Lack of understanding (MAY TRIGGER)

Now, before i begin, i apologise if this is in the wrong forum, i cannot think of the appropriate forum for this to go in.

this is very triggering, so approach with caution if you are offended easily.

i was just sat down at the dinner table with my family, there were 5 of us there and we were all having pleasant conversations. until a few topics came up that hurt me so i had to defend it, they were:

1. my family were saying that people who dont drink alcohol are wierd, so i said "i dont drink, am i wierd?". as you may be able to guess nobody dared reply so the subject moved on...

2. after dinner, whilst we were all still at the table my sisters boyfriend started reading the paper, and there was an article about a self-harmer who cut their arms, int otal she had cut about 2000 marks. my sisters bf sat there and said openly "people who do that are mental". now i think its fair to say that that kind of comment is wrong, i dont mind people having opinions but i strongly disagree with the condemning attitude some people have. so again, because it effected me (i used to self harm years ago that they didnt know about. plus, i know several people here at PC who self harm and i wouldnt ever think of them as mental or anything like that, it doesnt mean anything because you self harm, its an emotional state of mind you are in at the time). so i sat there and said "i self-harmed in the past, am i mental?". again, the subject rapidly moved on. i could of carried that debate on and argued that its not being "mental" at all. but they know that if someone upsets or offends me, they will know about it. i seem to have this gift of stopping an arguement, debate, or even a conversation quite quickly and fairly too. flase opinions arent valid in my eyes, and i detest people who look down on others for being slightly different. i actually find it quite offensive, mainly because i have been there myself and i know so many fantastic people here who are also in this situation, and i think people here are fantastic, and i am honoured i know people here.

and finally, 3. my sisters bf (again, he started it) was saying about this handicapped person he works with, and they were taking the mik so much out of him, and it was disgusting to listen to. i didnt join in with this conversation, i just sat there eating my dinner and stayed quiet, i couldnt believe the conversations that had taken place today, it was sickening to be honest. i couldnt listen to that, its wrong to condemn people for having a handicap, so all i said was "shut up, thats not fair!", and the conversation did move on.

i am outraged at the type of people i am surrounded by in my life, they have such sick attitudes on fellow humans, and i felt so offended today at that dinner table. people can be so rude about others just because they are "different" than themselves. i am glad people are different, and i am glad people have more to their characters than my family do.

what do you do when confronted with a situation such as this? it was downright prejudice and it was wrong to sit there and listen to it without sticking up for them. im just shocked to think that these people are my family, who share the same genes as me. i am just so thankful i am so different.

let me know your opinions on this and i am very sorry if this was in any way triggering for you. but i had to talk about it here, it offends me too much to sit there and listen to it and to stay quiet. it just isnt me!

simon

I know just the way you feel. I realy have a problem with people who say racist things and a lot of the people I'm surrounded by do. Sometimes I try to argue with them but they can be so stuborn! I get so angry when somebody says bad things about other people when they havn't even tried to understand them first.
I don't know what one can actually do except stand up for your beliefs, and don't just let them get away with saying such things that hurt you too, at least make them a little angry if not embarrased for saying such things about other people who they havn't made the least effort to understand.

I think it's more fear and ignorance than predudice and I would have maybe tried to educate the people rather than just stop the conversation; people are going to think what they're going to think and getting it out in the "open" is the only way it can be dealt with and "helped."

I would have pointed out the pain the people are in, how they're ostracized by people like you (the ignorant people commenting) because of their fear and ignorance and only then would I point out that I was like them and that "I get along with you all right, don't I?" and tried to get them to see more sides to the equation, that the person self-harming was not some monster wholly unlike them; that being handicapped can happen at any time (I have a good friend who is quadriplegic because he decided to dive off a bridge into the river as he had many times before when he was 19 only the tide was out) and "how would you like it if I made fun of you after you were in a car accident or had a stroke?"

I hear this stuff every time I ride the city buses where someone will be pointing and making fun of someone. I look at them and lift up my jeans pant leg and sometimes I hand them my brace and say it only takes one person running a red light for them to be wearing more handicapped equipment then they are at the moment making fun of. They shut up very quick and usually appologize.

I don't think you can educate people who are adults & so ignorant. I wouldn't waste my time getting upset about it. Just be glad you are more intelligent & enlightened & try not to spend too much time around them!

My father was of the opinion that there is no such thing as a mental illness. You couldn't reason with him so I didn't try & I only saw him on my "duty" visits.--Suzy

First off, just a quick comment, I don't want to laugh at your pain, so don't be offended, but I burst out laughing at nr 1! I'm the weirdo in the family too and just to imagine their faces and glances!!!!

People who self-harm aren't mental at all, and yes, it is very insensitive to say that. As I see it, it's just an unhealthy way of expressing emotion, like smoking is an unhealthy way of relieving stress. Bad habit...

