[purple_fins]

Wanted to share something I found, in case others might be struggling with similar....
Bessel van der Kolk... an article--"Complex Trauma in children and adolescents" within the article it says :

"Children exposed to unpredictable violence or repeated abandonment often learn to cope with threatening events and emotions by restricting their processing of what is happening around them. As a result, when they confront challenging situations, they cannot formulate a coherent, organized response. These children often have great difficulty regulating their emotions, managing stress, developing concern for others, and using language to solve problems"

the article is at: http://www.traumacenter.org/products...ild_Trauma.pdf

I've forever questioned my abilities in truly understanding a threatening event and how one "normally" reacts to it and feels about it compared to how I do-- which is usually "restricted" , confused and often clueless as to how to cope, voice and respond. I never thought(though I did question it) I was of mental developmental disabilities but I couldn't figure out why I could do geometry, get a chemistry award, be in the top ten of my class, stretch a dollar to equal five and yet have such mental deficits throughtout my WHOLE life(from infancy to today)......

Wow-- seems childhood trauma does more to the "thinking/relationship/coping" parts of the brain than I ever realized.

wonder if one, not ever getting help as a child or adolescent, as an adult -can somehow learn such things....
it's so confusing and feels so daunting....

anyway-- just thought I'd share for any others that may have struggled too all their life not understanding events/people and feeling so alone.

fins

[Elysium]

Thanks for the link.

It really does seem daunting. This is something that I am having to relearn, as an adult, and I often wonder if it's really possible.

Often times, it doesn't feel like it, but it helps to understand why we feel and behave the way we do.

[purple_fins]

and further down in the article.....:

"Complex childhood trauma is associated with both under-controlled and over-controlled behavior patterns. As early as the second year of life, abused children may demonstrate rigidly controlled behavior patterns, including compulsive compliance with adult requests, resistance to changes in routine, inflexible bathroom rituals, and rigid control of food intake."

YES! over-controlled behavior by two-- that's how I was! I compulsively complied with ALL adult requests, never spoke unless I was asked to speak and had VERY rigid control of food intake-- didn't grow, coz I didn't want to eat. Neighbors became concerned and mentioned to the mother that I was not growing and was so small. I recall being so so frightened of everyone and everything and just wanting to stay in my room.

and this here:

"When a caregiver denies the child’s experiences, the child is forced to act as if the trauma did not occur. The child also learns she cannot trust the primary caregiver and does not learn to use language to deal with adversity."

What trauma??!! and talking about it-- NOT.

[purple_fins]

Originally Posted by Elysium

Thanks for the link.

It really does seem daunting. This is something that I am having to relearn, as an adult, and I often wonder if it's really possible.

Often times, it doesn't feel like it, but it helps to understand why we feel and behave the way we do.

Yes! it does help so so much to understand why, doesn't it!
I used to hear in my head(well still do actually) -- "fins -you are so stupid, how can you not know how to deal with this?"....

I really hope it's possible to learn this all Elysium. it sure seems like a HUGE confusing mess of foreign language to me. *sigh*....

thank you for replying-- I hope you know how much better it feels to know I"m not alone in this.

peace to you

fins

[(JD)]

Not only is it possible to learn and heal, it's really your only choice. The path is difficult, but what does it matter how long and hard the road is, as long as you know you're on the right path? We either arrive at our destination healed or healing, or we arrive unhealed and infirmed from lack of trying.
That's my thinking, anyway.

[Omers]

If you are making your way through a van Der Kolk (He has a ton of great work out there if you have access to an academic library) paper you may also want to check out Lanore (sp?) Terr who does work on how trauma is processed.

Yes, these things can be learned. I have found out that the most difficult part is figuring out what I don't know. I have lived this way all my life so this is "normal" for me. I have not lived someone elses "normal" so how would I know what I was missing???? This is the current battle I am having with my T.

I have found that there is more out there for adult children of alcohoics on this than there is stuff for abuse survivors. A lot of the stuff is the same though.

[Omers]

OK, tried to resist temptaion and failed... Eliana Gill has some great stuff too and a book for SO's on how to help.
I did most of my "trauma work" reading her books over and over again.

[Tatyana2009]

what about trauma in your early 20s?

[Omers]

I didn't follow the link but given the quotes it seems as though van Der Kolk is brining together trauma research and Eriksons psychsocial development theory. Given that in our culture people are maturing more gradually than they were in the time the theory develped and the wording of your question... IMO trauma in your early twenties would impact how you percieve your self and your confidence in who you are and what your place is in the world. It would impact both where you see yourself now as well as where you see yourself in the future (although current generations do not contemplate a future to the same degree as previous generations). Feelings of being influential are at the fore front. Where you come out on this, given the trauma, will also impact the next stage as you are on the cusp of two stages. It would likely impact your social development and the close relationships you will form. Your feelings of being significant may be impacted.

