Frustration

Ok...gonna make a suggestion. Please take this as tactfully as I hope I can put it. I really like being here, meeting everyone here, talking to folks here, and I think everyone here is great in your own way.

I am feeling frustrated at the amount of posts being directed to new members regarding "rules". I think it's great that people are trying to help new people (who don't seem to have time to read the rules anymore).

We have moderators and administrators for a reason. Maybe we could let them handle the "rules" and their enforcement? Since that is part of their job?

That would save a lot of negative feelings toward folks.. I don't know.

I guess that's just my opinion. Take it for what it's worth.

Ok, I'm trying to not take this personally. As improbable as it may be, there have been times when I've wondered why new members haven't "gotten a feel" for this board before they start posting their angry, defensive posts. There was a time I liked welcoming new members, but no more. Instead, I wait to "get a feeling" about them before I respond to them. There have been a couple that have responded to me or posted in one of my threads where I have NOT appreciated their response AT ALL! Then, I will say something... or when they are really obnoxious. Maybe it's my reticense to accept drastic change or maybe it's my own personal sensitivites or maybe even my own personal boundaries. My own boundaries were completely run over or were non-existent for a lot of my life. When I realized that it was good to have personal boundaries, it just happened inside me to not allow people to run over them ever again.

The membership here is my extended family. It's my second home. I'm very protective of that in 3D as well as here. Greg, I've seen you share some of these feelings with me and have acted upon them for which I'm eternally grateful. You made me feel cared about, protected and validated. I want to protect "my second home," too.

... for what it's worth.

Hmmm <font color="blue">

I'm on all "sides" here... nearly all the "newbies" remark ( either in post or in chat) that they have been coming here or at the very least have been reading many of the posts before they joined.

As for "rules" if that's what you really mean, well, there's no true excuse for NOT bothering to read them, for abusing them, or for becoming upset when reminded of them.

If you're truly speaking only of good suggestions (i.e. mine with reference to a post that might not receive the response the newbie would normally see, unless it was moved...) then maybe some of us CAN do better.

As for me? I do the best I can do for the time I'm doing it! I like to think we all are. Anyone reading our posts will realize we are all suffering somehow.

I still prefer someone with a problem with one of my posts would PM me about it and not air out the laundry in front of all... because newbies and fragile members read it too.

My opinion of the moderators is that they also do the best they can... however, being unpaid volunteers - as I have been repeatedly reminded - they don't catch everything, even when they read it sometimes. And for me, to "notify" a moderator just causes more friction. Plus, DocJohn is on as moderator and most of this surely doesn't require HIS time and energy!

The newbie coming on and feeling criticised is unfortunate. But also remember, in other sites, they receive lots of criticism. They might just have a chip on their shoulder from that. Some might not even be ready for this site, even though they might well be the ones who need it most.

Just IMO

Addendum: <font color="purple">

Making members here feel like they did something wrong is more wrong( than to newbies,) I feel, because the member has already given time and effort, given some of themselves and personal life, and understands more about the site, recognizes abnormalities, and also seeks to secure it.

I know I made a misstep by PM'ing a new member about a custom here -- I really don't like to think of them as rules. I have to agree that it wasn't my place (BTW -- this is Wants2Fly, not a new member, haven't ironed out a login problem on a temporary backup computer.)

I haven't been here near so long as many -- but I did come to think of it as a safe place to be. I'm really sorry that I may have inadvertently caused someone to feel "not safe" here.

However, I have been very disturbed by posts that go beyond anger, to pure rage. And seeming willful determination to tear down anyone who disagrees in ugly ways, with nasty language. I just try to keep in mind that others who come here may be as desperate and disturbed as I have been/can be. And to ignore posts if someone triggers me too much. I can't come here to face ugliness.

Thanks for bringing this up, 1Day

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I'm on all "sides" here... nearly all the "newbies" remark ( either in post or in chat) that they have been coming here or at the very least have been reading many of the posts before they joined.

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Sky, IMO, we're all talking about the odd newbie that comes charging in here telling us what's wrong with this site or feels free to use whatever language they are used to using elsewhere, not realizing that we keep that kind of stuff to a bare minimum, not Every Newbie. You are right in that MOST newbies read the board and the guideline before they jump in.

As for the poster that was called on "solicitation," I don't think that was the case at all! It was just a matter of asking for help.

IMO, it's the ATTITUDE that matters.

I really didn't bring this up to hurt anyones feelings.

I agree, if you are new it is your responsibility to read the rules. But the fact is, most people don't. I don't know if there is a way to "require" people to read them (like when they sign up), but most people assume the rules are generally the same everywhere.

I'm afraid it will get worse though, as we are gaining so many new members all the time.

I've struggled with saying something for about a week now. I kept waffling back and forth because I didn't want to hurt anyone's feelings. I really like EVERYONE here. You've all be so kind to me and helped me through rough patches in my life. When I first came here I worried about everything I posted. Read it over and over to be sure I wouldn't offend anyone. Recently, I've felt accepted so I've stopped obsessing over everything I write. Next time, I will keep my lip zipped as it's really not that huge a deal. I made a mountain out of a molehill and I apologize.

Amy and Angie...please don't think you did anything wrong. I am very sorry if I hurt your feelings it was not my intention.

Morn and Sky...you guys are great. If someone responds rudely to your post, you have every right to reply.

Like I said...forget I said anything. I think I will go back to lurking for a bit.

Hun, !! Don't feel bad about bringing this up. The subject has been on many minds lately. It's always been my belief that if one member has a problem, we all do. It needs to be brought up, discussed and taken care of. You have every right to express your concerns.

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1day, please don't regret having spoken your mind. I for one appreciate it, because you have observed a particular tone on the forums, even without being directly involved in the conversation.

I am dismayed by how many people are saying they don't feel welcome here. This is not isolated to one or two people who are speaking out about it...there are many more who are quietly trying to find a safe corner to hide in.

Sometimes, new people are going to misstep when they first come here. Not everyone has an easy time of fitting in right away. To correct small missteps when someone is new can only make a person feel unwelcome. Some have reacted to this with anger. But returning that anger with more anger only escalates the situation, it does nothing to help it.

We are all of us human, and are all struggling with our own issues. No member's feelings are more important than another's. I would ask that everyone, old and new members alike, try to remember that the person they are talking to is dealing with difficult things, too, and maybe take a breath before responding to something that has made you angry. There is a thread right now that discusses how much better it is to use "I" statements. Especially when feelings are running high, to frame a response in terms of your own feelings instead of another's actions can keep a small disagreement from turning into a large argument.

This forum is a great one because it is such a supportive environment. I hope that everyone who needs it can receive that support.

Jo

1day You didn't do anything wrong either, in posting this thought. IMO.

Well MJ, I know I am still not welcomed in one of the forums... so I stay out of there. It still isn't fair..and makes me sad if I revisit it, but since I'm the adult, I moved on.

And for everyone I don't get angry but once every two blue moons, OK? I do get upset sometimes, I do have feelings that can be crushed, especially when things aren't being "fair" for me or others. Also, just because I state my opinions pretty clearly, usually, does not mean they negate your opinions and feelings. I enjoy good chatting, and posting... active engagment, strong support of your own ideals ... even if I think you're wrong LOL

Just don't be afraid of me or hate me for my way of stating things. OK?