Jessica Lundsford

Sorry gang, I still believe, "an eye for an eye. . ."
There is no rehabilitation for these monsters, and they deserve to suffer the way their victims and the victim's families suffer, or even worse.
I get so tired of the wishy washy, who feel these perps deserve "fair" treatment. Give me a break.
For those pacifists (sp?) out there, just pray your own child or children never become victims. So easy for those who do not share of suffer from the loss, to be so ready to "forgive". Give me a break!!
These monsters MUST suffer, even die, as those they victimized and/or killed.
Wake up America!!

Okay, my rant is done for the day, please, no one come back and snap at me, I'm only speaking of my own personal feelings.

Thanks,
DE

I tried to skip reading this but then I clicked on. Remember to those of you who are gleefully hoping he has a long slow painful death - relishing a death is a special circumstance or aggravating factor in most states that would qualify someone for the death penalty - so be careful you are not morally at risk of becoming that which we all so clearly abhor. Life in prison without the possibility of parole is a stern punishment plus it drastically cuts down on the appeal process and therefore on the additional stress a victim's family must go through. May God give you the sight to see that killing people who kill people is simply wrong. Blessed are the merciful for they shall obtain mercy.

Hi DE:
Let me make this perfectly clear, de, don't misunderstand me. I too believe in an eye for an eye. If I had the chance to execute these perps, I'd be the one dropping the pellits myself, or turn the switch..............but only if I knew beyond the shadow of a doubt that the person
is GUILTY. Beyond that, I think Gods' justice is a bit too slow sometimes???? However: his boot is swift when he does come to it and the perp I had got the worst case of liver cancer you could. And he SUFFERED.......looked like a bic banana for a while. I pretended to care so my mother
wouldn't find out how RELIEVED I was that judgement day
was here and he had no choice. He never said I'm sorry or
told my mother what he did on his death bed.........what kind
of marine was that???? don't answer.

God's truths are pretty simple. Christ's teachings are pretty clear. It's life that is complicated and muddy sometimes. No one can imagine the pain one suffers at the hands of evil but another who has suffered the same fate. Christ remains my example and my teacher and at no time was it okay with him to kill another human being. No matter His story or my own story for that matter, and forget my rationale for vengence on another Christ's teaching remain consistent. Love will set you free. God is Love. The greatest of which is Love. Love your enemies.... It's all about love. Jesus revealed himself that we might know God. God is Love. We are born to love.

I understand why people are angry and why they might want vengence when evil acts are committed. I know those feelings too. But no act of vengence can ever be enough. Christ taught us that and my own experiences have affirmed it to be true for me.

I wish not to raise the anger of people here because I am sharing views contrary to some. It is a delicate subject that gets complicated by individual sensibilities and life experiences. I just don't see for what end vengence serves? Can the need for vengence every be satisfied without eventually coming to a place of forgiveness? Forgiveness is about setting the victim free. It's not about avoiding consequences. It is about healing and reconsiliation not more death and distruction.

I appreciate that some of us may see things differently from others and that makes me all the more grateful for the freedom to be able to disagree even on topics as senstive and controvercial as this.

Take care every one....

How life unfolds for each of us that we might learn how to walk in love is the miracle of each of our stories.

So there's no room in your life for righteous anger? There was in Jesus' life. Remember him throwing out the money lender from the temple? He even overturned their tables as he spoke harsh words to them.

The money lenders were violating his Father's house. He became angry... and threw them out. The Bible speaks of our bodies as temples of the same Father. Thieves entered the temples of God and violated them. I see absolutely nothing wrong with wanting punishment for these most vile of theives.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
i feel the same for the perpetrators as i would for a dog trained to kill other dogs in dog fights.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Dogs are Trained to kill. Pedophiles are exercising the free will that God gave them and are using their perversion KNOWINGLY. Dogs don't have the reasoning power to MAKE A CHOICE as to fight and kill or not like pedophiles do.

