Animal cruelty/eating meat

Soy milk is really good! I love it. There are animal products in so many things, you're right. But there are vegan options and there is so much information out there if you look in the right place. If you have a facebook and decide you want to try it, New Vegan Support is a group that has a lot of information.

Hii, thanks so much for the reccomendation, I'll definitely look into what's out there!! I've tried soy milk, it is good - I'm interested what substitutes there are for eggs as they're in so much!! I'll have to do some research. Thanks for your response and to everyone else's

I believe all living things have a spirit...including fruits, vegetables, mould, parasites etc...even my poor old magnolia tree that became so ill that I had to have her put down...just because living things don't cry out in pain doesn't mean they don't feel, or value their life. However...this said. I am a meat eater, fruit & vegetable eater, Grain Fungus and Arthropod eater... I treat food as medicine & fuel. Whatever my body needs it gets.

Tofu is actually a great substitute for eggs! I make "tofu scramble" in a skillet on medium-high for about 6 minutes. It's just tofu. I crumble it up in the skillet or you can take a potato masher and "scramble it" then cook for around 6 minutes and stir it around like you would eggs. Then I add vegan cheese. You can add other stuff, I'm just a really simple/picky eater. I'm sure you can find a better explanation/recipes online. Also nutritional yeast is a vegan option that you can add that is supposed to give things a cheesy taste. I haven't tried it yet.

There are other substitutes for eggs but so far I have just bought the expensive packaged vegan food. Tofu is pretty cheap though. And there are some cheap vegan friendly food (in the produce section).

I do eat hunted and raised meat at times, but do think as a society we eat way too much meat. I was told by my doc that I would be healthier if I cut down on meat consumption, so I eat it 3 or 4 times a week. I don't think it is an either/or choice.

I am struggling to stop meat altogether I am not saying it is easy for everybody but my ultimate goal is not to eat meat at all...and my conscience is only happy with that option,I want to feel like I am not contributing to the death of animals for food.I stopped milk easily that is cruel to cows and I want to stop cheese,another thing I am finding hard.Overall though I eat a lot less animal foods than I used to and I am continuing to cut it out until I don't eat it at all.

It's tough to be in a position where we don't want to harm animals, but we end up eating them anyway.

Really, I would not consider it hypocritical at all. What most people worry about is the needless suffering that an animal undergoes in order to die, not the death itself. What would be hypocritical is for an individual to turn right back around and deliberately abuse an animal -- not to consume meat. When it comes to the consumption of "human babies or puppies or kittens", we simply do not eat them. Some cultures do consume cats and dogs, but most major world countries do not. It is not a matter of hypocrisy, rather, how humanity values a given creature. Some are valued as companions, whereas others are valued as food. People often say that animals fear death, but if slaughtered properly, then there should not be reason for that instinctual fear to arise. If anything, it is the process of dying which is the fearful aspect of it for most animals.

In order for an animal to survive, it must kill and eat something, be that a plant or an animal. In the objective scheme of the universe, a plant's life is not inherently worth more than an animal's. Value is delegated by conscious reasoning, which is a characteristic of humanity. Many people would not give a second thought about swatting a wasp dead, but bees are typically preserved for their value to the environment and to humanity. When it comes down to determining the moral validity of an action, people do still base it in the best interest of humanity, but they do also attempt to empathize with the animals which are slaughtered.

In the long term, an animal is typically not going to be aware of its impending death, so the pain and fear which originate from the process are derived from the immediate slaughter. Contrarily, human beings understand that life is finite, so comprehending that a deadline is near is much more daunting. There is no "correct" answer to this, as it is simply subjective in what the individual and a society assign value unto. However, animals will continue to die regardless of whether or not humanity intervenes, and these deaths are much more savage in the natural world. If one makes a decision in regards to this, it should be of their own values. No matter if they consume meat or not, one should not feel inherently guilty.

Cats are more carnivorous than dogs are.

Eventually, someone will find an alternative and practically everyone will follow.

Until then, people will continue to eat whatever they are addicted to, or whatever they can afford, or whatever makes their body look how they want it to...

Eventually someone will invent something as inexpensive, as nutritionally adequate, as delicious as meat. Then practically no one will kill animals for food anymore. And we will finally be able to see, with much less bias, how horrible this was.

Next up, might be making our pets, cat and dogs, non-carnivores too! They are already starting to introduce cat and dog foods that are not meat based. Why do people like carnivores so much anyway? Why not adopt a non-carnivore as a pet?

There are substances which can exhibit addictive behaviors in modern diets, but meat alone is not inherently "addictive". It simply happens that it is a natural element of the human diet, meaning that the incentive to consume it is extraordinarily high. A vegetarian or vegan diet is simply not optimal for a great deal of people for numerous reasons. These diets are often more expensive, more time consuming, and cater to individuals with less picky diets. If an alternative with the same texture, taste, price, and nutrition appeared in the future, then it is not necessarily true that individuals of the future will be disgusted. In the past, many surgical procedures were conducted without the use of antiseptics, which was certainly unsafe, but given the knowledge that they were unfamiliar with many bacterial microorganisms (and certainly had no treatment against them), it is honestly not that absurd. Yes, there are many modern improvements to date, but no rational person of modern date would openly condemn others for what was perhaps necessary at the time.

