Im sick of people telling me to get over it , its was four years ago .

To be honest I don't have an official diagnoses because I've never been able to afford a psychiatrist. But I had my suspicions confirmed by a therapist though I'd say I probably knew I had PTSD even before that.

Depression, Anxiety, MMD, BPD, PTSD............

~HUMANISM~

(((Hellion))),

I am sorry, I think you are being triggered and confused here. However, I will tell you that it isn't good to drink alcohol when you have PTSD.

I think that you were brought up around people who ARE alcoholics and these people, even if they don't drink every day, when they do drink they don't stop until they are completely wasted. To be honest, I can see you don't like that, but you have learned to use SOME alcohol to help you calm down "some". But, you do not like to use alcohol until you are completely wasted. But you do have to be careful as with any drug, the brain often responds less and less so what eventually happens is that you will need more and more to get that sense of calm you want/desire. There ARE people who would not normally become people with drinking problems but end up with problems because they do not realize what I have just stated.

What I have found triggering in Woman Healing's statements is that I NEVER HAD ANY DESIRE TO DRINK HEAVILY AND DRUG and I WAS NOT THE NORM AROUND MY HUSBAND AND HIS FRIENDS. I was often "PICKED ON" because I didn't want to "get ripped" LIKE THEY DID, AND I did not want to do drugs, like smoke pot, or snort cocaine or take other drugs that so many others (at my time of going through my teens and 20's) wanted to engage in. THEN AFTER ALL THAT I WAS STUCK GOING TO THESE ROOMS AND LISTENING TO PEOPLE TALK ABOUT HOW THE "HAD" TO DO THIS AND QUITE FRANKLY, I GOT TIRED OF HEARING ABOUT ALL THEIR STORIES ABOUT LOSING THEIR WIVES, HOMES, AND HOW THEIR FAMILIES SUFFERED. It was hard for me to listen because I WAS ON THE RECEIVING END AND IN PAIN.

For someone to even remotely suggest that I TOO WAS SOMEHOW AN ALCOHOLIC TOO? Well, that is just plain CRUEL. That is like telling someone that was sexually abused that THEY LIKED IT AND ARE AN ABUSER TOO.

Open Eyes

Oh, why don't you just put a big X on the diagnostic manual and just tell everyone that AA is their answer. Because YOU know BETTER.

Open Eyes

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woman_Healing One thing I have to remember is no one puts a gun to my head to choose or stay in a relationship with a sick person. I have no one to blame and there are no victims. That is growing up. See, the Solution releases all anger because I can see my part.

Your post is rather disturbing and rather unhelpful in this area. If you do not believe in PTSD it only begs the question, why are you in the PTSD forum? Ask my brother, who toured Iraq, got hit by an IED and now has UNCONTROLLABLE BLACKOUTS where he goes into a rage thinking he is still in Iraq defending himself (mind you these blackouts are completely unrelated to any substance) and try telling him that PTSD is unreal.

There are victims, you can not tell me that a child who is 6 years old who suffers at the hand of an adult or another child had any say in what was happening to them. You can not tell me that a woman who is walking down the street and gets attacked by someone else, that it was in any way her fault. This is close minded thinking. This is very unhealthy thinking and should stay off of the PTSD thread, it will only cause more harm than good.

I am sorry to add in this comment a little late but I did not see this and when I did, it really is very unhealthy to post things such as this in this forum. Until you have experienced and been through what someone else with PTSD has been through, you have no accurate response and absolutely no right to make those accusations.

Millions of people suffer from PTSD and millions who suffer do not drink. Not to mention I myself was a heavy drinker in high school. Almost every night as an escape. Yet now, I DO drink when I want to, when I am going out on the town with friends, but no I do not black out get wasted or anything I can easily control it and I rarely ever do it to begin with. Call me an alcoholic, I call myself human. No urge to get plastered and stagger into the back of a taxi cab. No urge to drink when I am feeling terrible at all in fact, I only like to drink when I am going out to have fun. And even then often I do not drink. Am I an alcoholic? No.

AA is great for people who need it, so let's stick to pushing AA in the "addictions" forum and not ruling out PTSD and trying to force AA

I know drinking isn't a great thing to do and the negative effects it can have and I understand the whole building tolerance thing I've looked into it on my own and while I was still in college I was taking psychology and discussed tolerance which is why moderation is a good thing in my opinion...the less one drinks the less tolerance there is at least for me.

