Mental illness does not exist

I submit that truth is largely with Thomas Szasz

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Szasz

and others who have suggested that there is no such thing as "mental illness." That is, the "medicalized" idea of mental illness as it is usually presented to us. Our symptoms exist and are certainly real. But what are they caused by? "Chemical imbalances in the brain" (for which there never has been any proof -- and what causes such imbalances as may exist?) or originated by viruses carried by cats infecting young victims, as Fuller Torrey has proposed on the basis of some statistical studies?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._Fuller_Torrey

What then does cause our symptoms? The dominant "medical" model seems to suggest that there is a group of mentally ill people (us) and the rest of society is "well." We are quite separate from "them." But -- look around you. Do you read or watch the news? Do you see a distinctly "well" society around you? Do you see great numbers of the political leaders of this country (and other countries) as displaying distinct qualities of mental soundness or maturity? If you do, have you been paying attention?

Is this a society in which help is given to those who need it, or is it one in which "the rich get richer and the poor get poorer"? Are the CEOs of pharmaceutical companies that provide so many pills to "help" the mentally ill making great amounts of money compared to most other people? And the same for the leaders of very many large corporations? Do these people perhaps need all that extra money to compensate them for the lack of love and affection in their personal lives?

Do we have wars? Or do you think that wars are "natural" and only to be expected?

I am not attempting to assign "blame." That is fruitless; it feels good for a time, but in fact it perpetuates the damage. I am attempting to make explicit what is wrong with the entire system.

The great Sigmund Freud (the fact that he made mistakes does not mean that he did not have a lot of brilliant insights, in my judgement) wrote a book titled (in English translation) The Psychopathology of Everyday Life. In that book he wrote in great detail in just what ways the dominant society is, in fact, partly pathological -- or pathogenic. Can you say that you do not see any of it? Are you awake? In denial?

http://psychclassics.yorku.ca/Freud/Psycho/

My contention is that the vast majority of what we call mental illness is in origin due to the discrepancy, or enforced split, between what is said, and what is in fact, true. Families in which the truth is allowed to be spoken do not produce mentally ill children, I think. At least, they produce offspring who are more resistant to developing it as a result of the influences of the rest of society. Families in which the children are forced or induced to deny their actual feelings and thoughts, in which the need to express direct love and affection is denied, produce what we call "disturbed" offspring. Is it any wonder that they are disturbed? Something badly wrong has happened to them.

How does this fit into the "medical model" of "mental illness" as separate from and estranged from the rest of humanity itself? To tell the truth, I think that medicine should encompass the ability to describe and treat these dis-eases. But it needs to do so with accuracy, knowing what causes what and what is -- shall I say, error?

So I am saying that "mental illness" is not something distinct and apart from society as a whole. In focussing entirely on individuals who have been "diagnosed" as deviant, sight is lost of the truth. I have read a number of times that the one diagnosed as "mentally ill" in a family can be actually something of a scapegoat, or carrier, of the stigma in what is in fact a dysfunctional family. One person gets assigned the task of carrying blame for what is in fact a dis-ease of wider scope. And in this way the actual cure for the disorder is made more difficult, as the truth is almost completely obscured.

Blame is extremely common in our society. No wonder people want to avoid it and if possible shift it to someone else. Blame and truth are not the same thing. Blame causes damage. Truth seeking heals it. Hiding things causes damage. Letting in sunshine heals. Or so I say.

This applies to Psych Central just as much as to the rest of our worldwide society.


A couple (NOT an exhaustive list) of links I found to what one other person has to say about the "reality" of "mental illness." I think a search could find more that are even "respectable":

http://www.antipsychiatry.org/exist.htm

http://www.antipsychiatry.org/schizoph.htm

edited to place trigger icon

Gee what a wonderful thing to say to someone who is suicidal. Or manic. Or psychotic.

It doesn't exist.

Gee that will sure help us all feel SOO much better, won't it.