As I mentioned in my previous comment, most animals do not possess a conscious comprehension of death. To them, fear is the process of dying or the presence of pain. If the animal is slaughtered as swiftly and painlessly as possible, it is honestly not that "horrible". Additionally, it is simply untrue that "practically no one will kill animals for food anymore". Sure, in this hypothetical scenario humans might not kill for food, but billions of other animals across the globe will still hunt other animals and provide them quite brutal deaths. That suffering will simply not disappear until life itself vanishes from the Earth, and in comparison, the deaths that many humans provide are really quite humane. I think people need to understand that humans are not raising animals simply for the sake of slaughtering them and nothing else. Their carcasses do serve a legitimate service in providing numerous materials, ranging from meat, leather, hair, etc. Even violins contain products salvages from animals. Meat is not the sole purpose of hunting animals, considering how valuable their entire bodies are for various materials.

As for cats and dogs, a non-meat diet is simply abusive, especially for cats which are outright carnivorous. Certain animals can technically survive on meatless diets, but they risk blindness, malnutrition, and many other health complications when denied it. Furthermore, pet food is often salvaged from scraps of animals in which humans use for meat and materials. If anything, it is simply preventing waste. If you prefer a herbivorous pet, then feel free to adopt one. However, many people choose to adopt cats and dogs, due to their domestication, personalities, and their prevalence in local shelters. They have proven to be long-time companions of humanity for their compatibility and ease of domestication.

Um, eating meat for me is a CHOICE and not a so called "addiction".

Another thing, all those meat alternatives are full of chemicals and crap that, while meant to imitate the flavor and texture of meat, are in actuality, pretty damn awful for your body. It's much healthier to consume actual meat than meat alternatives.

Also, I am wholeheartedly in agreement with Krow on this that forcing a cat, who is an obligate carnivore (meaning that they must consume meat as their digestive system is only designed for that sort of diet) to live off of plant matter is not only inhumane, but downright intentionally cruel. If you don't want a pet who eats meat, get a rabbit or hamster for crying out loud.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm off to have a nice ham sandwich.

That is completely wrong. You need to do some serious research.

Really? Most soy based meat alternatives are super high in sodium, cholesterol and carbohydrates due to the fillers used to make them palletable. They are also lower in protein and fats which the body requires to function normally. Alot of the popular brands also use GMO soy based products. These meat replacers are in essence, over processed garbage.

Real meat have the fats and proteins needed for a healthy diet and are low in carbs and cholesterol. Chicken breasts are a nice lean meat, that when seasoned just right, is much healthier than a boca burger of equal proportion.

"A vegetarian or vegan diet is simply not optimal for a great deal of people for numerous reasons. These diets are often more expensive, more time consuming, and cater to individuals with less picky diets."

This is actually untrue.
There are plenty of meals you can make with simple ingredients. Beans, pasta, vegetables, fruits, etc. It CAN be expensive, but doesn't have to be.

BTW, I am a a picky eater. I love food and can eat anywhere. If a restaurant doesn't have vegetarian option, I just eat a salad.

In the end, it is just a personal choice.

And meat alternatives are great. They make them from grains and tofu and tempeh and beans.

Quite frankly, I came in quite hot-headed myself, but I hope this thread stays somewhat respectful.

I'm far from an expert, but I've heard from several sources that vitamin supplements are very much recommended if you eat vegan. So, stay safe, everyone.

And also to reiterate, whatever you eat don't feel bad about it. That doesn't help anyone.

Cholesterol only comes from animals, Artchic. There is none in plant foods.

Processed foods are unhealthy, vegan or not.

There are PLENTY of vegan options besides "meat alternatives" and I pretty much never eat meat alternatives.

I don't need meat alternatives and I get my protein and fats in other foods which are healthier than meat. I get plenty of nutrients/protein. I use Myfitnesspal daily and this lifestyle works for me.

I agree to disagree with you. This is my lifestyle, and that's yours. That's fine with me.

The key to life is moderation, I believe this to be true, I am not a big meat eater not because
of anything but the fact that I don't always like it but I love chicken which I eat regularly.
I eat a lot of fruit and veggies but I still eat meat now and then.
I will eat fish and seafood until I die.
I believe we should all eat in the way that makes us feel good and healthy, it's not one size
fits all. Have no shame and do what works best for you.

er, uh, i believe cats are the carnivores and dogs the omnivores, but no mind...
many red meats and fish can be eaten raw, as our ancestors proved. i, myself, grew up eating raw venison and beef. a lot of people drink raw eggs. it's good to espouse your opinion, if it's clearly labelled as such, and not produced as a fact.

and, oh yah, have we forgotten that there is a whole continent with a billion people (hyperbole) who are and have been vegans for millennia? (India/Pakistan). Knowledge is Power.

