

Not everyone likes life or wants to be a part of it, so why force them?

[The_little_didgee]

It is such a depressing and difficult issue for many people. Suicide is complicated, because it has many different causes and it hurts the ones who cared and loved the person.

I knew a man who took his life. After that I felt angry and did not understand why. Fifteen years have passed and I still don't. One does not forget, but friends and family don't stop living.

Suicide is a permanent solution.

[Leed]

Like the previous poster said" "Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem." And the problem usually IS temporary!!!

There is ALWAYS help available if you'll only look for it. Therapy is always available and it IS helpful!!! i've been thru therapy and it WORKS!

If one does not try the help that's available, it's a tragedy! And people who say they've "gone to therapy for "a while" usually didn't stay long enough. They usually went for a month or so, and that's not NEAR long enough to even say they went!! You can't get ANYTHING accomplished in a month of therapy.

And to say "not everyone in life wants to be a part of it" is selfish. You're not thinking of the people who love and care for you. Suicide is a very selfish act. The people left behind go thru hell!

I wish you the very best. God bless you and please take care of YOU. Hugs, Lee

[Blake04]

Originally Posted by uncreativeartist

Why is society saying what we can talk about or do to ourselves?

Its not. You can talk about anything you want. But this right here is not free space. Its a forum, with an owner. And the owner sets the rules. Kinda like if you came to my house and started singing old show tunes.. You're free to sing whatever you want in general, but not under my roof.

If you feel like society needs a place where its okay to discuss suicide, maybe go make your own forum?

Im not trying to sound like a jerk, because free speech is great. And i firmly believe in the saying that "If free speech means anything at all, it means the right to say what you might not want to hear."

But, when people specifically tells me they don't want to hear about something in their house/space, i respect that. And so should you.

[sunrise]

If you have a therapist, he or she should welcome talk of your suicidal thoughts and intent. If not, the therapist is not well trained and another should be sought. Other people, such as friends, may not be the best to share suicidal thoughts with, as they are not trained to deal with this. They may end up saying the wrong thing or feel burdened by the talk or just not know how to respond.

Suicide is morally neutral - it is neither right nor wrong and occurs when a person's pain has outweighed their coping mechanisms. Why there needs to be any argument at all on whether it's the 'right' thing to do seems illogical to me. I would agree however that there needs to be more education on the subject as well as support for those dealing with the implications of failed suicide or the death of someone they knew.

[H3rmit]

Originally Posted by uncreativeartist

... so bad to talk about suicide? I am sure this post will be deleted but I think this needs to be said. Why is society saying what we can talk about or do to ourselves? it's not their lives to worry about.Not everyone likes life or wants to be a part of it, so why force them?

Well, actually I think the "no suicidal posts here" (which is what I think you are responding to) refers to no posts expressing intentions, resulting in need for people to call 911 etc.

And of course society makes laws about what we can do. But decisions made with best intentions lead to problems in many cases.

It kind of depends on what you mean by talking about suicide. If you wanted to discuss it in a kind of philosophical way I could understand but I'm not sure how many people would want to be part of the discussion. If you wanted to tell us you are going to do it then I wouldn't like that. I'm pretty sure most people would be uncomfortable discussing methods.
Nobody stops anyone who is really determined to commit suicide. I see that shezbut edited your post but only to add a trigger icon, so you're okay so far.
Maybe if you gave a hint about the type of discussion you want ?

[uncreativeartist]

I really meant with real life, I understand the forums are owned by someone else and it is their rules. But I am sick of special interest groups and society saying what is right and wrong. To a degree I understand, no killing someone, no stealing and that kind of thing. But what I decide to do with my life is my choice, I feel if I do not harm anyone than what i do is my choice and mine only.

I guess I look at things differently. I feel as though if someone wants to take their life that is their choice. I should only be upset if I did not try to help someone I knew (if I knew what was going on). Why force people to do something they want nothing to do with? Would you want someone to force you to do something you don't want to do? So why force that on others?

[A Red Panda]

In regards to the forums, I think there is a no-suicidal postings for two reasons: 1) it helps stop this site from becoming one used for suicide pacts, and 2) it's a safe haven for a lot of people, and while we all try to support each other, it's fairly widely accepted that when suicide affects a community it's more likely to trigger that response in others, so preventing it here is working as a trigger-prevention for others.

In most other areas? I think it is ridiculous that when we are feeling suicidal society makes us feel like we can't speak about it unless it's with a professional or a volunteer. I think it's like that because a lot of people simply don't know how to process it.

[TippPatt]

Originally Posted by Blake04

Its not. You can talk about anything you want. But this right here is not free space. Its a forum, with an owner. And the owner sets the rules. Kinda like if you came to my house and started singing old show tunes.. You're free to sing whatever you want in general, but not under my roof.