You were right not to argue with them, people like that have a very distorted view of the world. Maybe your sister's bf is very insecure about himself and puts others down to make himself feel superior? I have find that some people just go through life and think that anything abnormal is classified as "mental" IMO, these people are the mental ones! But sadly you cannot change their views of life by arguing, you can only hope that... (ok let's not hope for that!)

I know how frustrating it is to be in the company of people who refuse to try and understand other people. They think they are always right and that the rest of the world is wrong...

I think that it is important to speak up and let people know that we don't support the hurtful biases they are expressing. Most likely you're not the only one, but it is hard to stand up to bullies (or even people who speak out in ignorance without considering their words before opening their mouths). Once you state your position, others will probably support you, even if it is only silently. Not to say anything adds your assent to what has been said.

Those of us who are not right now significaltly impaired by disabilities, of whatever sort, could consider ourselves "temporarily able." None of us know what might happen tomorrow or how we would deal with it.

Rap

That is true Rhap, we never know what might happen. As for speaking up, it is probably the right thing to do, but I think in Simon's case it would have ended worse than it started. Maybe I'm just a coward????

(I don't wnat to upset you... just thinking)

(((((((((Simon)))))))))))

I so understand.

My family is not understanding or sympathetic or empathetic to any group of individuals different than themselves ...

And that includes those with disabilities like myself. (And something my family doesn't know, I'm also a person with a mental illness who does/did self-harm).

Good for you for speaking up though for what you believe. I've tried, and it hasn't worked so well.

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am outraged at the type of people i am surrounded by in my life, they have such sick attitudes on fellow humans, and i felt so offended today at that dinner table. people can be so rude about others just because they are "different" than themselves. i am glad people are different, and i am glad people have more to their characters than my family do.

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Thumbs up for that comment. That sadly applies to my family as well.

I've been confronted by this before and I can't seem to stop it because my family doesn't care if they offend me, because they always manage to put the spin on it that it was "just a joke". Which is a lie in the case of my family because otherwise they're jokers all the time.

Anyways thats my two cents on this.

{{{{{{{{{{{{Simon}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} I think your sister's boyfriend is narrow minded and uncaring. Please stop and think before you judge all of the people that were at that table, Hon. Some of them just might not have the courage to stand up for what they believe and would rather just go with the flow.

YOU still come out the shining star, Sweety!

i understand what each and everyone of you says. i did make my opinions clear, my family know how strong minded i am and they know i am different to them (they've often commented on it, saying i dont seem part of this family because i am so different from each one of them). my beliefs are the opposites of theirs, and when they say something that is morally wrong (such as today), i always debate it and turn it around on themselves, showing them that they are the ones with the problem for thinking this way. i dont do it all the time, just when topics like todays are brought up, you know, people with those opinions shouldnt be allowed to have opinions because it is these people who mke those less fortunate feel even more unhappy, and less human. and personally...i think it is wrong. thats why, at dinner today, as soon as those comments were made and i made a simple but effective response the conversation moved on because they know what i am capable of. im not bigging myself up, making out im so hard, i just have a way around putting these "bullies" in their place. obviously, with a family like mine, ive had several years of practice. i just know that as soon as they realised what they said was wrong, they moved on to avoid a debate becauuse they know how it will end. i always stick up for what i believe in, no matter who's toes i step on.

i dont necessarily argue as such, i just put them in their place by saying a few selective words that have alot of meaning.

im prepared to be the voice for those who are unable to shout loudly. thats the best way i can put it.

simon

{{{{{{{{{{{Simon}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

septembermorn, unfortunately i know that each person at that table hold those beliefs, my dad for instance, is homophobic, sexist, racist etc. he has very strong beliefs because thats how his parents brought him up. and unfortunately, my bro and sis absorbed these beliefs but i was the lucky one by being so strong minded.

what makes me different to them then, why did i reflect these beliefs away from myself and believe my own beliefs? interesting question isnt it.

simon

Hi Simon..

You & I have spoken about this before...
No matter where you live in this world, there are always people who can never see anything beyond themselves & their perfect little "bubble world" as I like to call it, where anything that they don't consider normal, is looked upon with utter disgust!!!

I too look around & wonder what this world is coming too.... Everyone deserve the right to be here & to be happy & I too are sickened by people who judge those who are different.

Those bubble people will never be able to comprehend or understand our situations, they see us as weak, yet we are still here surviving & working through our issues, while they continue to ridicule & judge those different from themselves.

(((((((((((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))))))))
Flinty

Hi, Simon.

I am not a drinker, either. I never was much of a drinker, and the doctor told me years ago to lay off the stuff, due to a liver problem. Quitting something you hardly do is not that difficult. Nonetheless, some people don't think a person can have fun if they don't drink. I went through that a lot in earlier years. I am now 55, and I find that people respect me for not drinking.