Drummergirl, I think the little girl found on a rock is the one I spoke of, Samantha. They played the tape of the man who found her, making a call to 911 on TV. He was FREAKING OUT and crying as he TRIED described what he had seen! Her perpetrator had posed her on that rock for all passers by to see!

I don't honestly know how her mother has kept her sanity!! I wouldn't have!

SeptemberMorn - because of a variety of factors most of which I do not even presume to fathom, but including horrific childhoods, mental illnesses, substance abuse, deprivation, organic brain injury, and simply different brain wiring, the people who do such terrible acts are decidedly (thankfully) different from the rest of us. While I do think that almost every single person, given the right circumstances and stressors is capable of murder, I do not believe that the people who commit these vile acts are truly able to exercise the reasoning power that you want to give them credit for. Do not mistake me - I do not want these people ever walking the streets again but I do not want to be a part of their state sanctioned death either- I do have reasoning power and every ounce of my being tells me that it is simply morally wrong to endorse killing anyone. Don't forget the part, Hebrews 10:30, that says "Vengeance is mine, saith the Lord." Vengeance in another form is righteous anger.

I would like to kindly come into this delicate conversation and remind members to keep the discussion of religion as limited. If a branch grows off the conversation in that direction, please feel free to create a new thread in the Sanctuary for Spiritual Support.

Also, this is an extremely delicate topic in that we're discussing something the touches deep inside many of us for various reasons...sparking potentially huge emotion and opinion.

Let's please remember that others might not share exactly what we're feeling and thinking, but might feel just as strongly in what they do.

I hit the "quick reply button" and this post is not meant to focus on one member.

Respectfully,

KD

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Don't forget the part, Hebrews 10:30, that says "Vengeance is mine, saith the Lord." Vengeance in another form is righteous anger.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

If you go back and read more of my posts in this thread, you'll see that I haven't forgotten it.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
SeptemberMorn said:
So there's no room in your life for righteous anger?... I see absolutely nothing wrong with wanting punishment for these most vile of theives.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Righteous anger is one thing. WANTING punishment is one thing. They are feelings, and healthy ones in many respects, I think. Carrying them out is another thing. IMO. Necessary separation of offenders from others is different from punishment.

Some of us, I dare to say, have experienced torture in various forms from members of our own families. One of mine appeared to me to want to kill me. Her hatred, at least as it appeared to my child's mind, was so great that even now I feel sometimes as though maybe she was right, and that I should die. Others' condemnations of me have had the same effect. Maybe they are right. If I accepted their apparent judgements of me I would be dead.

Sometimes I feel so angry at those people I think I could kill them. Sometimes I wish I had. After I let myself feel my anger, I cool, and grow in understanding of even those who have made me feel so demeaned.

I have seen what people (including me) can do under pressure. As the saying is, there but for the grace of God go I.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
pachyderm said:
Righteous anger is one thing. WANTING punishment is one thing. They are feelings, and healthy ones in many respects, I think. Carrying them out is another thing. IMO.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

You're so right! As far as my own perpetrators, I'm waiting on God to carry out His punishment.

As for present pedophiles and child murderers, we need stricter laws passed AND enforced...and many a judge educated on what these monsters leave in their wake.

As controversial a figure as Bill O'Reilly is, I'm behind him all the way in exposing the states and the judges that allow these freaks to go free!

I agree with you.... there are many examples of Jesus' venting his anger but not once did he pick up a sword to strick someone physically. Yes he threw some tables around and had some royal hissy fits but he didn't condon rage that leads to torture. Jesus came to show the world a different way.

Punishment is a consequence of violating the laws of God and the people of the land. And again would Jesus have supported vengful and torturous acts? If He had we would not have been redeemed by his walk of purity and unconditional love.

I think to feel righteous anger and to want an evil perpetrator to pay for his/her crimes and to image them being put through some or more of what he/she put others through is a natural response to experiencing, witnessing or hearing of such evil acts. Its not that I don't understand or can't relate to such emotions. Its that Jesus, my guide and my teacher modelled a different response.

