Stay in the US or move to the UK?

My wife and I have left the US and moved to the UK because we could not afford to live here. We ended up moving back to the US because I have another child here and being away from that child was very depressing for me. I currently live in the State of Virginia, but the child lives in Florida. (The reason why we don't live in Florida is beyond the scope of this post, but suffice it to say that I have tried to afford living close to my child in Florida but have failed financially and had to move about 5 times).

Now I make substantially more income and things are ok in the material sense.

We have some serious financial fears as indicated here:

http://forums.psychcentral.com/showf...5&o=21&fpart=1

I am sorry if my link to this post confuses you, but just wanted to give you some history.

As I said, we are better off financially than we have ever been, but child support is always a financial hinderance. (Please don't start talking to me about "how I shouldn't have a problem supporting my child" because this is not the time or place for what is truly a political debate).

I feel that moving back to the UK would serve as a buffer against the bureaucratic nightmare called "child support" should I ever become jobless or there ever be an accounting error at that State Agency. (This kept happening to me and I lost my license many times, got my passport taken away, got my credit wrecked etc, etc.)

If the bureaucracy hits me the wrong way even once, It is likely that I will end up getting arrested and lose my job for failure to pay. (Even though I am simultaneously paying). I could sit in jail for years for failing to pay while I am in jail. Paranoid? Well it has happened.

Then it will be too late to make a move to the UK.

Other things I like about the UK over the US are as follows:

1) If one of my kids is threatened or hurt, I don't have to go to jail for 15 years to honor or protect them (USA Style). I can do a UK overnight. (It is not like I am looking for trouble...to the contrary, I want to be able to protect my kids and defend their honor without having them homeless and probably with their violator because I would end up in jail for protecting them).

2) I won't always have the stress of worrying about whether or not we can afford the medical bills we get here. (My wife is in average health for a 26 year old), but tends to have alot of smaller health issues some of which are due to the fact that her mother and father are both dead at age 46 and 50.

3) I won't have to worry about my children going to college as much as I would here. Some college is free in the UK. I don't want them to encounter the potentially unpayable debt and all of the stress that I have come to know that is associated with it.

4) For reasons mentioned in the above post, I am financially afraid of living like this. I am not a big fan of government hand outs, but I'd rather be in the UK where government can be my daddy if I fall into financial havoc yet again than to see my kids do without. The concept of "don't worry you will find another job" has failed me many times. Now, with no support system, I cannot afford that type of failure.

I know in the end it is only me who can call the shots and knows my situation best, but I don't want to be too flighty when things are now going relatively good nor do I want to wait until they go wrong again and not be able to make my escape!

Thank you for your time!

i can sympathize with your child support woes. i was labeled a dead beat mom while spending 2 years paying child support to my childs deceased grandmother and actually having physical custody of the child. my child finally went when she turned 18 and got the writ of bodily attachment lifted for me and a couple months later they sent the money i had to pay the dead woman back to daughter.

it sounds like you don't have a whole lot of contact with your child in FL, and also like you will continue to support that child to the best of your ability in the UK. i would go for it if i was you. jmho

lost

Oh my!

This is exactly what I mean. Let me clarify a bit since you brought out an important point (s).

First of all, I do get to see my child up here. He flies up unaccompanied. I get to see him in the summer and on a few alternating holidays during the year. (although not as much as the status qo). The reason that I don't get to see him as much as others was because I drafted my own lawsuit against the ex and ended up agreeing to less time because I could not afford an attorney.

In this case it is very important to note that the ex will not allow visitation when I move and will throw up any roadblock possible. When I moved up here to VA, I had to file my own lawsuit because my ex refused any visitation whatsoever. The ex's refusals are well complimented by a biased judge.

Last time we moved to the UK, I used the attorney (to try to enforce international visitation) that I used during my divorce (ironically very biased against me as well, and very accomodating to the ex). My attorney and the ex dragged the hearing date out for over a year!

At that time, I decided enough was enough and dragged my present family back to Florida to try to spend time with my son. Within months, the same thing happened (as it always does). I was not able to survive financially with the job that I got in Florida and ended up moving to Virginia (where things are good)...but I am full of fear that is well grounded (such as yours).

Secondly, if I could move to the UK and not pay "Child Support", then I would. The reason I say this is because I have a problem paying someone for the disservice of being selfish and not promoting TRUE equal parenting due to the lure of easy money. "Child Support" goes directly to the ex's "fun money" as it does for so many others. Even if it didn't, I have a real problem paying that money anyways, and if it wasn't for all of the bells and whistles that constantly go off, then I would not pay. I think that if someone wants to act like both parents by witholding parenting in any way without TRUE cause, then they should act like both parents and support their kid. My opinion on this is extremely strong and will not be swayed. (So please don't engage me in a political argument) The only reason that I mention this is because I didn't want any misconceptions about what I believe, since it will probably play a role in what I do next.