It is true sometimes I use alcohol to calm myself but honestly I prefer cannabis as it doesn't make me nauseous or give me hangovers and is not quite as hard on my body...But I am not here to defend any of that. I do however educate myself on risks and am as careful as possible with such things. I realize when I am getting more tolerant to alcohol and need to cut back. So you're certainly right about needing to be careful. But yeah right now I am thinking of quitting cigarettes and cutting down even more on alcohol because I can and I don't have an income right now so I can't really afford to drink as much as I'd like so I wont.

((Hellion))),

Ok, I have heard the word cannabis before but I don't know what it is and ofcourse have never tried it, is it a drug or a herb? It is not another word for marijuana is it?

Anyway, I hope you eventually get a chance to find your way to getting the right diagnosis. Ofcourse I am not a therapist so I cannot diagnose you, but I will still support you just the same.

I am sorry that you now have a bad taste when it comes to AA or ALCOA because they do have some very helpful coping methods and good ways to look at life and ourselves in a healthier more accepting way. I just asked my husband about the comments that were made here as he has been active in AA for over 20 years and he said there is no such talk about everyone being alcoholics or that there is no such thing as PTSD as is being said here. He heads a meeting every Monday night as well as attends other meetings and these comments are not made anywhere he has been involved and he said this woman is "not doing the program justice by these statements".

Just so you know, I personally never got these kinds of statements presented to me when I went and I found everyone very accepting and friendly and non judgemental.
And in my time here at PC alone I have suggested some members attend these meetings and I always got thank you's and positive feed back. So I just don't want you to judge these programs by this one person's statements in YOUR thread.

(((Hugs)))
Open Eyes

Yes it would be marijuana, just a more technical name, but yeah I guess you're right I can't negatively judge a whole group/program on one comment. I guess another issue is isn't AA more for people wanting to quit? I mean I respect that, but I am not at such a point so I don't know that I'd be very helpful for people trying to stop drinking...or people who have stopped and are trying not to relapse into alcoholism.

It's also not my thread...I just saw the title and could relate to that, since my moms boyfriend a while back told me 'you weren't even in the room' ...but I was there for the lockdown and knew there was someone running around with a gun in the school so what if I did not see anyone get shot no one did since everyone had been evacuated and she happened to be the last one and well, she didn't make it.

(((Hellion))),
Thats ok, I related to it myself.

Ok, well, I will give my my thoughts on the Marijuana. You have to know that that too is not a good drug for your brain and it actually slows down the brain's ability to learn and it can, if continuously used lead to schitizophrenia.

What you choose to do ofcourse is up to you, but I really think you want to make a postive change for the better and get your life together Hellion. I think that you are at a point where you need some time to really work on YOU so you can move on with your life. And, there is nothing wrong with that, and from the things you are discribing that include parents that struggle with alcoholism, well, that too is not productive or helpful and is even distructive to any child who needs to form good life skills. And MOST, IF NOT ALL parents who are alcoholics are nothing but large children that never really grew up and that is what you are finding upsetting as you watch them soak their brains so they don't have to think and deal with life.

Sigh...My father was a binge alcoholic and I grew up thinking that drinking on the weekends or after work beginning Friday nights and getting so drunk he would just pass out on the sofa with the TV going was NORMAL. I thought all men did that to be honest. And my father was and is intelligent and during the week when he wasn't drinking, he worked hard and did well. But now that I look back, there was always disfunction in my family. But what did I know, I didn't know, no child really knows what that means.

Well my husband too was a binge alcoholic and I went for a while dealing with him sometimes not even coming home and me not even knowing where he was. And he was verbally abusive when he drank and whenever I talked about him drinking he told me it was MY PROBLEM and that I NEEDED TO GET HELP. Wow, for while I thought it was me, because after all my dad did it too and my idea of an alcoholic was someone who drank constantly, was a bumb and concealed it in a paper bag in some allyway.

