[cantstandit]

My wife of three years has a 14 y/o son who is really on my last nerve! ( My wife too) seemingly normal kid. Regular school,regular classes, well spoken. There are many problems such as talking back, lies and being very dirty.

By very dirty I mean he messes his pants every day and then sits in it until he is forced to clean himself . Even then he sometimes fakes getting a shower.

I thought it was because of me being with his mother but she and others in her family have told my it has been going on since he was 6. My wife kept telling me she thinks its a medical condition but three different doctors have told her that there is no medical reason for this behavior. My thoughts were if it was medical ,why does he sit in it as long as he can.

After seeing a psychologist for 5 or 6 visits we were told there is nothing she can do. She said it was behavioral and my wife needs to lay down the law and make consequences for such behaviors.

My wife refuses to do this . She seems O.K. with all of his problems. I on the other hand have pretty much removed myself from any interactions with him and do not go any where when he is involved.(its very hard to be in a car with him and the smell.

I have begged and pleaded with my wife to do something to stop him but her answer is always the same. "I don't want any negative things in his life"

I don't know any other way to asked her .I think I've tried every thing. Any suggestions?

[nothemama8]

when did his biological father step out of the relationship, he (the son) could be acting out because of the abandonment

I've heard of a similar thing happening at 6 years of age. To my mind... That was reason for concern.

I'm very worried about the fact that psychologists have said little but that it is time that she lays down the law. I'm not quite sure what to make of that.

To my mind... That is a very serious disturbance, however.

I guess... I don't really know much about this particular problem... But I would surely want to know more about it given the circumstances. I would want to know firstly what sort of intervention psychologists (or other health professionals) would reccomend, and secondly... Why it hasn't been implemented well before now...

[katheryn]

sorry to hear you are experincing dificulties with your wife son, i have a son who is 15 and will be 16 in september, you might not understand this but my son is adhd he also ,esses himself and sometimes sits in his on mess, there is a medical thing for this i have use of a adhd were other pppl talk about similer things,
my son up to the age of 6 would do this several times a day , we now have him in a routin that helps us and him,
he has his meds as i wake him first thing in the morning he then sits and eats his breakfast, then he takes nintendo ds and sits on the toilet for at least half an hour making sure i tell him that the time is and giving him ten mins before he is due to get dressed reminding him after 5mins, if he misses this routine or does not take his adhd medication he will not be able to sit and go to the toilet, im not telling you this is why your step son is like this but i understand why this is frustrating, my son still wont tell me he has done this he trys to hide it from us,you are welcome to p.m any time

[Bethsway]

not sure what is causing his behavior...but the mom should know that this is negativity in his life already...How can he have a normal life living like that...he will never have any friends his own age...I would look for another therapist...maybe someone can help! Good luck to you all!!

Although I'm glad you're here and I am so sorry for your situation, your family needs more help than will be available to you on a computer site. You, your wife, and your stepson deserve a second, third opinion and some real intervention/help. That this has gone on so long means it won't be a quick fix; there are many aspects to what is going on.

What does your stepson say when you talk about this with him? Does he realize it is a problem and that it is not acceptable? Have you ever suggested that he not be allowed in the car, at the dinner table, out of his bedroom...unless he is clean? What does he do with his time? Do his friends mind that he is this way? Does he go to school this way and if so, what does the school say about it?

If your wife and stepson won't go to therapy, I hope you will go for yourself as you have quite a bit to deal with here.

Best wishes to you and your family.

[(JD)]

Well, of course you and your wife need to go to counseling to find a middle ground (or to find out which of you is "right") and have a concerted effort.

I think... IMO... that he either has a medical problem with muscle control or sensing issue to begin with.. and / or he is acting out, trying to force you to show you care and discipline him.

Children want attention, if negative is all they can get, then they will take that. Try giving him the postive attention that your wife insists upon?

