[Fuzzybear]

manipulative mean to you? I do believe that it is a symptom of many personality disorders or traits of PD's and also that it can manifest itself in many different ways. I personally have found that those who judge others the most harshly as manipulative are themselves manipulative. I probably shouldn't post this but I would appreciate any positive, kind replies.

Thanks
Fuzzy

(edited to add additional question mark to title )

I don't know, Fuzzy. But I think there are some people who are manipulative and for somebody else to see that doesn't neccessarily mean that that person him/herself is manipulative.
Although if the person sees manipulation in many areas where there isn't any manipulation-it may be insecurity or paranoia from the person seeing/feeling it.
I think we all get a little paranoid and insecure.
(((((Fuzzy)))))

Did I understand your question right?

[Fuzzybear]

Thanks Jax, I think you understood my question right and your reply makes sense......thanks (((((((((( Jax )))))))))))

(edited..... as above )

[darkeyes]

I think it can be just upbringing,besides a PD.
Plus if people allow themselves to be manipulated,then it just strengthens the manipulators.
There are books,on how not to be manipulated,I can remember a free one I got from my son's former Tae Kwon Doe instructor,I do not know the right spelling,it's been years since that time.
But even the instructor stressed to the young kids,how to say "no" to those who try to manipulate/control you.
I think controlling people are the same,my husband never was controlling,but over years of managerial type positions,he has become near impossible to live with,but I stand my ground,and refuse to be controlled by him or anyone.
Took years for me to learn this,felt awkward too,but now it's 2nd nature.
Never allow others to manipulate,you are a person and have your own "self",this is my suggestions for many.
Just a rambling from me.

it can manifest itself in many different ways.

Good point bear. Sometimes I think people manipulate others and are truly unaware of it, or see it as gentle "persuasion."

those who judge others the most harshly as manipulative are themselves manipulative

As a diversion maybe, to deflect their own bad behavior back on the other so as not to look manipulative, lol.

"The kettle calling the kettle black"

From the dictionary

Manipulative
Skillful in influencing or controlling others to your own advantage.

Manipulate
Influence or control shrewdly or deviously

[Perna]

To me, manipulative is having an agenda that doesn't change based on the situation or another person's involvement and feedback. It's a "rigidity" of sorts, wanting a certain outcome and working to get that outcome. It's not bad, just defeatist because it doesn't take the other person or outside circumstances into account and the other person isn't going to like that.

If someone were to perceive me as manipulative, I'd stop and look at my behavior and listen to what they said so I could understand where they were coming from. Looking at another person's behavior is only useful when it tells me about mine since I'm the only one I can control or do anything about. Who called me manipulative would matter to me also, whether it was someone I knew and trusted like a T or a good friend or whether it was just someone whom I didn't know well or who didn't know me well yet.

Who called me manipulative would matter to me also, whether it was someone I knew and trusted like a T or a good friend or whether it was just someone whom I didn't know well or who didn't know me well yet.

Excellent point! Very important to keep in mind, bear.

[Fuzzybear]

Thanks everyone for the excellent feedback! I will post more tomorrow......