Wow... Now, if that doesn't sound like a horiscope from the sunday paper I don't know what does!

But... I am not van Der Kolk... I am just a psych geek who has read far more psychology than is healthy... and should, perhaps, consider a career writing horiscopes. LOL

[Typo]

(((((((((((Fins)))))))))))))))))))))

Thank you so much for sharing this article!!! I am still reading through it but parts of it ring home so well, and answers so many questions, sometimes I find it so hard to believe one illness can affect so much of our lives, it is daunting and overwhelming, but I have belief that all of us here can heal and we have each other to support through the challenges.

I was a very withdrawn child, I was shy and timid, I didn't want to play with kids my own age, I was content living in my own world, I was terrified of people and would hide behind my parents, or hide from my parents at times for no reason. I was prone to angry outburst and fits over the smallest things or for no reason at all. My mom tells me all the time what a strange child I was and how concerned she was about my behaviors. Sometimes I wish she would have acted on those concerns, it would have saved me a lot, and protected me from the ongoing abuse. I did the strict and rigrious compliance things as well and had very strict rituals or behavior things I would do to feel safe, as well as reenactment.

Even today when I get to a certain level of feeling overwhelmed I shut down or get too confused to continue solving the problem or go on with my task, I have to step away and take a breather or I fly off into a panic attack.

I never put all of it together as a result from the PTSD

I think I will print this off and highlight the sections that hit home for me and show it to T, I think it will be a great help

[Hunny]

Thank you for this. All can say just at the moment.

[purple_fins]

Originally Posted by Omers

OK, tried to resist temptaion and failed... Eliana Gill has some great stuff too and a book for SO's on how to help.
I did most of my "trauma work" reading her books over and over again.

hmmmm never heard of Eliana Gill, thank you-- I'll have to go look her up.

[purple_fins]

Originally Posted by Tatyana2009

what about trauma in your early 20s?

Im sorry that you had any trauma at all
any can be so hard to cope with.

I think, that if one is able to go through childhood with loving, nurturing parents- then a later trauma(in ones twenties) may not have the severe personality shaping influence on one as it would for a child.
NOT meaning it hasn't done damage-- just a different kind.

If you could get help, it might make a big positive impact on your life.

I imagine the flashbacks are present,
the knee-jerk terror responses to stimuli,
the distrust in some people, or places.....
but, I don't know that it's to the degree of personality damage/debilitation that one has from repeated traumas in childhood.

it's like--
say there are two houses being built--
one has a stable rectangle foundation and then after being completed(16 year olds).. there is a tornado(trauma) the house is destroyed but there is still the foundation from which to rebuild on. (a child with a sturdy foundation has knowledge of healthy-good relationships on which to rebuild from an adult trauma--past the age of 16)....
the second house had plans to have the foundation that was a rectangle but through years of abuse and neglect, it only ever took on the shape of a triangle, with two of the "points" so hammered, they are not even points-- and yet to rebuild-- the plans call for the "healthy" rectangle shape.
How is one to get the rectangle shape when the house was never built that way in the first place???
it's like an adult trying to grasp on to a foundation that was never ever established from the beginning... it's very daunting...

I've heard people say things like-- " I want my old life back, when I wasn't fearful and I had fun" or "I used to have lots of friends now I can't leave the house"-- these comments are from people that HAD a foundation but the structure has been damaged..... they can, with much work-- rebuild that life, since it's something they have KNOWN before.....

for some of us-- it's been fear all our lives, no friends ever, no safety ever, always looking over our shoulder..... we have no foundation to rebuild from.....
it's the daunting task of trying to build a whole new foundation and structure from scratch, as an adult.
sometimes I feel kinda silly(though appreciative) as an adult, that the therapist has to explain to me what is proper relations between "friends" ... I know I'm supposed to know that, but there is so much I don't know.

I hope you had a foundation as a child to which to rebuild from Tatyana. I"m so sorry for your struggles. I am here, as is PC to support you in any way we can.

fins

[purple_fins]

Typo

sorry you can relate to all this too, but am also thankful, in that I'm not all alone.... hope that doesn't sound bad.

Even today when I get to a certain level of feeling overwhelmed I shut down or get too confused to continue solving the problem or go on with my task, I have to step away and take a breather or I fly off into a panic attack.

shutting down is VERY familiar for me too and confusion..... ugh...
while other people, in dire situations, would be running about calling police and trouble shooting-- I'm sitting there... just sitting there, numb and mind boggled.....

I hope the article helps you, if you get a chance, I'd like to know how it goes with your T.
Good luck to you

fins

[splitimage]

I remember when I was first Dx'd with C-PTSD, I really didn't agree with the DX and resisted it. I guess I was minimizig - sort of the if I think my childhood wasn't that bad, it' won't have been fantasy. But once I started reading and learning about PTSD, so much of me made sense, and I had this incredible feeling of relief that it wasn't just me that was crazy, and that there was a reason for my symptoms. I'm largely asymptomatic now thanks to treatment, but still have the occassional problem, and am glad now that I know how to handle it. Information is really empowering.