Third,

We may have to stay with some of my wife's family if we were to go out there. I mentioned that everyone alienates us out there. It is not quite as bad out there I believe. We believe that we are only alienated out here because we left there. We would probably have to stay with them until we got on our feet (yet again). They all smoke. As an American you know doubt know how my mind has been conditioned against smoking. I don't want my kids to be around smokers for a few weeks or months. It was a problem for me last time, and I am sure that it will be this time. Although I really can't tell people to go smoke outside their house if it is the norm there.

Thank you for your thoughts! They were very useful. Thank you for taking the time out of your day to say something.

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blkchr91 said:

1) If one of my kids is threatened or hurt, I don't have to go to jail for 15 years to honor or protect them (USA Style). I can do a UK overnight. (It is not like I am looking for trouble...to the contrary, I want to be able to protect my kids and defend their honor without having them homeless and probably with their violator because I would end up in jail for protecting them).

2) I won't always have the stress of worrying about whether or not we can afford the medical bills we get here. (My wife is in average health for a 26 year old), but tends to have alot of smaller health issues some of which are due to the fact that her mother and father are both dead at age 46 and 50.

3) I won't have to worry about my children going to college as much as I would here. Some college is free in the UK. I don't want them to encounter the potentially unpayable debt and all of the stress that I have come to know that is associated with it.

4) For reasons mentioned in the above post, I am financially afraid of living like this. I am not a big fan of government hand outs, but I'd rather be in the UK where government can be my daddy if I fall into financial havoc yet again than to see my kids do without. The concept of "don't worry you will find another job" has failed me many times. Now, with no support system, I cannot afford that type of failure.

I know in the end it is only me who can call the shots and knows my situation best, but I don't want to be too flighty when things are now going relatively good nor do I want to wait until they go wrong again and not be able to make my escape!

Thank you for your time!

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in response to your post about uk or us

i can give you some input about living in the uk as i have one all my life

1,all parents want to protect there child/childrens honour and are even willing to go to jail for this
not sure about laws to this i suppose depends on the crime

2,yes they way we go about our medical things are diferant as we use the nhs(natinal health service)
which is paid for by your wages
prescriptions are not free, waiting lists to have medical precidures are long, mental health teams cant do there best because not enough resources for the amount of ppl with mental health problems the dentist system sucks in uk at the moment because most dentist were nhs and are leaving the nhs to go private there isnt eniough dentists for everyone some ppl have to travel miles just to be seen and others only go when they have a problem missing out on the check ups and all

3,education is free up untill they reach 16 if they decide to go on to further education (collage) this to can be free and they could get money for going depending on parents income but if they go to university they have to pay they can borrow this and pay it back when they are in a job which allows them to afford to pay it bk

4,yes the goverment will help you out if you fall on hard times if you pay stamp you get bk some money to support your family and also help with rent its all down to if you qualify

this just some of the things we deal with

Thank you for your thoughts. My thoughts were more Scottish in nature. I would like to respond as follows:

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i can give you some input about living in the uk as i have one all my life

1,all parents want to protect there child/childrens honour and are even willing to go to jail for this
not sure about laws to this i suppose depends on the crime

<font color="red"> Based on my experiences on US vs. UK. If you defend someones honor in the US, there is all hell to pay. If you were to do the same in the UK you won't have the same issue from what I can see. I would be reluctant to defend my child's honor in the USA, because if I did, I would go to jail for a very long time and my family depends on me. </font>

2,yes they way we go about our medical things are diferant as we use the nhs(natinal health service)
which is paid for by your wages
prescriptions are not free, waiting lists to have medical precidures are long, mental health teams cant do there best because not enough resources for the amount of ppl with mental health problems the dentist system sucks in uk at the moment because most dentist were nhs and are leaving the nhs to go private there isnt eniough dentists for everyone some ppl have to travel miles just to be seen and others only go when they have a problem missing out on the check ups and all

<font color="red"> When I lived in Scotland I never had a problem getting prescriptions for free. I never had a long wait in getting seen to. In fact, I was seen to quicker there than I ever was in Florida. I agree with the dental stuff, but that seems hit or miss. I have heard about some people in Fife getting their teeth done for free (braces etc) </font>

3,education is free up untill they reach 16 if they decide to go on to further education (collage) this to can be free and they could get money for going depending on parents income but if they go to university they have to pay they can borrow this and pay it back when they are in a job which allows them to afford to pay it bk

<font color="red"> I think you get some community college for free in Scotland. </font>

4,yes the goverment will help you out if you fall on hard times if you pay stamp you get bk some money to support your family and also help with rent its all down to if you qualify

<font color="red"> Indeed. </font>

this just some of the things we deal with

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the laws in scotland are diferant than the rest of the uk,

not sure about prescriptions being free in scotland for everyone if you work in the uk you pay the going rate
comunity collage is what my 14 year old is doing now and my 16 year old has done hes going on to collage in sept to do a course there he wont leave with a degree he has to go to universtity for that

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katheryn said:
the laws in scotland are diferant than the rest of the uk,

not sure about prescriptions being free in scotland for everyone if you work in the uk you pay the going rate
comunity collage is what my 14 year old is doing now and my 16 year old has done hes going on to collage in sept to do a course there he wont leave with a degree he has to go to universtity for that

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Good luck with the kids. The prescription thing in Scotland comes down to enforecement.