I would speak calmly and evenly to him about this problem. Perhaps your upset, and his knowing you can't do anything about it feeds his actions. Make sure that you come to grips with this problem first, that it really isn't your personal problem and nothing by his doing this makes you any less of a person.

I would share with him how this only reflects upon him. That if he is having physical difficulty controlling this normal body function, then there is help by medical doctors for it. That he seems to enjoy sitting in it really only reflects upon him. That perhaps he does that to keep ppl away, and to ward off other events that he fears. Be ok with this, but certainly put his actions onto his shoulders, calmly.

When he was younger he may have had different reasons to do this, and allow this. Now that he is older, though some of it might be habit, he is old enough to change his decision.

Maybe the two of you can agree on a few guidelines for him? Like, he needs to wash his own clothes? That isn't negative, but might open his eyes and mind. Explain how he will be looking for a job before long, and want that spending money....and how he might want to begin better self care to do that.

Also, here are some webs sites that might help.

http://www.psychnet-uk.com/dsm_iv/encopresis.htm

http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/simplep...ncopresis.html

[cantstandit]

Thanks for the replies. I have told my wife a million times that if the soiling problem was medical I don't have a big problem with it. The fact that refuses to clean himself afterwards is where my problem lies.

He knows that it isn't proper for me to use the toilet and not spray and close the door when i'm done, so he knows what he should do for himself.

I love this boy and want him to have a great life. I'm afraid if this continues that his life may not be so great. As for my wife not making an effort it is only the part of making him clean himself up or face some kind of consequences where I think the effort is lacking.

Thanks again for the replies

is he intellectually handicapped?

(i mean this quite seriously)

[Zen888]

imo....I think his personal cleanliness or lack of it screams loudly of how he sees and feels about himself...worthless...so why bother. And a lot of vent up anger and rage.

His mother needs to step up to the plate a be a mother instead of ignoring her son who is obviously in distress. He should if he hasnt been to one already ... be evaluated by a psychiatrist. 5-6 visits to a psychologist isnt a bench mark for what he has or doesn't have...you or your wife need to advocate on his behalf...and get him the medical attention he needs.

Take Care

i agree with all and i second Alex's question. i could see this in an Alzheimer's patient...in any patient's home where i visit, the protocol is BLEACH...the caregivers are under order to disinfect on a daily basis............and i can tell that they do because of an absence of odors and the faint smell of the disinfectants.


e.coli kills .......if nothing else, your wife should be told that........he can infect your food chain......infect door knobs...you name it.........you'll all be down if the proper hygiene isn't established. having worked in a hospital, i've seen e.coli patients. it ain't purty. massive doses of i.v. antibiotics and some very sick people.

your family needs some really serious therapy and intervention.....
are there other children? they're being put at risk, if so......

[Rapunzel]

Remember that all behavior has a purpose behind it. If it were not serving some function, there would be no reason for him to continue it. One common reason for toileting problems is that when children feel that there is nothing in their lives that they can control (a common feeling for children of divorce), they emphasize the things they can control. They can control their toileting and whether or not they conform to the parents' standards.

What things does he have control of in his life? What choices does he have? Can he reasonably be given more choices? The first thing to address is to find out the function of the behavior and how else his needs could be met.

The next thing that you need to know is what motivates him? What does he really like? Once you know that, you can set up a reward system and give him something to work towards by doing what you would like him to do. For example, if he likes playing video games, he could earn five minutes of game time for each hour that he is clean. Over a longer period, he could save up points towards being able to purchase a new game.

Some things to remember are to start small. The goal is to increase time that he is clean. You probably won't eliminate the problem all at once, and any gain is to be celebrated, even if it is small. The goal needs to be positive (an increase such as increase in time that he is clean), rather than negative (stopping or decreasing the accidents). It just doesn't work to eliminate a behavior without replacing it with something. Other targets could be using the bathroom or cleaning himself promptly.

Another point to remember is not to think of the program as punishment in any way. You want to encourage good behavior, not to make him pay for bad behavior.

