[SweetCrusader]

Hey everyone,

I am not a vegetarian, actually, but I recently watched a video that is making me think I'm going to become one- like TODAY. This website was reccomended on another forum I frequent, so I checked it out and I could NOT believe what I saw.

Warning: this is VERY graphic. It is sickening, and it is heart-breaking. And it might just change your mind about a few things.

If you're interested, go to www.goveg.com and click on "meet your meat."

I am going to be calling 1-888-veg-food in the morning to request a vegitarianism starter kit.

Angela

PS: Emmy and/or anyone else who is veg, please pm me. I have no idea how to start determining what foods do and do not contain animal products.

[SweetCrusader]

P.S. If you're not interested, that's fine. I'm not trying to be preachy. I just saw this and thought, I'm glad I did and I would like to find out how to change some of my own actions. I am NOT trying to push this on anyone. I appreciated the information, and thought maybe some other people would, too. That's all.

[misty]

Thanks for the info. I'm getting a kit too. Gona start with slow intro with vegetarian diet. Husband and I have been talking about cutting down on meat and meat products and this would help. Sounds like there's some really good benefits to veg. diet. Milk and cheese would be my hardest to give up and glad to see they have substitutes for those. I would like to do it mostly because health wise I need to. I could not be one of those totally aginst meat products even if I did become vegetarian because I believe it is part of the cycle of life. What I am aginst is the cruelty of the animals while being raised for meat products.
mlyn

[SweetCrusader]

Yeah, same here Mlyn although I'm seriously considering going totally Vegan. I'm not sure if I could pull it off or not!

I'm glad you appreciated the info!

Angela

Oh gosh SweetC! I can't even look at those films. I know what's in them. I've been a veghead for a long time. I joke about it here (umm....tofubutt, eh?), but I do avoid serious discussions for the most part with meat eaters. When people ask, I explain - however they ALWAYS ask during meals! And how can I explain while they are eating steak? It's not exactly polite...me mum would not approve. So I just say that's it not appropriate dinner conversation, and if they are really interested, we can talk about it later. Then I try to forge on to some other witty banter, as they stare at their plate of cow.

I first became a vegetarian as a teen, because of the death and abuse of animals. I'm a BIG animal lover. I grew up near farms, so I had a clue what went on. Later in life, my spiritual choices added to my interest in remaining a vegetarian for life.

I love most of the work that PETA does, BUT I'm not a big supporter of their marketing choices. I've cooresponded with them regarding some of their ads. I wish they would put some effort in simply asking people to do three things:

1) Lobby for humane treatment of animals during their life on farms, during transport, and at the processing plants

2) Start a campaign asking people to eat less animal protein. There are so many great alternatives. If farmers and meat processors felt the pinch in their wallet, perhaps they'd understand they we mean business. We demand they stop their abuses.

3) Support small farmers who raise animals sanely. You can actually visit these farms and see for yourself how the animals are treated. Farmers like this encourage you to visit!

But what PETA does instead is have a billboard blitz telling people to stop drinking milk. Huh? Like that's going to happen?? Start smaller folks.

Anyhow, I'm not going to lecture anyone. I've managed to survive without eating animals or using leather. It can be done. And soooo much more easily now since there are so many more products available. It was NOT easy in the 70's!

If you are just starting out....forget about being a vegan for now. It's too drastic and too difficult to eat healthy. Just try cutting down the amount of animal protein you consume. Try some of the soy based products. See how it goes. Small steps, it's a journey.

Take care.

Moooooo...emmy

[SweetCrusader]

Thanks, Emmy!

It would not be too hard to cut down on animal proteins. I already do not eat red meat because I cannot digest it. I don't ever touch pork for the same reason. And I eat chicken and turkey fairly rarely, actually. Milk and cheese would be a bit harder- those are my vices, a BIG part of my diet. But after seeing those dairy cows on the video, I think I'll feel sick if I do drink milk

You know, along the lines of what both you and Mlyn have said, I do think it's a part of the life cycle and in accordance with my spiritual beliefs, it's ok to eat meat and milk and cheese BUT only sparingly, and not as a main source of nutrition like we Americans tend to do. I would support farmers raising their animals in humane ways. How do I find them and buy their milk and cheese, though? Ya know?