Well finally one of my friends was getting a divorce because her husband was an alcoholic and she just could not take it anymore. It was this friend that said to me, "IF YOU HAVE TO DISCUSS OR FIGHT OVER HIS DRINKING EVEN ONCE A MONTH, HE HAS A PROBLEM" and she took me to my first Alanon meeting. And I will never forget the faces of the women and men in that room. All thier faces were old and tired and very unhappy and they told me to run for my life. But I loved my husband and he was a good man but he had a bad problem. So I went home and gave him an ultimatum and I meant it and that night he went to his first AA meeting and has not had a drink since. But that was not the end of my problems with alcoholism, NO, for a while I had what they call a dry drunk and I HAD TO BE PATIENT WHILE "HE" worked on "HIS" problem. So again I was alone and raising our daughter feeling much like I was a single parent. My husband was at work or at meetings so he was hardly ever home.
And that one message I kept getting is THAT THIS HAD TO BE ALL ABOUT HIM AND HIS RECOVERY.

Well, then after a while he could stay with our daughter and I could go to an Alanon meeting. And when I went to those meetings pretty much everyone there was dealing with a teen that was an alcoholic/drug addict. And then I realized what VERY WELL MAY HAPPEN TO ME NEXT. I realized that my daughter could also be a problem and SHE WAS ALL HER FATHER RIGHT DOWN TO HIS DISLEXIA.

And, I made the mistake of telling my brownie troup coleader and thought to be friend about my husband. That was a big mistake because she told all the mothers of the girls/friends of my daughter too in my Brownie Troop and they all pulled their girls out of my troop including the so called friend and I was left with no troop and having to explain to my daughter WHY SHE JUST LOST ALL HER FRIENDS.

I HAD NO FRIENDS TO HELP ME AND MY DAUGHTER HAD NO FRIENDS EITHER!!! And I went and sat outside a church alot, parked my car in front of the big cross on the side of the church and cried and prayed for help. And going to the alanon meetings were not a big help to me back then. We had a little red book and would read messages and talk about each message. So basically we were all praying. And I appreciated the prayers but that was NOT solving my problems.

I began my own business with my daughter's pony and built it up and got another pony and built it up and finally got a home on some overgrown land and all winter long when my business season was not there I clipped and clipped away so much brush and prickers so I could slowly clear and work on establishing my own little farm. And my daugter finally got a few friend because, we were more inviting with a pony little girls could ride.

One day my daughter was playing in her room with a little friend and I could hear them talking. The little girl told my daughter that she could come here and ride and play but she could not be friends with her in school as the daughter of that so called co leader would be mean to her if she saw she was friends with my daughter. And I heard my daughter say "Thats ok, I wont mind we will just be secret friends". It just broke my heart. And that is the way it was on the bus too, my daughter sat alone and there were some mean girls that picked on her that were older and also friends with this girl who's mother USED TO BE WHAT I THOUGHT WAS A FRIEND.

Well, I could actually write a novel here, but I have long story about what alcoholism does to families and mine was no exception. But when it got to one of the steps where my husband had to say his wrongs, well, that is when my daughter was 13 and the wrong my husband had done was cheat on me with two women that were real tramps. And he didn't wear any protection either. Well at that time I was having problems with myself and my periods and I thought he may have given me an STD. I was separated for a few months from my husband and had to run the farm on my own. And also try to hide how upset I was from my daughter. I tried to go see a GYNO and when it came time to be examined, I was so upset the doctor could not even come near me and I left her office in tears and shame and complete embarassment.

After a while per my daughters request for her mommy to fix her family, I got back with my husband and did some marriage counseling where the councelor told me my husband had the maturity level of a 13 year old and he was going to press all my buttons to mother him and I had to learn how to try not to do that. And he did constantly test me too. So basically I was stuck with two children and VERY LONELY.
And I kept building my small business.

Yes, I was triggered by what was said here to be honest. Someone saying that I TOO AM AN ALCOHOLIC is HURTFUL TO ME because I RARELY DRINK and do not do drugs.
And then YES AFTER SO MANY YEARS AND A TRAMATIC EVENT THAT DAMAGED THIS BUSINESS I SPENT YEARS BUILDING, I BROKE AND AM BATTLING PTSD. I know all about BULLYING, ALL KINDS OF BULLYING TOO. And to hear someone say WHAT I HAVE BEEN BATTLING, THIS PTSD. ISN'T REAL? Yes that triggered me too.

(((Hellion))) alcohol and marajuana do not solve or treat PTSD or the problems you have from being around ALCOHOLICS as role models. Can ALCOA help you with some of that? Yes, and this is the first time I have come across someone like this. Most of the people that were there for me WERE NEVER JUDGEMENTAL AND WERE VERY SUPPORTIVE. So again I am saying to give that a chance, but if you are not ready for that, I can understand that too.