Why be on a site that deals with a myriad of 'mental health' issues if you don't believe in 'mental illness'?

so are you saying that you belive this? or are you against it?

schizophrenia isnt a disease. its having too high levels of dopamine. but if you say that, then parkinson's isnt a disese either because its just too low levels of dopamine. so would you not consider parkinson' a disease? i mean.... the word disease is in the name. but its just levels of dopamine, just like schizophrenia.

im not saying i agree or disagree. just playing devil's advocate.

i'd also like to know if you're saying you're in agreement with this or not. you don't make that clear. at the same time...if you've posted it because you agree with it...how is it supposed to help anybody here towards healing. and what are you here for if you don't believe mental illness really exists?

Not sure I'm quite up to such a discussion but...

I am one who does not like to use the term "mental illness." I, if necessary, will say mental unwellness.

However, if I were to say that mental illness doesn't exist would not mean that suffering mentally doesn't exist. It's when people hear the term "mental illness" that most (somewhat ignorant?) people assume it is a problem caused by someone's emotional reactions/imbalanced thinking or such. I do think as we continue to learn, that we will find that the mental aspect of the illness one might suffer from is just that, a mental display of a symptom or symptoms, but that the cause is hardly emotional, but physical. Whether it's hormones, or brain chemistry misfiring or another type of cause that's truly physical, doesn't take away that people still suffer from real illnesses.

I fully think that even those disorders that find CBT helps them heal show that we can re-change those brain chemicals back to a good balance for living, and not that we "happen" to be feeling bad only because we are thinking poorly. (But, in further explanation, the poor thinking causes the changes in the brain chemistry over time...)

So, let me say again, no matter what someone calls it, or doesn't, in my mind it doesn't mean the real life suffering doesn't exist.

I hope that people who respond here will actually read all of what I had to say.

I did say that I largely agree with Szasz's thesis, that "mental illness" as the construct we are usually presented with does not exist -- it does not describe well what is actually happening. In fact I think it often obscures what is happening. I did not say that our suffering does not exist.

Obviously the title is to draw attention. Attention which I think is needed.

yeah but what i'm trying to understand here is how does this help any of us towards healing. i'm stupid explain it to me please?

Yeah, I agree...how does this help us to heal??? Or is it not supposed to. It's just like hearing toxic people say it's all in our head's, all our imagination and not important...

> how does this help any of us towards healing.

Good question. I'm not sure I have the answer. It helps me a lot just to write about it. It helps me understand myself and society and all the "stuff" I have been fed all my life (it seems). Maybe if people just think hard enough it might help them. Some, at least. I hope.

> It's just like hearing toxic people say it's all in our head's, all our imagination and not important.

Think about it. Is that what I said? It is in our heads alright, but not only ours. I did not say our suffering was unimportant. Just the contrary. I hope actually understanding all the suffering I have gone through can make a difference somehow.

If not, maybe I will return to my hole.

this isn't a go at you personally ((pachyderm))

i think you just picked a volitile subject...and you've caught me on a bad night for one. sincere apologies if you've taken this as a personal attack...it's just healing is ALL to us here obviously.

My first question: why do you need to understand society???

I'm probably the first to say that I could care less about the rest of society in comparison to myself. I mean society has been more harmful to me than it has been helpful.

Maybe the answer lies inside you...in all of us as to why we would even want to understand something or someone who has no desire to understand us.

What are you trying to tell us? That a psychotic break is all in our heads, and if we just "think different" it will all be better???

Why would anyone CHOOSE to be depressed? Or dissociated? Or psychotic?

I thought I was at least slightly intelligent but I do not understand a word of what you wrote. Please explain, I really don't get it.

> sincere apologies if you've taken this as a personal attack.

I do not. I do not always make sense to many people!

> why do you need to understand society???

Society AND myself.

Of course you are assuming that those who question you automatically believe that you think that they do not suffer- which may not be true at all.

> What are you trying to tell us? That a psychotic break is all in our heads, and if we just "think different" it will all be better???
>
> Why would anyone CHOOSE to be depressed? Or dissociated? Or psychotic?