That video was completely DISGUSTING and terrible. I couldn't sleep all night because images popped in my head. I had to turn on a movie to distract my brain from it. But for some of us, myself included, it takes a video like that to convince us. I had NO idea how bad it was. I cannot believe people would treat a living being in such a way. I watch Animal Precinct and Miami Animal Police on Animal Planet all the time, in fact I watched MAP last night, just before getting back online and watching this awful stuff. Let me tell you, the cruetly that you see on those shows is generally NOTHING compared to what I saw in Peta's video!

Anyway, like I say, my goal is not to get all preachy here. I just shared this site with my FELLOW meat-eaters (cause yes I am one) because I know I appreciated it being shared with me.

We can continue to talk over pms about this if you'd like to, because I would really like that! And I don't want to offend anyone or push vegetarianism in anyone's face.

Angela

[SweetCrusader]

PS: I was going to say, according to my beliefs, it's ok to eat meat and cheese but NOT okay to torture, beat, starve, and otherwise abuse animals.

[SeptemberMorn]

I think the cases of abuse and torture are isolated cases. They come to the forefront because it's not the norm. Who wants to read an article of how humanely the animals are treated? It doesn't make for sensationalism.

No doubt someone here would crawl all over me if they had watched me slaughter and dress out my rabbits, chickens and goats, but the actual killing was done swiftly. There's nothing humane in killing Anything, no matter how you do it. I've had to put down several animals to end their misery, some with shots and some with a bullet between the eyes. Each and everyone of the knew what was going down. There's no mistaking the look you get. However, it HAS to be done.

[SweetCrusader]

We're not talking about a shot between the eyes. We're talking about horrific things that I would not even post here because they would be triggering.

What these videos show is ABUSE and NEGLECT of the animals. My issue is with that just as much, probably more so than the slaughtering. And that abuse and neglect doesn't have to happen. It is so sad.

That's all I'm saying. I would not judge you for putting your animals down, Tomi! I promise I wouldn't. And I'm not on some kind of crusade (not this time anyway... despite my screen name ) I just wanted to share this site because it affected me. That's all.

Angela

[SeptemberMorn]

Sweety, I went to the site. I've also seen news articles and such. When I had my animals, I was exposed to the "animals for food" world. Not so much on my land, but at slaughter houses, Egg City, which got shut down because of the inhumanity, etc. Let's face it, you're going to get sick individuals working at slaughter houses. Still, though, I think it's not the norm. Hope I don't have my head in the sand, though.

As awful as it sounds, the blurp on the chickens that said they sqwaked and screamed when touched, HECK, YES!! LOL Chickens, at the very least, are alamists! You ought to hear them holler when you reach under them to check for eggs! Granted, what the rest of the article said was sick. Again, sick individuals. You can't be soft and work at one of those places. You couldn't pay me enough now to slaughter a rabbit or a chicken, much less a goat! However, there's a rooster that I still have a case against! LOL

[Kayleigh]

Okay, I can't ever watch that kind of stuff, so I'm not going to go to that site, I'll have nightmares for weeks and weeks, but I'm a little curious. Can you tell me what was in there? Maybe not the worst parts, I don't know if I could handle that. I'm supposed to be a vegitarian (weird metabolic disorder, long story) but I'm not. I could use a little motivation, and also I want to know what kind of industry I'm supporting by being a meat eater. I understand that this isn't a "norm", and the video is probably an extreme case, but my guess is that a lesser version is probably not very uncommon. So if you could summarize, that'd be great, if it's too gruesome, I understand. Thanks.