If you feel like society needs a place where its okay to discuss suicide, maybe go make your own forum?

Im not trying to sound like a jerk, because free speech is great. And i firmly believe in the saying that "If free speech means anything at all, it means the right to say what you might not want to hear."

But, when people specifically tells me they don't want to hear about something in their house/space, i respect that. And so should you.

I'll give you a big AMEN on that posting. You said that very well.

I would suggest uncreativeartist go make herself a blog to get those need to words said. Then you can invite folks you find to read what you've written and comment on whatever you've said. It's a much nicer way to speak on a subject that is paramount to you yet not paramount or healthy for a full throated forum with vulnerable people peaking in, which is what THIS place is.

Besides uncreativeartist, you seem to have several subjects of which you'd like to be in charge of --- like the chat problems you've posted of - perhaps that blog will help you with that?

Being the boss when it comes to brain related diseases and malfunctions isn't for the faint of heart when dealing with a complex organ like the brain. I'm sure they're simply being cautious.

[uncreativeartist]

Originally Posted by TippPatt

I'll give you a big AMEN on that posting. You said that very well.

I would suggest uncreativeartist go make herself a blog to get those need to words said. Then you can invite folks you find to read what you've written and comment on whatever you've said. It's a much nicer way to speak on a subject that is paramount to you yet not paramount or healthy for a full throated forum with vulnerable people peaking in, which is what THIS place is.

Besides uncreativeartist, you seem to have several subjects of which you'd like to be in charge of --- like the chat problems you've posted of - perhaps that blog will help you with that?

Being the boss when it comes to brain related diseases and malfunctions isn't for the faint of heart when dealing with a complex organ like the brain. I'm sure they're simply being cautious.

See my point is misunderstood, my comments were meant for real life. I understand there are rules on forums and I am not the boss. I HAVE NOT ONCE MENTIONED THAT I WANT TO BE OR NEED TO BE THE BOSS. Where did I say this?

Sorry I want people to show respect to others in a situation like a chat room. There are rules and they should be obeyed. It is a community and people should respect others in that community (esepcially in a community like this where there are sensitive subjects and feelings). So again sorry that I demand respect for the community from the community.

I guess you are not used to people who speak their minds and what they feel. That is me though, no lieing, no b.s. just what I think and feel.

[TippPatt]

I do get that you weren't trying to be the boss. I did however notice that you didn't recognize the boss was already there - Dr. John. It wasn't your place to agree or disagree with how he was running the session - that's the part you don't get, I think.

Now - as to this idea -- which is a different subject and the one I posted on, what do you think of my blog idea for you?

Just a thought ---- perhaps your font being so large is giving me the impression that you're about to scream at me - pink or not, including the caps.......

[uncreativeartist]

Originally Posted by TippPatt

I do get that you weren't trying to be the boss. I did however notice that you didn't recognize the boss was already there - Dr. John. It wasn't your place to agree or disagree with how he was running the session - that's the part you don't get, I think.

Now - as to this idea -- which is a different subject and the one I posted on, what do you think of my blog idea for you?

Just a thought ---- perhaps your font being so large is giving me the impression that you're about to scream at me - pink or not, including the caps.......

Only yelling was the caps part, nothing else. I was not trying to say that DocJohn was running things wrong, he handled the situation better than I think most people would have. It was the fact the same people kept coming back and doing the same thing. Ok this is the last I will say on that subject.

I could not do a blog I am not very articulate and as you can see things I say get misunderstood because of it. Besides I do not have the time or money to commit to doing a blog or my own forum. It would be nice to have one so people like myself have a place that they can talk about the things they want and need to without fear of being banned or castrated or sent to a hospital.

I also do not get why it is illegal to do what we are talking about or help someone. That really is my point, society sticking it's nose where it does not belong.

[bebop]

the intention of this rule is because there are so many caring people here and like most they have their own issues. This being a mental health site, people are not trained to talk someone down from suicide and most feel very helpless and responsible for others here. It triggers people really bad that are already dealing with their own depression and it makes it worse. I hope that helps.

[TippPatt]

uncreativeartist I'm going to give you two free ideas that you can set up for yourself. One is a program that's free that sets up your very own daily diary, one is the blog program I suggested in the first place, also free.

The difference is, you can share web wide the blog, but not the diary. And NO you are not inarticulate. I personally think your font makes you intimidating, but that's me, so blow that off. LOL You could very well be able to work your sentences again and again and make them perfectly say what you're thinking.

Diary Link

Blog Link

You have a great deal to say on suicide. And I do too, to be honest, but as above, it's just not the place. I guarantee, if you set up the blog and let me know, I'll visit.

Cheers

[Hellion]

Well as someone who has ongoing issues with suicidal thinking, I think one of the main concerns with it is maybe the individual doesn't want to die so much as end the pain, or because they feel like they are just burdening friends and family or whatever.

