[RedBarchetta]

Unbelievable - It MIGHT not have been that bad of an idea since I am having medication problems (can't seem to find a mood stabilizer that works without causing unwanted effects, and side-effects is the number one reason for me not complying with medication, followed closely by if you have to watch to close if I take it, in that case, keep it, example of how close is too close....Well, good case in point; you want a drug test in general, fine - if you want a monitored one, you went too far, no one gets that, and I have on a few occasions told a judge in a polite way, the court is not getting one either no matter what happens if they don't, they must have figured I was extremely serious, because that issue get dropped as fast as if you grabbed the wrong end of a burning stick) -anyway, back to the point..
Everything looked like it was o.k. - but quickly turned from Help me, to what do I have to do to get you to leave me alone when that doctor decided me clothing could not sty with me in the ER - that is a jester of dis-trust, and as soon as I seen that (and it's the same deal with the monitored drug tests), I really don't care what you have to offer, because now I DO NOT trust you at at all. So instead of allowing anymore after that trust was broken (and the doctor broke it with that jester), all I care abo0ut is getting away from that situation, and then I will down-play, even blatenly lie - just if you are not going to trust me, I can not trust you at all, EVEN IF they do things like that due to the law, I don't care, do it, and I want nothing to do with you, or anything you have to offer. Last time anything came close, it was a search of me stuff that prompted me to say whatever regardless of actual truth, so they would cut the s*!t.
I really don't know, except keep it up, I WILL just forget treating this at all....
When I am asking for help, you act any different than you would if it were a physical issue (and there is no way any of that happens for that) you are history one way or another.
And that's another thing, any admitting for that I also intend to insist woks like a medical place to - meaning no sharing a phone with the whole ward - because medically, I could have my own, and at least the medical hospital I would use, you can use your own cell phone, so that MOST be o.k. - T.V. - again medically, I would have my own so....Visitors, again just like medical during the day, but any or everyday. And even medical I have some gripes with, just not as bad, those gripes are stuff like - N reason to stay there just for an IV, just start the tube, it's screw in fittings on the bags, and it's my house, I' put a nail in any wall I want, and regardless of being sick, I am still read a clock, I would rather handle my own regular medications, thank you, and I know more about how I feel than you do - if I say I can walk, trust me I can - totally shocked a few nurses with that one. Right after waking up from anastesia, they thought no way, but they those few times said fine, go try it, see how far you get - and I actually was walking fine, reflexes might have been slowed, but no more so than having a few drinks.

[Travelinglady]

If I understand what you're saying, I, too, get frustrated at how patients are treated on mental wards. I can understand some things, but it would be nice if I could have stuff more like in a regular ward. But....

[RedBarchetta]

Well, either way - bottom line - show ANYTHING at all the suggests they are assuming anything (example, No clothing, nothing sharp deliberately, exc.) then I ABSOLUTELY DO NOT trust you - therefore at that point, I WILL lie to your face, so it won't happen. Basic idea, if you are going to act like there is anything you are4 not trusting me about, I do not want anything at all to do with you.. That's why once they started with get rid of all that, I started BSing so it would definitely be over (I made absolutely sure of that) that's just the way it goes...
You MUST act as though it's no different at all than if I had a bad accident (and yes I do mean everything), otherwise, no matter what I am fine, even if I am thinking walk right out the door, and in to on coming traffic deliberately, there is absolutely nothing wrong while I am there, if you are going to pull any of that....And that's twice within 1 year so far - even THINK about it a third time, and that hospital will permanently not exist as far as I am concerned (and I already canceled three medical hospitals in the area because of the way they do things - the one I actually use, happens to be the farthest away from me, without leaving the county).
And this case, it's the guester, not the act that is the problem - you essentially suggested I might attempt to hurt myself while right in the ER - well, that's enough for me to not give a s*$t what you have to say after that point - unless you can point to something that would back it up - when I am just talking calmly, and had not done anything other than calmly explain what the problem is - and you act like that - don't care about laws hospital rules or anything - do that and you can kiss my *****, and expect me to not be willing to tell you much outside of what you want to hear to say go home.
And even if the ER gave me no problem, but once there, you start with searching - buzz - GET A WARRANT OR LEAVE MY STUFF ALONE PERIOD - or I WILL see you in court (or rather a lawyer will on my behalf - won't go in to a court house due to the metal detector - it is a search, don't search without a warrant in any situation end of story.