If you have PTSD you deserve the help you need to deal with it. And as I mentioned, you can NOT wash it away with alcohol or marajuana. And it doesn't mean you are an alcoholic you have just been exposed to people that have chosen that path, and I don't think you want that path for yourself. YOU DO DESEVE BETTER!

Open Eyes

(((acrosstheborderline))),

I just want to say, wow your thread took quite a life of it's own here. But I will tell you that YES MANY PEOPLE HAVE TOLD ME THINGS LIKE THAT AS WELL. You are not alone in stuggling to get over things. And with PTSD, it takes longer to learn HOW to get over things. What I just talked about in my last post, I have been told many times, WELL SO YOUR HUSBAND WAS AN ALCOHOLIC, just get over it. Hmmm, I am trying but it hasn't been easy, and yes it contributed to my PTSD problems.

Well at least you know it is not just you. Geez, I often go to my statistics as if I respond to someone I can keep track. Ugh, I have talked to Hellion in other threads so I lost track. Sorry about that, but a least you can see how others relate.

Open Eyes

-I have looked up what effects marijuana has, and possible long term risks...so I am aware of them. As for schizophrenia, I actually have an aunt who swears by cannabis I never knew she had such a disorder because she's very functional and kind of a do it herself type girl. But she says its the cannabis that helps her...otherwise she has to be on 3 pills that have more disabling side effects. I mean that is just what I've observed with her. I do know of the fact cannabis can increase the risk of schizophrenia in some though I mean even in psychology class the professor was very clear it could 'contribute' to schizophrenia but not cause it on it's own. I am not denying the risks though.

-I am aware it does not solve my problems...its just a matter of reducing the pain I am in, which for now I don't really have something better. Also alcohol in my opinion is more damaging as it actually kills brain cells and the liver...so when it comes to thinking of quitting anything I imagine cigarettes and alcohol would be first to go.

-I wont totally close my mind to those meetings...I just don't feel ready for such a thing and I don't know that will change. Out of curiosity though if one did go and was still at the time using alcohol or anything else how is that usually treated?

Well, there are those who go while under the infleunce but the main goal is to learn how to deal with life in a much better way and not have to use alcohol. It is not good at all to go to a meeting after drinking or getting high. You should make sure you are sober.

I really think it would be a help as I mentioned, you can even go to an Alcoa meeting because you WERE involved with parents and other family members that have alcohol/drug problems.

Hellion, I understand that your AUNT may seem to be doing better or managing with the use of marajuana. But in all honestly? I sounds more and more like the majority of the family around you have turned to alcohol and drugs to resolve their problems. You are showing interest in taking a better road, and you have to desire that to have the programs both AA and Alcoa work for you, and LET ME TELL YOU THEY DO REALLY HELP. As I mentioned, that program did save my marriage. I would have divorced my husband if he didn't stop and work on getting better and staying Sober. And as far as my daughter was concerned, I was right, she was her father's daughter. Only what I did was keep her involved with horses and riding and that became a productive natual high for her. I really worked very hard to keep her involved with that and it really helped her keep on a postive productive track. She went to college graduated and has a good job and continues to ride as well and she is now 28. But she does have the same type of whatever it is that predesposes someone to become an alcoholic.

I noticed with both her and her father, whatever they do, they have to do it to the umpth degree. So, in other words, it if is a bottle of booze, they have to drink it all, if it is learning something, they have to do that to the end, full, consuming. And that is also what helps with the program, as they have to completely submit to that as well. Whatever it is about that type of brain, it has to be totally consuming.

What I feel about you is that you don't have to do it that way, you just take a little to DEAL. So I wonder if you should look into both programs, because I think that YOU WANT TO BE BETTER AND NOT LIKE THEM (your family). I get the strong feeling that you really want to do right as I said but you lacked someone to show you how. I think that if you found that YOU WOULD DO REALLY WELL. There are really GREAT mentors in those programs that could really help you alot. That is what you need is a strong mentor (parent replacement) that can show you what you are looking for, the right path.

If you want to talk to someone that knows a lot about it and a really NICE person, there is a member here called madisgram who I am sure you will really like. She helped me alot when I first came to PC.

Open Eyes

-Alright, if I did go to any meetings I'd certainly not get high or drunk first, I mean I respect time and place and to me that would not be the time or place but for now I am going to focus on trying to get a mental health appointment somewhere...I'll consider the other though.