I'm not sure of the question here, as it honestly appears that you've already made up your mind on this matter:

- You've listed all the benefits of living in the UK and Scotland and virtually none of the negatives
- You've listed all of the negatives of living in the U.S. and virtually none of the benefits (except that you're in the same country, but not the same state as your son)

You've tried this once already and got so depressed you moved back over to the U.S., but it sounds like it's just been too difficult and frustrating for you to stay.

So I'd say you have your answer -- you've tried, you seem to have given up on trying to live here and you want to move back over to the UK where you see the grass is greener. As long as you feel you can handle/cope with the depression associated with not being "near" your son, it sounds as if your mind is already made up.

DocJohn

If things are good in Virginia, I think I'd save a bit of money, get decent legal counsel in Florida and drag your ex- back into court in another courtroom from the one run by her pet goons and get a different setup going. Save up evidence of mistakes by the Court/System in collecting your money and incorrectly jailing you, your additional children requiring support, lower wages, etc. You can inconvenience your ex- as well as she has you. I'd at least try it.

Leave "worries" about the future/college, etc. to when they're appropriate. The US has free and scholarship programs for college too and many kids these days pay their way through anyway while working. Kids grow up and then it's a total non-issue; moving now might waste lots of opportunity to interact and be with your son and frustrate you further; move in 10 years after he's grown and can do as he wishes and you can help him then as you like, it will go by in a flash.

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DocJohn said:
I'm not sure of the question here, as it honestly appears that you've already made up your mind on this matter:

- You've listed all the benefits of living in the UK and Scotland and virtually none of the negatives
- You've listed all of the negatives of living in the U.S. and virtually none of the benefits (except that you're in the same country, but not the same state as your son)

You've tried this once already and got so depressed you moved back over to the U.S., but it sounds like it's just been too difficult and frustrating for you to stay.

So I'd say you have your answer -- you've tried, you seem to have given up on trying to live here and you want to move back over to the UK where you see the grass is greener. As long as you feel you can handle/cope with the depression associated with not being "near" your son, it sounds as if your mind is already made up.

DocJohn

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Very good post! Thank you for sharing your thoughts with me. I

I know this may be a vague question, but for me it has been one that no one has ever provided thoughts on.

How could I cope/handle being away from my son, if it came to that?

Thank you

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Perna said:
If things are good in Virginia, I think I'd save a bit of money, get decent legal counsel in Florida and drag your ex- back into court in another courtroom from the one run by her pet goons and get a different setup going. Save up evidence of mistakes by the Court/System in collecting your money and incorrectly jailing you, your additional children requiring support, lower wages, etc. You can inconvenience your ex- as well as she has you. I'd at least try it.

Leave "worries" about the future/college, etc. to when they're appropriate. The US has free and scholarship programs for college too and many kids these days pay their way through anyway while working. Kids grow up and then it's a total non-issue; moving now might waste lots of opportunity to interact and be with your son and frustrate you further; move in 10 years after he's grown and can do as he wishes and you can help him then as you like, it will go by in a flash.

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I like this post, and the latter part puts me at ease a bit. Most people don't want to see their children grow up, but this child I certainly do for the reasons you stated.

I am going to do some legal research to see if it is possible that another judge/courtroom could decide our fates. That has been something I have always thought of, but never explored. I thought the answer was that the same judge had exclusive jurisdiction over everything. I don't want to turn this into a legal forum, so I will do my due diligence.

Thank you for this post!

My husband was divorced (Maryland) and he got a lawyer first (a woman) who advised him to move to another county and buy a house (establish residency) and then file for divorce first as that would make his county "in charge". His ex-wife wanted alimony for life and the county he moved to, bought our house in and filed from had never granted that.

I don't know what kind of divorce settlement you have but I'm sure if things "change" then you can request everyone go back to court and do an "update".

I would contact a lawyer down there, any lawyer (except the one you had :-) and learn if there's differences between counties and if the lawyer practices in a different county from your wife's and if that could be used to your advantage.

As "your" lawyer would be petitioning for everyone to come back and look at things again, it might help get it away from your wife's "area" (adjoining county might be fine, somewhere "close" where it wouldn't inconvenience her to have to travel there but would be out of her jurisdiction and might catch her lawyer out).

It's a "State" divorce but the State has different judges and traditions in different counties so see if a lawyer(s) can advise you on that e-mail and just get a general idea of if such a thing might work/be feasible before you go down there and hire someone.

I'd find some lawyer offices online and tell your situation now and your little story simply (what you want to do rather than complaining too much about what's been done to you at this preliminary time) and see what "free" e-mail responses you get.

There's bound to be a few hungry enough to want your business who will answer and you can then do a more deliberate interview through email and phone to choose 2-3 that feel "good" to you, that you feel you could work with, to then go down and interview in person.