[mj14]

Angela,

I think there are all kinds of good reasons for a vegetarian diet, and I have at times been a vegetarian, although currently I do eat some meat. But I would like to caution you that whenever someone is promoting a cause, they will exaggerate things to make their case stronger. Those videos are on that site precisely because they are shocking...not because they represent the average conditions. Some of my family members were dairy farmers, and I used to love going to see the cows...they were always given quite a bit of TLC by the people working the farm.

I think emmy hit the nail right on the head when she suggested that encouraging people to support small local farmers is an effective way to curb such abuses. Because I think the growth of agribusiness creates an atmosphere where the health and welfare of the animals becomes unimportant.

So, I applaud your decision to become a vegetarian, and your copy of "The Moosewood Cookbook" is on its way. But as a general rule, I would take anything presented by a group with an agenda with a very large grain of salt.

*hugs*
Jo

Kay - I don't think a posting list of the gruesome stuff is such a great idea. It's pretty disgusting. I did find a link which is pure text, no photos if you are interested in learning more. It includes references at the end with journals for further research for those who are interested.

emmy

"as a general rule, I would take anything presented by a group with an agenda with a very large grain of salt."

MJ - Every church, political organzation, and even DocJohn has an agenda! I too have an agenda. It's too annoy the bejeezes out of at least one person on a daily basis. Have I accomplished this yet????

Oh yeah, my udder agenda is to end all war. I plan to do this by purchasing an ice cream truck and a la Michael Moore, drive around Bagdad, for example, with a megaphone. I shall be reading out loud from "The Runaway Bunny". It's just the best book ever, and I'm convinced if everyone heard it everyday, the world would be a better place.

Emmy

Emsky,

No missle pops on the menu then I would guess..............sigh.

The Runaway Bunny (ISBN: 0061074292 ) is a good one but I'm partial to anything by Margaret Wise Brown. Ever read The Country Bunny and the Little Gold Shoes? (ISBN: 0395159903 ) I think both bunny stories have merits that today's world could use.

The Runaway Bunny is that a mother's love is forever and always there. And The Country Bunny with wits to outmatch the stronger forces in the world.

Super bunny powers unite?

I buy body products that have the kind to bunny symbols. Does that count?

[mj14]

You are absotively right, emmy...there are agendas everywhere. Which is why I am skeptical of just about everything!

One of my best friends used to be the executive director of a bicycle advocacy group. The man who was the director when she first joined the group was a true zealot, and I would get so annoyed at how irrational he was about his cause, saying that there was no need for cyclists to obey traffic lights, etc. My girlfriend said something that really stuck with me about him...that to effectively advance a cause, you have to be very single-minded about it, and not accept anything that detracts from your mission. So I guess I will never be a lobbyist, or lead a cause, because I am entirely too equivocal...to me, life is all about gray area.

Athough...maybe in reality I am also a zealot, and my agenda is to prove to the world that there's another side to every story.

Jo

[Kayleigh]

That's quite a paradox .

[Kayleigh]

Well, my grandpa used to be a cattle farmer, and I know not ALL places work like that. The animals on his farm were really well loved and given a full life. It makes me sad to know that people actually do that kind of stuff, but just know that not ALL cattle farmers are like that, okay? I hope that kind of stuff you posted isn't a norm.

[ktp]

I have to agree with Sept's points on the chickens.

I have somewhere around 30 at the moment and they will squawk and carry on if you get too close to them. They really are nature's drama queens.

I am sorta on the fence about the whole thing. I am a meat eater. I hunt and fish with my family. That's tradition. We don't torture or maim, we eat. We had to at times growing up and even after marriage to supplement our food supply.

I grew up in rural Arkansas. We were fairly poor, and we had to slaughter animals for food all the time. It was a normal part of our lives. Not to say we mutilated or otherwise did ghastly things, we just did it as quickly as possible. I never was one of those that thought meat came in pretty little packages from the supermarket. I KNEW even as a kid where it came from.