--splitimage

[pachyderm]

Even the much-maligned Freud wrote long ago about the effects of trauma by giving the analogy of an advancing army, which might suffer a series of setbacks reducing its resources, even though it was never completely defeated. Sometimes the earlier setbacks weakened it so much that when the army came to a crucial battle (adulthood), it might not be able to overcome the final challenge, and was defeated.

[REEG]

Thanks for the post It does help to get a framework for the past trauma. My T has been framing what I often think of as deficits as ways that key difficulties are solved.

Ex- dissociatve expeiences show resillience and are an effort to cope with trauma. I recently recalled the song "Where you Are" from the musical the Kiss of the Spider Woman. I was lucky enough to see Chita Rivera perform this on boadway on a college trip.

Heres a you tube clip if you are interested:

[Elana05]

Hi REEG,

I have never seen the musical but I LOVED this movie. I will check it out, thanks.

Thanks for posting, fins. I am only now (in my 30s) understanding the trauma of my youth (ie. what trauma?) I struggle with not knowing when I am over-reacting to a situation as well as hypervigilance and having a hard time trusting most people. I am sad to say I still can't sleep (in the same bed) with my partner. I think this is due to serious hypervigilance problems and not being able to "shut off" when someone else is present. Will lay awake until 4 am. Have to sleep totally removed in a room with the door shut. I totally hope to overcome this. I hate how deep down and subconscious it is. Thinking of EMDR...

[shezbut]

Interesting post and responses, purplefins!

Recently, my T said that I seem to be stuck in one of those levels of development...the one where you gain your own sense of self, fighting against parental expectations. I still have to get through that phase, beforemoving forward.

[E1234567]

Thanks for the article. I cry too easily, and always have. I knew that it was from stuff that I went through as a child, but I thought it was more behaviorally ingrained into me rather than physiologically messed up as brain development. No wonder no matter what I do, I can't fix it.

At least I don't feel like as much of a failure now. Trying to train myself not to cry is about as useful as trying to fly by flapping my arms really hard.

[Can't Stop Crying]

[for some of us-- it's been fear all our lives, no friends ever, no safety ever, always looking over our shoulder..... we have no foundation to rebuild from.....
it's the daunting task of trying to build a whole new foundation and structure from scratch, as an adult.]

This is exactly what I've been trying to explain to my T. I have nothing to go back to, no "normal" to base what I should be like on. The abuse started with my earliest memories - I don't know what I was before the abuse. If I knew who I was before the abuse, maybe I could define myself now with characteristics from then.

[purple_fins]

This is exactly what I've been trying to explain to my T. I have nothing to go back to, no "normal" to base what I should be like on. The abuse started with my earliest memories

You DO understand.......
I'm sorry you had such experiences
that have you in a similar place as myself.

for some of us there is no going "back" to a healthy functional state-- there never was such a state............

it's like being told to read when you never were taught what letters are......
maybe some need the VERY basics, even if they are full grown adults.

best to you and all here

fins

[notablackbarbie]

thanx for these links purple_fins... So, with my past, is theres any hope if im lacking in so much? Or am i just forever inadequate now...like short of a time machine to change the past, how does healing occur to be/do better? How does consistent T actually help? What is one supposed to be and do if not just a bad child, or pathetic victim? Seriously, i ask = is it possible to be worthwhile at all despite all that happened before, and how screwed up i am?

[purple_fins]

sorry notablackbarbie,
I surely don't wish for you to feel defeated.

I think there is HOPE!
Having a consistent T. is a very good beginning-IMO. And then learing some basics-- like, how to express oneself in a helpful communicative manner, how to cope when one feels the anxiety rise so high, how to set boundaries and keep them healthy... just to name a few.

I have never looked at myself as a "victim"-- I struggle with that word. think I cringe at the vulnerabilty of it... ... instead-- I was a person that was born into a collection of unfortunate, traumatic, abusive circumstances which were NOT of my doing.

anyway-- I've not an education in the psych field-- but I do believe, even without scholar knowledge, that we can mend and live a life that we can be comfortable with. (I'm so hoping this!)
I think it takes learning and understanding our triggers, our strengths, our weaknesses and how to push ourselves but NOT push too hard so that all the forward motion is in vain. It's not easy, for sure-- but-- I try not look at it that way-- just leaves room for self deprication and pity. I rather be thankful that I am able to at least try.

I wish that you will have hope... it's so important.
Please don't give up hope.

fins

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by notablackbarbie

Seriously, i ask = is it possible to be worthwhile at all despite all that happened before, and how screwed up i am?

I think people naturally try to grow towards health, regardless of what has happened in the past. So yes, it is possible!