He would probably make the most progress if his mother primarily implements the program, as he might be resistant to anyone he considers an intruder or outsider in his life. However, divorced parents tend to feel bad and try to make up for it by being overly permissive, so it might be hard for her to overcome that.

I am also wondering if he is developmentally disabled (if he is, you can still use these ideas - I use them with my clients, who are developmentally disabled). Who cleans up after him? Does he wear incontinent briefs? How often, where, and when do the accidents occur? What are the current consequences when it happens? Does he do it at school, or just when he is with his family?

[Perna]

Cantstandit, I soiled when I was a child and grew into a teenager who didn't bathe/wash her hair, etc. I didn't soil as late as your stepson but maybe I can help a little.

When my mother was sick and in the hospital for many months when I was a toddler, I became untoilet-trained :-) and my father and I had a "battle" about it (says my aunt) where he'd use laxatives but I'd outlast him and when I was finally in clean underpants, would go then (nothing like a passive-aggressive toddler in training :-) Anyway, that all got resolved, my mother died and my father remarried when I was 5. When I was 7, he was in the Navy and went to sea for 8 months! I started soiling and boy was it embarrassing, being at school (had a teacher have to sniff me out one day)! We even had our own bathrooms in our classrooms so it wasn't like I had to go down the hall or anything. But I'd never raise my hand.

The big thing is that I didn't know why I was doing it, it wasn't "intentional" and I felt powerless to stop. My stepmother abused me horribly over it (have you ever had to take a bath in a bathtub with only a couple inches of water and several shovelfuls of garden dirt in it, complete with bugs and sticks, stones, etc.?) and was on my case constantly. When my father came back, it straightened out. But, when I became about your stepson's age, my stepmother and I started battling about bathing. I would work very hard a "pretending" to bathe without doing it.

I think your stepson is in a will struggle with you over his mother. I don't know what to suggest but I'm pretty sure your stepson is unhappy/miserable and has no clue why he's doing/not doing what he is and wishes there were some way out.

Were I you, I would cease avoiding him, cease commenting on the problem and go to therapy myself to see how to "help" by my interactions with him to shift your stepson's behavior if I could. I don't know what happened when he was 6 and started this but I'd look at everything then and see what "similar" thing is being perpetuated now. Back in the early 1950s when I had my problems there wasn't any chance of therapy or "understanding" what was going on and my stepmother just thought I was being difficult like you feel about your stepson. I was protesting my father going away in the only way I knew only there was no one to make any connections and either reassure me or "help" me in any other sort of way.

I suspect something happened with his real father when he was six and your wife's/his mother's pretending that nothing is/has been happening isn't helping, as you're very aware. But it may be that you can help the most but I'd go to a therapist and see how you can change your behavior with your stepson so it is most beneficial to both of you (and maybe get some insight into what, if anything, you can do to get your wife interested; maybe some joint therapy or something).

It might get very ugly as I don't know how you can convince your wife to get her head out of the sand and "help" other than to threaten to leave which will ultimately threaten her son. Could be he feels somewhere responsible for his father leaving, etc. but being a child there are no words for that, only "action." If you can get yourself secure so you can reassure everyone else honestly, that's what I'd aim for. At this late date, I don't think words alone will do it though.

Are you familiar with Parent Effectiveness Training (PET)? That might help you, don't know http://www.enotalone.com/article/4535.html

[alisandria]

Besides all the other great advice given here, the only think I could think of, is was he sexually molested as a child? That sometimes will cause theis type of behavior. Whatever the case is, it might not have a medical origin ie. physiological, but very well does sound like a psychological manifestation. I agree with taking him to a psychiatrist for an evaluation.

Until that point, keep a fresh perspective on it, you love him, you know this isn't right, stepping back and looking on it you can see why would anyone want to do this to himself??? Hope you can find the reason for it soon, and gain a solution as well.

hugs Lisa