Is that what I said? Or are you mixing me up with someone else?



I think part of what I am trying to say is that help comes in the form of understanding people, why they do what they do, and above all listening with sympathy and comprehension, knowing that we are all in this together, that we are not some weird incomprehensible fraction of humanity, totally unrelated to the rest of society.

"I submit that truth is largely with Thomas Szasz
and others who have suggested that there is no such thing as "mental illness."

your post pachyderm...the equivalent of saying there's no such thing as psychosis, dissociation, depression etc...which is the same as saying a person CHOOSES to be that way!!!

> your post pachyderm...the equivalent of saying there's no such thing as psychosis, dissociation, depression etc...which is the same as saying a person
> CHOOSES to be that way!!!

Not so.

I did not say that our suffering, in whatever form, does not exist. I say that the common explanation of it is largely wrong, that IT does not exist, IT makes little sense. I do not think I chose to suffer as I have, and as people here have.

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"Chemical imbalances in the brain" (for which there never has been any proof -- and what causes such imbalances as may exist?)

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Just because there are not advanced tests to PROVE we have chemical imbalances does not mean that the imbalances do not exist. There are numerous studies with brain scans and tests on CADAVERS that prove these imbalances. We just don't have advanced-enough medicine to take a "sample" of the dopamine in our brain.

Well guess what. 100 years ago you couldn't do a mammogram. Does that mean breast cancer didn't exist??? Just because science isn't advanced enough to PROVE it...doesn't mean it is not real.


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Do you see a distinctly "well" society around you?

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So....since everyone is messed-up mentally, that means oh we should just suck it up and pretend that it's normal to be suicidal or psychotic? Cause "everyone else is doing it"???

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My contention is that the vast majority of what we call mental illness is in origin due to the discrepancy, or enforced split, between what is said, and what is in fact, true.

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Oh, so now I am just LYING to myself if I am suicidal? I am being dishonest to say that I have mood swings??

I seriously don't understand your logic here. I'm sorry.


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So I am saying that "mental illness" is not something distinct and apart from society as a whole.

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So...are you saying that everyone is mentally ill? And that therefore no one is mentally ill?? Huh??

Or you just want to "fit in" by saying that you're not any different than society? That everyone is crazy, and therefore, crazy is normal??

so can you please explain your thinking behind why you started your post with these words:

"I submit that truth is largely with Thomas Szasz
and others who have suggested that there is no such thing as "mental illness."

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pachyderm said:
> your post pachyderm...the equivalent of saying there's no such thing as psychosis, dissociation, depression etc...which is the same as saying a person
> CHOOSES to be that way!!!

Not so.

I did not say that our suffering, in whatever form, does not exist. I say that the common explanation of it is largely wrong, that IT does not exist, IT makes little sense. I do not think I chose to suffer as I have, and as people here have.

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What is "IT"??

And if you think that "IT" does not exist...then what causes our "suffering"???

> Oh, so now I am just LYING to myself if I am suicidal? I am being dishonest to say that I have mood swings??

I said I think the ORIGIN of what we call mental illness is "enforced split, between what is said, and what is in fact, true" in our families and in our society. The RESULTS are the development of what we see as mental illness and are our symptoms and suffering. That is what I am saying. True or not.

> are you saying that everyone is mentally ill? And that therefore no one is mentally ill?

Yes, I think mental illness is a matter of degree.

Did I stir a hornet's nest or what? Please do not attribute to me things that I did not say.

it sounds like you are referring to the stigma surrounding the labels to me pachyderm... i can understand that.. stigma itself is another 'add-on' perspective and one which is totally un-neccessary imo

> What is "IT"??

Good question. In my mind the IT which I think is false is what we have been taught is "mental illness" -- something pretty mysterious that sets us wholly apart from the rest of "normal" society. Due to invented causes such as cat viruses or wholly genetic in origin, and so cannot be explained by causes that we can see and understand in our lives and in the lives of those around us.