-This aunt of mine actually is not typical of my more irresponsible family, she's mostly moved on and is living a very satisfying life for the most part..but I see your point as well.

-Also wanting to be 'better' then everyone in my family is not quite what i have in mind, but there are some things I would prefer not to fall into so maybe Id more say I want to make some better life choices then some of them. But yeah I don't dislike my whole family or want to cut them all out of my life but yeah sometimes less of them is nice. But yeah my siblings and one of my cousins are pretty close and we're doing the best we can with what we've been given none of us are perfect either though.

I have to say honestly though right now I don't really plan on quitting. I am however working on cutting down more on drinking and cigarettes but not so much the cannabis, not sure if I will change my mind about cannabis but I'll certainly consider the points you've made. I just want to be honest so sorry if I seem stubborn or anything but at this point that is how I'm feeling...I really do appreciate you taking the time to talk to me though.

You are welcome, you have to take one thing at a time. But don't forget to look up madisgram, she is such a peach and can be very helpful to you and also make you way more comfortable about checking out these helpful programs.
I also like that you are being honest, that is such a good start.
(((Hugs)))

Open Eyes

I was really triggered in this thread, and I always tell others that when that happens it means something and it is important to see if you can figure it out, as it is part of what lead to PTSD.

And actually, the title of this thread is also appropriate as well, because this very sentence is said to me all the time as well. And yet I have never been able to "Just get over it" in my life.

Well, Woman Healing DID TRIGGER ME, but she ALSO DID ME A "FAVOR". And I am going to definitely discuss this with my T tomarrow because so much about me will make sense to him.

I went and left a message with Woman Healing and I am going to post it here. It suddenly occured to me as I was out feeding my horses that SHE IS NOT GOING TO GET WHAT I AM SAYING. And that is also WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO ME MANY TIMES OVER AND OVER "ALL" MY LIFE. I don't know what it is that is in the brains of these people but it is hereditary and they actually do not realize how crippling it is to those who are around them THAT DO NOT HAVE IT and YET ARE VICTIMS OF THE BEHAVIOR PATTERNS IT PRESENTS.

I know this is something in the brain, some kind of disorder that is much like OCD. When my daughter was 3 she presented it to me. She was just quietly sitting at a little table painting while I was painting and restoring some old ship models for our restaurant. And out of the blue my daughter got very upset and lost complete control. There was NO reason for her to do this and I had never seen it before either.
My daughter was trying to paint a giraffe and she could not do it and she had a real meltdown. This is NOT NORMAL BEHAVIOR, yes children do get upset and frustrated, BUT NOT LIKE THIS. And it took me a while to address this with her and I HAD TO WORK ON THAT ALL HER LIFE. And she is every bit her father WHO ALSO HAS THIS OCD type behavior as well and has been in AA for over 20 years. I don't know what this is, but it starts long before alcoholism.

Here is my message to Woman Healing that she will NOT GET. And I know this BECAUSE THIS IS WHAT MY HUSBAND AND DAUGHTER DON'T GET EITHER. And it has crippled me all my life. And my message is how it crippled me in my life in many ways.

"Woman_Healing, I am glad that you found AA to be very helpful to "YOU" so you can lead a better life. It IS a very helpful program and as I mentioned in my posts saved my marriage. But if you look back on the response to your posts from Hellion, you actually pushed her away from exploring/visiting the rooms that could be VERY helpful to her. HMMM, WHY? Because how you presented AA, Alanon was JUDGEMENTAL and that NEVER encourages ANYONE to reach out or STAY involved with these programs.

You cannot go around telling people that there is no such thing as PTSD or other disorders either. Actually that is not even permitted on this site and NOT SOMETHING THEY PROMOTE IN ANY WAY IN THE AA PROGRAMS.

Also saying that Alanoners are also alcoholics is WAY OUT OF LINE. And that statement is YOUR blind opinion and not what is discussed or believed in the program either.

AA is designed for "SELF" empowerment, "NOT" empowerment over others. You are missing the point of AA and you need to pay attention and "ADMIT" that so you can be more inviting when encouraging others to join in and feel welcome in the AA/ALANON rooms.