[noneedtoknow]

RedBarchetta
Food for thought
You can do whatever the .... you want to-it's your life
When I accept a new patient in the psych ward-don't know you, how stable you are, your psych history, your violence history etc-I initially might just have what brought you in.
I have experienced being spit at, hit at, kicked, threats of violence etc and have on more than one occassion, pulled long-*** knives/weapons out of clothes, belonging bags, etc. My co-workers have been physically hurt by people comming into the psych part or the regular part of the ER. Nurses and other staff have been killed by pissed off/unstable people.
There have been many attempts that people have made to commit suicide in the ER or Psych unit. A few were pretty scary.

My job is to keep you safe, the unit safe and myself safe. SO If I have to take away your clothes and things and dole them out to you as needed, well guess what-it might happen. Hard, ya, I get it....but we are talking about something different than if you came in from an motor vehicle accident. When I have trauma victims, I don't have to worry about if they are gonna try and take me out. Hasn't been my experience yet. Everyday I walk onto the psych unit, the potential for violence is very real. So have an attitude. I can deal with that too. Try looking on this side of the fence. You might see things a little differently....so, there it is....for your edification

[RedBarchetta]

I still insist if you don't have any indication at all first, assume it's fine - but either way - it's that kind of thing that has kept me from even looking in to things until recently - they should know me there - and I will just not do anything about anything if that is what I can expect..l. Beside the fewer records the better.
I guess I can see your point - but fact is, I still would rather let things go, than put up with that - and that's why I did until PCP stared bugging me over it, because they didn't want to bother with anxiety medication any more - if I knew then it would lead to that, I probably would have opted to just do without it and whatever happens, happens...But I can not feel like I am being watched too close, or like you are assuming anything without any proof - that is what makes me not want to bother.

[Evil Schnoodle]

Originally Posted by RedBarchetta

I still insist if you don't have any indication at all first, assume it's fine - but either way - it's that kind of thing that has kept me from even looking in to things until recently - they should know me there - and I will just not do anything about anything if that is what I can expect..l. Beside the fewer records the better.
I guess I can see your point - but fact is, I still would rather let things go, than put up with that - and that's why I did until PCP stared bugging me over it, because they didn't want to bother with anxiety medication any more - if I knew then it would lead to that, I probably would have opted to just do without it and whatever happens, happens...But I can not feel like I am being watched too close, or like you are assuming anything without any proof - that is what makes me not want to bother.

I can understand both points of view, as I worked on inpatient mental health units and in Psychiatric ERs for 7 years and have been a patient in a psychiatric unit twice. Safety in psychiatric settings is the primary need, for both patients and staff. I would not want to be a patient on a unit if I didn't trust that I was safe. Rules about weapons, razor blades, shoe strings etc. exist to help people stay safe from themselves (when they are not able to do it at the moment), allow other patients the opportunity of a healing environment, and decrease the chances that staff or visitors will be injured, killed, or end up with PTSD.

On the other hand, being locked up, having your clothing removed, being taken away from some possible coping tools (cigarettes, freedom to listen to music when you want...), treated like you are not being trusted, and getting into power struggles with staff....all these things can re-traumatize patients. Over 90% of inpatients have histories of significant traumas...that we can very easily trigger by the same policies we use to keep a safe environment.

An answer is practicing in a trauma-informed care model. Staff use "universal precautions" by treating everyone as if they have been traumatized (sexual assualt, poverty, substance use, prostitution, violence, etc.). Safety is set for ALL involved with information about why safety is needed. Staff treat patients as human being first and patient's second. Patients are involved in their treatment planning and can be givien a menu of options. And when someone is dangerous to self or others, safety is managed in the least restrictive manner possible...with open discussions afterward when possible - acknowledging the difficulty of the situation and how staff and the patient can understand each other and learn to avoid the problem in the future. This is not realistic 100% of the time, but it is an ideal to shoot for. We can keep a safe environment, while restricting people's access to harmful things, and also promote healing by how staff interact with patients and each other...and try to create an environment of mutual respect even with safety being prioritized.

[venusss]

Originally Posted by noneedtoknow

RedBarchetta
Food for thought
You can do whatever the .... you want to-it's your life
When I accept a new patient in the psych ward-don't know you, how stable you are, your psych history, your violence history etc-I initially might just have what brought you in.
I have experienced being spit at, hit at, kicked, threats of violence etc and have on more than one occassion, pulled long-*** knives/weapons out of clothes, belonging bags, etc. My co-workers have been physically hurt by people comming into the psych part or the regular part of the ER. Nurses and other staff have been killed by pissed off/unstable people.
There have been many attempts that people have made to commit suicide in the ER or Psych unit. A few were pretty scary.