Ofcourse, I mean no offense to vegetarians everywhere. I'm of the sort to "live and let live".

However, the only thing that struck a cord with me is PETA. There are two sides to every story and if you read one please read the other side so that you can make an informed decision. I'm going to provide a few links below, read if you want, bypass if you don't.

http://www.activistcash.com/organiza...iew.cfm/oid/21

http://www.consumerfreedom.com/news_...?headline=2672

Actually these are two great websites to visit if you make contributions to certain organizations. We all have the right to know this information but they compile it on one or two websites to make it convenient to know who you're supporting and what they truly stand for. My husband and I go here before we contribute any money to any foundation, which we love to do

http://www.activistcash.com

http://www.consumerfreedom.com

Not trying to stir trouble, just trying to put a different non-biased perspective to everyone. The whole two sides to every story thing.

Peace and love to all
(((((Hugs))))))
Kimberly.

[ktp]

Oh, I might have confused a few....I don't know if it's been mentioned but GOVEG is supported and actually, if I'm not mistaken, an undertaking of PETA. I apologize if I'm wrong.

Take Care,
Kimberly.

[SweetCrusader]

I didn't mean to start such an uproar! Yes I'm very aware of the fact that Peta has an agenda. And believe it or not, I also tend to be a skeptical person about just about everything. However, I had already bounced the idea of vegetarianism around in my head thanks to Emmy and Wendy, and when I saw this, I felt like giving it a LOT more serious thought. And I also agreed with Emmy's talk about supporting farmers who treat their animals humanely. I feel I have considered all the arguements that keep being presented.

I never presented this as if it were what happens EVERYWHERE, so I don't understand why everyone is responding as if I'm an uninformed and easily persuaded twit, but I guess that's all about perspectives.

I will not describe graphically and in detail the things that happened. Sorry, Kayleigh. I just can't. I'm sorry, but I'm already very disturbed and upset about what I saw

Thanks everyone for your input. I didn't mean to cause such a big fuss. Maybe a mod should delete the whole thing.

Angela

[SweetCrusader]

And PS- the arguement was NOT about the chickens sqwacking (however you spell it). It was about really cruel conditions that the chickens were living under. TRUST ME, I grew up in a farming community and this was a lot more than just sqwaky chickens. It was SICK stuff.

[ktp]

Hold on a minute, Angela....

No one said you were "an uninformed or easily persuaded twit"! To the contrary, you are a good friend of mine and I was not aiming that post at you or anyone else.

I was simply stating that there are impressionable people (I happen to be one of them) who do take one side of the story and decide from there. I was actually thinking about myself and the other people who read the initial post.

I know you've been upset lately and dear, I'm sorry if I upset you even more but as far as I'm concerned there is no uproar or no fuss! I see no reason to get the post deleted either, there is alot of good information on people considering vegetarianism and also on the other side of the fence Remember sweety, I am of the sort to live and let live.

Is there anything you want to talk about ? You seem very upset. Please feel free to PM me. We're all friends here, keep that in mind.

(((((((((((ANGELA))))))))))))))

Take Care and keep your chin up hun,
Kimberly.

[ktp]

That's true Angela, about the SICK stuff. That is not the norm, thankfully. I, too, am an animal lover and....

That sort of thing can be very triggering (it is for me). I'm very worried about you.

(((((HUGS)))))
Kimberly.

[SweetCrusader]

Just like you said you weren't aiming for me, I also wasn't aiming my post specifically at you, Kimberly It was a general response to the repeated posts telling me to take this with a grain of salt, etc.

I am overly sensitive and I know that. I get very defensive about any suggestion that I haven't fully considered something or that I'm not smart- and that goes by my INTERPRETATION more than the INTENT. It's a product of my history. Hey guess what everybody, I freak out too! lol!

Sorry folks, I try to keep it in check but it happens sometimes.

Any mods wanna take that outta there, feel free.

Angela