Walking with Jesus is often contrary to the emotions that stir inside me. There are times with my illness that I truly want to die. When suicide seems to be the only solution to ending my pain and suffering. Only Jesus keeps me alive during those times. How many other ways does Jesus save me.... can we count them in a lifetime?

Jesus loved his followers, the thief and the rapist equally. He forgave the sinners. That didn't mean he absolved them of punishment. It just meant that He didn't abandon them from His Father's Love. That teaches me that I must still find His Love in me to minister to those who have violated the laws no matter how hanous the crime. I can support punishments that restrain and restrict a person from further acts of evil. I must also pray for the renewal of that person's spirit and the salvation of their soul.

<font color="#000088">If I have the knowledge that the pedophile that took my childhood away from me, and tortured me severely, is still out there. He is probably,and most likely taking away other childrens childhoods away to as we speak. And because the State has a Statute of Limitations for what he did to me at this point in time. I can't stop him yet! I have to wait until they drop the Statute, or until I can return to California where they have no Statute of Limitations before I can press charges.
In his confession, that I have, it states things that he did to me while we lived in California, which means I can use it against him in that State now! And if he were to enter the State of California, there would be a Warrant for his arrest waiting for him. As a long haul Trucker,he often makes trips to California! I am just waiting until whichever comes first, I make it home to California to press the charges, or they drop the Statute here, so I can stop him! Now how could I live with myself if I just forgave him, and let it go? While he's still out there doing it to other kids! When I have what I need to stop him, it will just take a little more time! I wish I could do it now! But the State won't allow it,because of the stupid Statute of Limitations!Their supposed to be dropping it soon, completely! Then he's mine!I have to stop him!
Not only for revenge, but to protect the other children,and hitch hikers out there! But yeah, revenge to!
I don't think I'll ever be able to get a good nights sleep, until he is stopped!
He's out there driving around the Western States, along the coast in his Big Rig, picking up who knows who? And doing who knows what to them? How safe would you feel, if he knew your address? He know's mine!
That should be understandable, considering the circumstances! </font>

I could not agree with you more. The system must be strengthened in order for justice to work. The judges need to be held to account.

Forgiveness does not mean letting someone go unpunished. Your perp absolutely should have to pay for his crimes and the sooner the better. Good luck to you are you battle to bring him to the courts to face his crimes.

I wish you strength and for helpers to come your way to make it happen quickly. May you be successful that you might save other innocent children from his harm.

<font color="#000088">That's why my screen name is Justice! Because that is what I have been seeking for over 20 years, and waiting for, fighting for, and I'm almost there. I'm so close to finally getting it! ***Justice***
He knows it to, that's why I've gotten subtle threats from him, and my Mom. Attempted break-ins to my apartment to get my laptop, or find that confession statement I have of his!
It's been Hell, but when I get justice,it will be worth it all in the end!
Once I get him, you'll all know! </font>

Justice, if there's anything I can do to help in order for you to get ****JUSTICE!!**** just let me know!

Hi KD:
I think we all have gotten off the beaten track here with this posting. I was only conveying my personal opinion
from experience. I'm sorry to have started this God stuff. I do not usually do that. I do not like to talk Religion, as to some people it's a very private matter. I'm one of them!!!
However: as a survivor of this horrid act myself, I find it deplorable that some people can actually FORGIVE these slugs in life. I do not HAVE to forgive.....I wasn't his daughter and he had NO RIGHT to touch me at all. I slept very little after that at night, and I have him to THANK for it!!!
Anyway, you are right, it's a very touchy subject and for some of us it "triggers" certain memories that we are trying
to forget. But, does anyone ever FORGET??????

I think that you are correct.. no one does ever "forget"...

BUT we do have our own personal opinions - that includes.. having the "right" to feel as we want and to express that here at PC..

that includes.. forgiveness.. non-forgivenness, whether we feel that our "perp" should/shouldn't be punished, how they should be punished..