My job is to keep you safe, the unit safe and myself safe. SO If I have to take away your clothes and things and dole them out to you as needed, well guess what-it might happen. Hard, ya, I get it....but we are talking about something different than if you came in from an motor vehicle accident. When I have trauma victims, I don't have to worry about if they are gonna try and take me out. Hasn't been my experience yet. Everyday I walk onto the psych unit, the potential for violence is very real. So have an attitude. I can deal with that too. Try looking on this side of the fence. You might see things a little differently....so, there it is....for your edification

many people try agressively AFTER they are humiliated this way in psychwards... because it FREAKS THEM OUT and they act out of fear.

Actually, from what I've witnessed, the patients that get violent pretty much walked in the door delusional or psychotic or under the influence of some substance that is altering their reality in some way. They lash out generally without any provocation at all simply because they are not functioning at all in reality and their perceptions are not at all rational. They certainly may be "freaked out", but from what I've witnessed (and I unfortunately have put in quite a bit of time on psych units over the years), they are freaked out about something that isn't really there, isn't really happening, isn't really reality (which is why they have been admitted in the first place.)

Hospitals do have to take standard precautions because they don't know what kinds of symptoms patients will display, and obviously the most extreme behaviors have a tendency to occur in the early days of admission before treatment has been put in place.

Do I need all of those safeguards for me personally? Probably not all of them as I've never personally gotten violent towards other people although I can be a danger to myself, but if I have an item that another patient gets hold of and is able to use in some way to harm himself, a staff member, or another patient, the hospital has failed in the duty to keep everyone there safe. Most units aren't terribly large and don't have the facilities for separating patients into different wards for different levels of security/precautions, etc., so they have no option but to apply those precautions across the board.

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by 1914sierra

They certainly may be "freaked out", but from what I've witnessed (and I unfortunately have put in quite a bit of time on psych units over the years), they are freaked out about something that isn't really there, isn't really happening, isn't really reality ...

Personally, I would add NOW to these statements. Something that isn't there NOW, but was at one time, or was perceived to be there at one time when the person was much younger and could not understand what was happening. But in my experience staff did not give much credence to the suggestion that people were reacting to something REAL, but just not actually present now.

[RedBarchetta]

Either way - all that is why, I will always go somewhere I know people that work there - now I never saw that particular doctor before(I guess he's new) but all the nurses that were there knew me on a first name bases - I would think one of them would speak up - and if they did and he ignored it, well, that's even worst - if they said nothing, then the annoyance should be split between the two.
All I know is the basic point was the mood stabilizers just are not getting correct - my phych keeps saying wait till the next appointment (and when noticed that's usually 3 weeks to a month) - mean time it's driving myself and my wife nuts - we just either want something done already, or at least know everything has been tried. But it's not about anything really dangerous anyway - sure it could look it at the time (extreme anger, exc. but all it ever amounts to is a lot of yelling, ABSOLUTELY no VIOLENCE at any time.
Well, I guess either way, it helped, just not in a "conventional" way. I did call my doc the next morning (had called a few days before, and got put off AGAIN) - but when they heard ER, and while not actually, damn close to being admitted - then "Can you come in today?" (man is that REALLY what it takes to get people to move!??!?
And now something else to try, but one of the side-effects I was reading could happen dose scare the h$!l out of me - because I have historically been extra sensitive to a lot of drugs (others it takes so much it scares people) - and IF this one happens, THEN even I would say that MIGHT be warranted - but you still have to look at how bad.. that is "Suicidal thoughts or actions". But if that dose end up happening - well I just hope I don't end up basically stuck with 'Oh no - not you again!"......And even there, a thought in itself is not dangerous in itself, it's an action that is dangerous......

[Evil Schnoodle]

Originally Posted by RedBarchetta

Either way - all that is why, I will always go somewhere I know people that work there - now I never saw that particular doctor before(I guess he's new) but all the nurses that were there knew me on a first name bases - I would think one of them would speak up - and if they did and he ignored it, well, that's even worst - if they said nothing, then the annoyance should be split between the two.
All I know is the basic point was the mood stabilizers just are not getting correct - my phych keeps saying wait till the next appointment (and when noticed that's usually 3 weeks to a month) - mean time it's driving myself and my wife nuts - we just either want something done already, or at least know everything has been tried. But it's not about anything really dangerous anyway - sure it could look it at the time (extreme anger, exc. but all it ever amounts to is a lot of yelling, ABSOLUTELY no VIOLENCE at any time.
Well, I guess either way, it helped, just not in a "conventional" way. I did call my doc the next morning (had called a few days before, and got put off AGAIN) - but when they heard ER, and while not actually, damn close to being admitted - then "Can you come in today?" (man is that REALLY what it takes to get people to move!??!?
And now something else to try, but one of the side-effects I was reading could happen dose scare the h$!l out of me - because I have historically been extra sensitive to a lot of drugs (others it takes so much it scares people) - and IF this one happens, THEN even I would say that MIGHT be warranted - but you still have to look at how bad.. that is "Suicidal thoughts or actions". But if that dose end up happening - well I just hope I don't end up basically stuck with 'Oh no - not you again!"......And even there, a thought in itself is not dangerous in itself, it's an action that is dangerous......

