[Cyran0]

So I've long suspected that a personality disorder could be my real problem as my usual diagnosis never fit exactly right (which is why I get so many of them). Online tests for personality disorders have yielded interesting results but recently I stumbled across something that absolutely fits me in nearly every respect, the compensatory narcissistic personality disorder. For the first time ever I thought, THAT'S ME!

The problem is that, as I understand it, it doesn't really exist. Right now it's sort of a theory, I suppose like the concept of complex PTSD. Does anyone know anything about this? Here's the link should anyone want to see what I'm talking about http://www.ptypes.com/compensatory-narpd.html

I'm very frustrated right now. It seemed so accurate and then I discover it's not even real?! Grrrr!

It figures, only I could have an illness that doesn't exist.

Cyran0

[RiverX]

Hi,
That sounds confusing, one place defines it, then you read something that says it doesnt exist....? ? and automatically you believe that it doesnt exist! sounds like you just abdicated you own sense, experience and judgement to the 'professionals' or someone........?

you could be talking about closet narcissist, which would fit with what you just did, you abdicate your own experience to make someone else the authority without questioning it.

I've got a disorder, and I've done that type of thing so often, and lived to regret it.

I dont know what your thing is that leads you to identify with this pd, but could this be it?

riverx

[CedarS]

I'll just throw out some ideas here, don't know if anything will be useful:

You read the information and it fits you, so I'd say that it is real. It is real for other people too.

What is important is your real experience.

Yes, this is still seen as theory etc. by others, but it is important to you.

Even if say you end up working on NPD with a therapist and not strictly CNPD, there are still many things you can learn and try. Cognitive behavioral therapy can be tailored to your needs, no matter what.

I think it is cool that you found something that you recognize in yourself. You get to try things out, experiment, get good help, develop your own goals.

The first step of knowing where you are is a big deal. You have an excellent place to work from.

What I don't really get is this need that people have to classify themselves into boxes. Why is it important to have a correct diagnosis? So one can get effective treatment. Unfortunately... Treatment for mental disorders isn't really diagnostic specific (because the majority of conditions found in the DSM won't survive through to the 'final science' because they are fairly arbitrary collections of symptoms...).

Is it about... Trying to figure out who one is? And the appeal of a personality disorder diagnosis that it will somehow peg you down. Tell it to you like it is.

Personality research is problematic... Seeing ones personality as being flawed even more so.

This sounds to me like a particular theory of narcissistic personality disorder. Some theorists would say that narcissism is ALWAYS compensatory.

Indeed the technical term 'narcissism' is a little different from what we often take it to be (it isn't such an insult). Both borderline personality and narcissistic personality disorder are thought to be 'narcissistic' conditions in that the compensatory response is to focus on oneself (or ones intense emotions in the case of borderline personality).

[RiverX]

alexandra, I think you're referring to Kohut theory, which has since been challenged by others.
For me finding and understanding 'intrapsychic structure', of mine and others and how different they are and how they all interelate brought me more understanding than anything I;d ever done before. and believe me I'd been searching a long long time. I dont go along with the DSM, its not about that, its a far deeper and more expereintial thing, DSM is just like described from outside, like pdocs looking at laboratory animals.........ghghg orrible!! what i discovered is different altogether, for me its a bit like an alchoholic saying 'I'm an alcoholic', I say "I've got the 'self in exile disorder'.
also, I believe we can recover.

river

[90mphINneutral]

Well Ive been diagnosed with the full blown narcissistic personality disorder. what exactly does compensetory mean, that you compensate for something. I dont know I dont know much about my own narcissisism much less someone elses.

Actually I'm not meaning to talk about Kohut's theory though the terms may have originated with him - I'm meaning to be talking about the conceptualization that is accepted by the current diagnostic authority - The american psychaitric association.

Narcissistic personality disorder and borderline personality disorder are both considered to be instances of the same 'cluster' of personality disorders.