Absolutely,,, no one has a right to tell me "how to feel" towards my pedophile.. no one...

my heart... my faith... my beliefs.. my soul.. my spirit..
they belong to me...

And I will continue to express how I feel at PC... because it helps me...

May everyone.. here... be granted the gift of peace...

That is the best... that I can hope, pray, and wish for everyone.

KD, Hon... I'm sorry about all the God talk. In my opinion, it's not "religion." It just goes to show how inherent God is in the recovery of those of us who have been sexually abused. Ultimately, He... well... He's the Ultimate Judge/Healer/Counselor.

So far, IMHO, the thread is cool. Emotions have run high but we've managed to keep it under the "argumentative" line; we've respected each other's feelings. But if you really think, in your Administrator's Heart that there is too much talk of God, PLEASE! PLEASE! Make sure the whole thread gets moved to the Sanctuary. In my PPOV, there is some healing going on here. Please, let's not interfere with it, ok?

I won't apologize for mentioning God and how I feel within this thread. I also won't confine my faith to the Spirituality Forum. I was concerned when that forum began that the non-believers would insist that happen, and it won't as long as I'm a member here.

God is, and has been, a very force within my life. Many of you tell me how my posts have helped you in the past, and how great I said something at this point in time or another. You can't really think I think all that up by myself do you? The really good stuff comes from God, for me, not from me. It always has been that way, long before anyone "knew" I was such a strong Christian.

I mentioned God with reference to children and the atrocities some of them (you) had to bear.. but more directly about those children, while leaving this life, proclaimed seeing angels around them, and warm love. Without this hope (that others have also spoken of) I can't handle stories like this. I get through other's posting of horrible things because of that hope within me... that my God gives me. I have to hope that Jessica saw her angels.

What I believe and express in my posts doesn't infringe upon what you believe and what you express (and vice versa.)
And life requires God, in my perspective. If I am prevented from including God, then I will be prevented from posting altogether.

Sky

(((((((((( everyone )))))))))))

Yes, September, I think it's very cool to have watched today. There have been MANY varying opinions attached to VERY strong emotion, and they've been stated well and without personal attack of the opposing.

Y'all, there's no reason for sorry or feel the need to apologize (or not in some cases).

If you'll read my post, I just placed a gentle reminder in a thread where so many can feel so much...a reminder in regards to the limited discussion.

The guideline says to limit religious discussion, not that it's prohibited. To this point I'd say that we're bordering that guideline.

When a conversation can turn to mostly a "religious" discussion (i.e. forgiveness according to the Bible), then it would be appropriate to take that conversation to a new thread in the Sanctuary.

That said, I see no problem with the mention of personal belief as it pertains to the discussion so long as the discussion doesn't do a 180 and stay there, ya know? In that case, I don't see it as being limited and a new thread would be appropriate.

Again, it was just a gentle reminder in a thread where hearts, souls and minds are touched in lots of ways.

Love,

KD

I wouldn't mind if a new thread was started in the Sanctuary about God's forgiveness! I'm not sure where I stand with mine, actually. I'm not sure where between Indifference and Forgiveness I stand. But that's another story, another thread.

My intent, when I originally posted, was to purge whatever "bad" there is still in my memory and possibly help someone else to do the same thing. It was never my intention to start a religious or political debate.

Just like "Justice," all of us who have been so horribly violated are still looking for justice! Once that's achieved, then maybe we can move on to forgiveness, either religious or otherwise.

((((((((((((((((((((( Sept )))))))))))))))))))))

Your intent showed, hon and I'm sorry for the pain, anger and everything else that is there.

I, personally, gave up on legal justice (even though old t contacted the authorities). For me, I had to. I'm NOT suggesting that for anyone else, just stating my personal journey... For me, in my case, justice has many forms. I see him, his life now, and know in my heart that a kind of justice has been "served".

Love & respect,

KD