Animal cruelty is awful. Inflicting suffering on dogs for instance is no different to inflicting suffering on an infant/toddler. A dogs mind works in the moment, they don't (it seems) have a concept of time in a future they envision. As like human baby's up till the age of about 4-6, then the child starts to gain that knowledge of concepts of passing time, and how things change and don't stay the same.
When inflicting suffering on either dogs or a human child its forever in their minds. They see the suffering as their life existing, their pain is their life forever, cause they don't know that it will stop. So most importantly to me the infliction of suffering on dogs for example is a curse on humanity. Looking at how humans treat each other is a clue as to how far we have to go before we realize what we are doing. Using animals to test make up/perfume in the eyes etc is awful.
I like to say this to people when I am in a chat about animal welfare......:"understanding how a dogs mind works, never mind the rest of the animal kingdom. If you, as a person believes in "Karma?" Just one mind of a dog suffering in the millions of minds suffering at the hands of humans is enough to put "All Of Humanity" in hell for eternity'.
I do say myself "I don't believe in Karma but, if I did my guess would be just one dogs life suffering in its own eternity (never changing) is about equal to our concepts of eternity.
I do eat meat, and the meat industry is also full of horrors. If we use our imaginations the concept of being farmed with genetic enhancing drugs to enhance lager yields when harvested is a horror story. Animals harvested for the meat industry know whats coming when they go in to slaughter. They are not stupid emotionally, they smell and feel panic from the process of slaughter ahead.
Animals in the meat industry get the "Karma" vote too. Using my imagination putting human people in that role being slaughtered and eaten, as a human if I believed in Karma (which I don't,) my curse to the ones eating me and putting me through this horror would be 20.000 life times of our universe in hell.

My opinion of the meat industry and animal cruelty is kinda bleak.
I honestly think we'll never stop hurting other humans, until the next species of humans replace us.
I hope the next humans don't eat meat and see animal cruelty for what it is. That would be the Karmic "get out of jail card for us" if you believed in Karma (which I don't.)

I think I know what you mean.

i'd never kill a baby lamb, for example, or a chicken, yet those 2 things are essential in my diet (I couldn't live without them)

I was once told that their were chickens and pigs and cows, that were raised for the soul purpose of killing them later on for food, and that their were other animals raised to have a good life on the farm- and that did make me feel better, because I thought at least the animals raised to be killed were serving their purpose.

I'd never become a vegitarian.

my friend laura (X friend laura) is a vegitarian, and I never got my head round it. I questioned her about it so many times... why?. why not eat meat.

the only other meat I have tried is meet that the muslims eat (my mother dated a muslim boyfriend, and gave me some of the stuff without my consent)

and it doesn't taste the same.

to me at least

so I have no reason to complain I don't think.

Thank you for that shattered sanity. I (as a meat eater) agree with the idea of "sacrifice" rather than "a need" for us when slaughtering animals (Halal meat, Islamic/Muslim.) I like the idea of prayer for all animals slaughtered for food, a prayer of thanks from the humans about to eat them (or a prayer from the humans idea of the soul.)
At least even if we are wrong about our guilt though understanding suffering, and its all just part of who we are; at least we are taking no chances with our (alleged souls) or the animals (alleged) souls.

I have some observations regarding animal cruelty which I hope will be able to help you out.
1. Those animals were once wild animals which cared about themselves as much as we cared about ourselves. They were wild and could be dangerous to us
2. We've taken allot of animal land over our existence
3. The currently-domesticated animals cannot survive without our care, and there are so many of them
4. The reason most people eat meat is because it's a large chunk of calories. It's more relative to the past as it was a very instantly-available meal compared to harvest. You just had to make sure you had the skills to kill. Nowadays indeed there is a lesser need for meat due to industrialized growth of harvest. But there are habits and they can't just be broken

I haven't read all of the replies in this thread, so sorry if I'm repeating something already said.

Regarding domesticed animals not killing other animals. Beg to differ. Cats catch and kill mice, rats, birds, bugs. Dogs will catch and kill other animals. Most pets don't do this because we confine them and feed them, but they still will at times. As for chickens.... um, they will go after one another like no body's business. If one hen acts sick the others will peck her to death. They will also eat her if allowed.

Having said all this I'm going to say I am a critter lover who has a problem with factory farming. There's a pig farm down the road from me that is deplorable. I will not eat veal because of the way the calves are treated. I won't eat foie gras for the same reason. The flip side of that is that I love the taste of some meat. I think Jimmy Buffett had me in mind when he wrote "Cheeseburger in Paradise!" I'm fully willing to admit I am a hypocrite and can hate the way some animals are treated and killed while enjoying the taste of the end result. I guess it's using my dissociative ability that I can look at the slab of meat I got at the market and not connect it to the critters I see when I look out my window.

i only eat seafood, vegetables and fruits.

there are people thst eating people, dogs and cats in asia and middle east