As for cutters being "mental", self-harm is a psychological condition, as is OCD, ADHD, and many others. My daughter went through that in her early teens, along with a list of other problems. Her psychiatrist has helped her immensely. She lives a much more normal life now at 26.

I grew up with an older sister who was developmentally diabled. Although whe went to special ed classes for a few years (they were all experimental at that time), she was incapable of academic learning. Physically, she was as normal as anyone, but mentally she could not compete. My other sister and I learned early that not all people are really created equal. A lot of kids laughed and pointed at her, which really upset me I think today's young people are more understanding of disabled people, both mental and physical, because they are exposed to it more. Most of the schools have special ed programs, and they interact with the "normal" kids regularly.

If you are outraged by the people in your life, get different people in your life. I know that it is easier said than done, but make an effort to meet new people.

As for your family, they are like all others, not perfect. They love you, and they probably respect you greatly for abstaining from alcohol.

GW

I think that is all in a circle, this doesn’t happen form night to day; this is something that runs in families for so long. Let me tell you exactly what I think.
It is a mix of:
-Ignorance.
-0000 self-confidence.
-fear
-and not enough balls to just cut the cycle; like you are trying to do it.
There are these kind of people everywhere and standing for you believe and know is the best you can do, but also, I will strongly suggest for you to find your own place, to get well enough so you can be able to live by yourself and not have to deal with these triggers.
Simon, I don't know you that much, but I can tell that you are not just a great person, but somebody that has a lot to offer to others.
I really appreciate you standing for all those who were so unfairly judge.
Thank you!

Ohh and I have to say, I saw you in action, the other day when we were chatting wiht Cusack.
Thank you for that too!

Ignorance is Bliss.....so true so true.

If one never opens the eyes, mind, heart and soul, then one doesn't have to think about another's difficulties. It's so much easier to judge without truly knowing the situation. What breed's this kind of thing? FEAR.....no matter how unfounded.

One of the best things my mom taught me as a child was this saying, "If you haven't got something nice to say, then don't say anything at all." It gave me reason to look for something nice to say, and it stopped me in my tracks before I could say something harmful to others.

Educating people who are ignorant (for whatever reason) is our responsibility. But, it must be done in a respectful way...as we all wish to be respected. I know you may not think that the person who needs education deserves any respect since they have already disrespected others, but how else do they learn respect, if it's not shown to them??? I know this is a very difficult thing to do when emotions are high.

I'm sorry Simon, that you had to endure that kind of disrespect during your family dinner. It's so frustrating and sad to know that people can't see past their own issues and have compassion for others differences. Luckily, you have risen above their ignorance and you have broken their mold! YAY!!

I feel sorry for them....sorry that they may never experience the wonderful things that others who are different have to offer.

Take good care!

I can understand how it feels to be surrounded by people who don't think. They must have been traumatized in some way to have such "opinions". If there are mental people in this world I think it's those who do not want to think. Nowadays I stay away from people who I don't feel comfortable with. I believe depression etc are often created by a crappy environment, cos u are in conflict with the surroundings and have to fight against. It's important to be with people who understand and care and accept. But as someone said, there might be people in the table who don't have the courage to stand up and say. Be proud of urself u did. But the thing, hard for me to accept as well, is that u can't change people.

Simon,

I used to be one of the ones on the other side of drinking.. and to be honest looked at others who didn't drink and thought they were a little weird..my whole family did not drink..now that I do not drink at all..I look back at those times and think..where was the fun in any of that?? Maybe a little here and there..but I sure am having a lot more fun now..not drinking..and I look at people who don't drink with a hell of a lot more respect..but it took me to be on both sides to get that way..SOME people just can't see both sides..and never will..I wish it was not so.

As for the self injurers, I too used to be a self injurer and know what it is like to be looked upon as if you are mental because of it. I believe those particular people are uneducated and scared of something they have no knowledge about. I guarantee if they knew someone who was experiencing it or knew a little bit about it themselves they would be a little more sympathetic toward it..at least we could hope so, right?

As for people with Disabilities, Simon, this pisses me off just about as much as it does you..I look at these people the same as I would anyone else..another human being..a person who has overcome a challenge..someone that should be treated with the same respect as the next..and when someone puts them down and disrespects them simply for the fact that they are different in some way really really sets me off..and like you Simon I always voice my opinion..I have worked in many organizations and charities with disabled children and adults..and I can not stand for one of them to be put down and disrespected by another child or adult in any way..and should the need arise when someone should have to step in and voice such an opinion..its normally me and MY big mouth!!

Simon, I applaud your ability to speak your mind even when your beliefs aren't popular. Too many people just chime in and go along with that kind of total ignorance/prejudice so that the people won't turn on them.
I could give you lots of hugs for that. ((((((((((Simon))))))))))
It reminds me of an old saying "Don't let the turkeys get you down."