I hope you find something that work for you..and helps keep you out of a crisis. It sounds like you are having a really painful time....

[RedBarchetta]

One other thing that makes no sense at all even if that were needed...
Don't you think a blanket (that they gave me) would make a much better noose than a belt, pants, or a shirt? - And what about the wrist brace I need for corporal tunnel, it has a nice shark metal strip in it, and the cloth can easily be ripped with your hand - also hunting ear protection I use in ANY noisy place, because other wise I can not take the noise, it in itself could (and has) caused a hospital stay (one ear mostly dose not work, but it dose get some tones, those are amplified to the point it's too loud to stand) - again has metal in it, and they are heavy. (Those stayed) - Also My wallet - needed that to give insurance info (they get that after you are in a bed in that place) - that stayed to, just the cards they needed are sharp - AND, I didn't recall it being there at the time, but once home, I found a razor blade in the wallet so....
Not to mention there own needle disposal box - you don't think if I really wanted to I could get inside that......
Point is if you are determined enough, there is always a way no matter what - but logic says (to me any way) - you will never get away with it in a hospital because the second you try, someone WILL be on it - therefore - it's not going to work unless the point is to just get some attention.

[noneedtoknow]

Originally Posted by Evil Schnoodle

I can understand both points of view, as I worked on inpatient mental health units and in Psychiatric ERs for 7 years and have been a patient in a psychiatric unit twice. Safety in psychiatric settings is the primary need, for both patients and staff. I would not want to be a patient on a unit if I didn't trust that I was safe. Rules about weapons, razor blades, shoe strings etc. exist to help people stay safe from themselves (when they are not able to do it at the moment), allow other patients the opportunity of a healing environment, and decrease the chances that staff or visitors will be injured, killed, or end up with PTSD.

On the other hand, being locked up, having your clothing removed, being taken away from some possible coping tools (cigarettes, freedom to listen to music when you want...), treated like you are not being trusted, and getting into power struggles with staff....all these things can re-traumatize patients. Over 90% of inpatients have histories of significant traumas...that we can very easily trigger by the same policies we use to keep a safe environment.

An answer is practicing in a trauma-informed care model. Staff use "universal precautions" by treating everyone as if they have been traumatized (sexual assualt, poverty, substance use, prostitution, violence, etc.). Safety is set for ALL involved with information about why safety is needed. Staff treat patients as human being first and patient's second. Patients are involved in their treatment planning and can be givien a menu of options. And when someone is dangerous to self or others, safety is managed in the least restrictive manner possible...with open discussions afterward when possible - acknowledging the difficulty of the situation and how staff and the patient can understand each other and learn to avoid the problem in the future. This is not realistic 100% of the time, but it is an ideal to shoot for. We can keep a safe environment, while restricting people's access to harmful things, and also promote healing by how staff interact with patients and each other...and try to create an environment of mutual respect even with safety being prioritized.

Absolutely agree about the culture of the unit and how people are treated-re RESPECT. I am grateful to say where I work we definitely try to keep this in the forefront when working with our clients. It goes past trauma-informed care. It's about basic human dignity and rights. I'm glad to hear from a fellow worker in the field striving to give the best care possible. Thank you for your work and all you do!!!

[Sunflower123]

I think there are protocals for a reason and if you decide to lie to them because you disagree you are not hurting them. You are shooting yourself in the foot. You are winning the battle but losing the war. What if every patient came in and demanded to be treated a different way? It would be chaos and would become ineffective. Having said that, I hope you can find a safe place to go when needed where you agree with the protocals and are treated respectfully. Sending big hugs.

When I am a patient I am trusting and relying upon my caregivers in the facility to keep me safe. if that means searching or asking for sharps, etc then so be it. That is what their job is to do. I have a question; why is compliance so bloody difficult? That only suggests the staff have all the more reason to question you. Do yourself a favour and give these people the respect that they deserve.

[sabby]

Because of the age of this thread it will now be closed. If any of you wish to continue the discussion in a current thread, please feel free to make a new one.

Thanks!