So I think it makes sense to want to provide an alternative, I mean if someone has their mind set on suicide they'll find away...but many times when its intervened on the individual is glad not to have succeeded. Many times there are alternative ways to make things more bearable but its hard to see when you're suicidal.

So yeah I suppose I cannot say people should just be left to off themselves without anyone trying to intervene, but if someone really does not want to be here not sure they should be forced to remain either.

[winter4me]

suicide never is something that "hurts no one else".

[Perna]

Originally Posted by uncreativeartist

But I am sick of special interest groups and society saying what is right and wrong.

Everyone has and is entitled to their opinion and there are a lot of SIGs out there that I feel are wronger than the wrongest of us! There's no such thing as "society", you cannot point to it, whatever you are responding to is your own perception of what "society" is.

I could talk about or tell anyone I wanted to, take ads out, etc. if I wanted to commit/talk about suicide; I don't think I would want to though because I can not see the "point"?

It is your "right" to kill yourself, no one can stop you if you really want to do that. It would upset the people around you, some of them that had to "clean up" after it it might upset badly (a woman in my apartment building who I knew jumped from her 6th floor apartment down the hall from me) and so the people in our communities who are charge of taking care of the mess one would make by committing suicide do pass laws, etc. Suicide is expensive to a community, both in the "clean up" and in the emotional toll it takes on those left. Family and friends are left with the pain, anger, and confusion of a loved one's suicide, often for many generations. My great grandfather killed himself, all because of pride/money (and probably because he was Irish/genetically inclined to depression?). My grandmother and her sisters and all their families were out of town on vacation and the authorities did not tell my great grandmother until some of them had returned (after my great uncles were told, no doubt, and had to break the news to their wives, my grandmother and her two sisters), the next day. My mother died when she was 40, I was 3; same grandmother whose father killed himself. . . I can't imagine the pain she must have felt.

It's been almost 100 years but there are ripple effects. . .

[-jimi-]

Over the years I have lost online friends and many more acquaintances to suicide and that had happened regardless of what it is allowed to talk about. Shutting up does not equal preventing and I actually have been active part of preventing suicides. So the own your own site thing... I already do that.

Around where I live you don't talk about death period. I'm not sure if it is because we don't usually believe in heaven and that stuff, when you do you can at least say something about people being in heaven. It opens up for discussion at least. Only time we speak about death is when it actually happens and then it is forgotten again. So talk about suicide here... um... no. Despite this, there are always clans of friends who talk about whatever they want to. Glad about that!

[uncreativeartist]

Actually it is society or government or what you want to call it, that made a law that suicide and helping those who want it, illegal. Where do they have the right? I guess my thinking is too different than the "norm".

Actually in my case there would be no problems. Actually it will fix problems like having to help support me or deal with any number of my problems. It would probably be relief for the few people I know.

TippPatt: I really cannot do something like that. I really am not that smart and really no one wants to hear what I have to say. My other problem is remembering to do it. I already have a list of things I need to be doing and keeping track of and I forget those things all the time. Only way I remember is with notes.

[Hellion]

Why should it be a problem that you might need help and support? I really doubt those willing to support and help you would agree with your opinion that its better if you weren't around....if they are like that though maybe you need to try and find support and help elsewhere. I have felt like people would be better off without me a number of times...so I certainly get that. My short term memory sucks and I forget things and lose things all the time and have to right notes, then sometimes I lose those to...but it doesn't mean I should off myself even if I feel like it sometimes.

don't know that any of that is helpful

[redbandit]

Originally Posted by Leed

Like the previous poster said" "Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem." And the problem usually IS temporary!!!

There is ALWAYS help available if you'll only look for it. Therapy is always available and it IS helpful!!! i've been thru therapy and it WORKS!

If one does not try the help that's available, it's a tragedy! And people who say they've "gone to therapy for "a while" usually didn't stay long enough. They usually went for a month or so, and that's not NEAR long enough to even say they went!! You can't get ANYTHING accomplished in a month of therapy.

And to say "not everyone in life wants to be a part of it" is selfish. You're not thinking of the people who love and care for you. Suicide is a very selfish act. The people left behind go thru hell!

I wish you the very best. God bless you and please take care of YOU. Hugs, Lee

What about if the problem isn't temporary? My problems have been with me all my life and it doesn't seem to be getting any better

[shezbut]

Perhaps you should talk with your T about this philosophy that the world would be no different without you, uncreativeartist.

This thread seems to be bordering closely to too triggering. Please try to keep the conversation philosophical and respectful towards one another. Otherwise, this post will need to be closed.

Thank you!

[-jimi-]

Ugh I don't like the temporary problem thing either.

I'd rather see it as a strength that I managed to live despite my problems.