You will find the idea that narcissism is a defense against low self esteem in a number of places. Also comes up with respect to mania being a defense against depression / despair and grandious and paranoid delusions particularly so.

[Cyran0]

Huh, interesting conversation. Thanks for the feedback.

As to the question, why is it so important to get a label? I can't speak for others but in my case I've long felt like I didn't really understand my own problems. Dx's didn't seem to fit and yet I'm being treated for it. That's why I care.

I had my T appointment today and we discussed this personality disorder. He didn't seem to care that it's not in the DSM. He was most interested in the fact that I saw myself in the description and proposed diagnostic criteria. It seemed to me that he felt we were on to something and we basically spent the session on this. He concluded by talking about how we'll deal with things going forward.

So did my dx change? I don't know, I kinda forgot to ask at the end of the session. But he took it seriously and that meant a lot.

Cyran0

Hey. Yeah, I didn't mean to be dismissive of your desire to know what label is most appropriate - I'm sorry if I came across that way. I guess I just think the issue is: 'what does getting the label correct mean to you?'

Because... Treatments aren't diagnosis specific for the most part. They are more symptom specific than diagnosis specific. Finding the label that most accurately describes the symptoms that you exhibit (if there is such a thing) really doesn't make a difference to treatment (unless it comes to third party funded).

How does a diagnosis help you understand your symptoms? A diagnosis is a label applied to a bundle of symptoms (a symptom cluster) but merely redescribing something (by attaching a label) doesn't provide an explanation.

'why does the medication put people to sleep?'
'because of its sleep inducing power'
Isn't really an explanation at all.

Similarly
'why does this person feel anxious'
'because they suffer from generalized anxiety disorder'
Isn't really an explanation at all because it is a mere redescription of the symptom.

> He was most interested in the fact that I saw myself in the description and proposed diagnostic criteria.

Yeah. The way you see yourself is really important. I guess I'm just wondering about why you have an urge to see yourself in terms of a diagnostic label that merely purports to redescribe symptoms by attaching a label?

Is it that you thought the explanation for the symptoms that they offered might be something that you can take on board with respect to explaining your symptoms? A way to... See yourself?

I guess I'd just say to be careful with pre-packaged views that might be helpful in some respects and harmful in others. One of the most wonderful and terrifying things about being a person is that while we are similar to others in all respects our particular combination of properties makes us unique.

[Perna]

Interesting article by Sam talking about narcissism, depression and anxiety:

http://www.toddlertime.com/sam/17.htm

[Cyran0]

Alexandra, let me further elaborate.

It's a terrible thing to have problems that are disrupting your life and not really understanding what they are. You know something is terribly wrong but explanations presented to you don't seem to cover what you're experiencing. So despite getting treatment for the symptoms, you still feel this incredible uncertainty. Because of this uncertainty you wonder if it's only you and you feel isolated and alone.

I believe there's a great deal of power in knowledge. I also think it's an essential component to peace of mind. Finally, if my problem does lie in a narcissistic personality issue, it's important to have that knowledge during therapy as it's that much more insight my therapist can use to deal with me and my problems.

I feel a lot better now that I've discussed this with my T and I trust his judgement as to whether or not he wants to adjust my dx or therapy plan.

Perna, incredible article. Thank you.

Cyran0

Is it that you don't know what the problems / symptoms are that you feel are disrupting your life, or is it that you don't know why you are having the problems / symptoms that you are having?

What and why seem to me to be two seperate questions (though often coming to a good why understanding involves redescribing the what).

Most treatments are focused on symptoms. You start out by coming up with some kind of list of what the person says is the problems / symptoms that are disrupting their life.

How does attaching a name to those help? I'm not really sure on that...

But I do, of course agree that making sense of why one is experiencing them and why they are problematic is an extremely important and worthwhile thing...

I'm just not sure how current diagnostic categories help the issue along...

It sounds like you are uncertain about how much your present treatment is really addressing / helping the symptoms that are most problematic for you. Does that sound right to you?