How you interacted with me was VERY TRIGGERING to me as in my 32 years of marriage and raising a child who has the same whatever it is in the brain that lends to this "ALL CONTROLING" thinking was a constant challenge to me. Quite frankly, it had worn me down because it was a constant in my life from father to husband to neighbor (mean drunk) who thinks HE should be able to allow HIS dogs to go where ever HE decides. As well as HE should be able to shoot off fireworks right next to my horses because HE wants to. And HE should only pay for the damages as HE sees fit and not for DESTROYING "YEARS AND YEARS" OF MY HARD WORK. And just so you know, my father thought HE was the allknowing too and HE RULED OUR HOME AND HE PUNISHED MY BROTHER BY TAKING HIM OUT TO A SHED AND USING HIS BELT TO PUNISH MY BROTHER FOR SOMETHING HE COULD NOT HELP, WHICH I BELIEVE WAS AUTISM/ADHD. And I suffered my whole childhood from an older brother who molested and hurt me because he did not know where to put his anger from being beaten for something he could not help. Every sentence I uttered was not good enough for DAD, he had to correct me everytime I tried to talk to him because HE wanted me to talk HIS way. I developed a tick in my brain that made if very hard from me to take a word from my brain and be able to speak it. It took me YEARS to overcome that problem and sometimes it still happens if I am very stressed. I can remember my brother's room and how he URINATED all over his bed, the floors and the walls AND THE ANSWER WAS ALWAYS THE SHED and then I HAD TO BE AFRAID OF MY BROTHERS ANGER AND FRUSTRATION as he came after me to either hurt me or molest me.

My farm was so important to me, my working with children, so important and it was so positive, something to utilize that could show my husband and daughter how instead of drinking alcohol, one could gain pleasure and a natural high by being productive and I DID THAT WITH my horses and ponies. It helped my family BE A HEALTHY FAMILY. It was destroyed!!!!
And that presented me with this crippling PTSD where I began to relive my childhood in a way I could have never imagined. I could never have imagined my brain could do this and that I would relive terrible things that go all the way back to a baby girl who was so defenseless.

So YOU deciding that YOU know that there is no such thing as PTSD is directly connected to the POISENOUS SELFISH THINKING OF SOMEONE WHO IS STILL THINKING LIKE AN ALCHOLIC.

I was taken to a psychward in shock after constantly addressing death and perminent damage to many of my animals that I loved and spent years training. Yes I broke!!!!!! And I was SO bad with PTSD that I could barely function and was often very suicidal. But MY HUSBAND THOUGHT HE SHOULD BE ABLE TO KEEP HIS LOADED GUN IN THE NIGHT STAND NEXT TO OUR BED. And inspite of all his years in AA, HE decided that HE didn't think or want to understand how much "I" was struggling. But now that I think about it, it was always like that the AA only took some of it away, but not all of it.

One day I was so bad that I really wanted to END because I was so completely exhausted from the MENTALITY OF THE ALCOHOLIC MIND.
I sat on my bed with this loaded gun in my hand and it really took all my strength to NOT take my own life. I managed to get to my therapist and tell him that I was dangerously close to giving up. My therapist called in my husband and had to set him straight and make him understand THAT PTSD IS VERY "REAL" and that I was in serious condition, and I really was!!!!! And my therapist is VERY AWARE OF THE PROGRAM AS WELL AS THE ALCOHOLIC MINDSET as he has worked with several alcoholics over the YEARS of his practice.

The worst thing you can do is tell anyone suffering from PTSD that this disorder doesn't exist. And this IS A WELL KNOWN FACT AS THERE ARE THOSE THAT DID TAKE THEIR LIVES BECAUSE OF THAT IGNORNANT ATTITUDE about PTSD. There is a definite PATHOLOGY that takes place in the brain when someone is suffering from PTSD. And some people are very crippled by it, some have more damage than others and it takes a lot of time and patience to understand and heal from PTSD. Most people who struggle with PTSD are very alone, denied, misunderstood, and alienated for something they truely cannot help. In my opinion the worst that can happen to someone who struggles with PTSD is to also be surrounded by PEOPLE WHO ARE ALCOHOLICS AND THINK "THEY" HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS. I almost took my own life because of that. So don't tell me that "I TOO HAVE THE MIND OF AN ALCOHOLIC" because "YOU ARE VERY WRONG".

You are definitely missing the point of the AA program. The program is to work on "self empowerment over the disease" it not about POWER OVER OTHERS and IT IS NOT ABOUT SAYING THAT BECAUSE YOU SUFFER FROM THE DISEASE OF ALCOHOLISM THEN SO DOES EVERYONE ELSE.

My neighbor was a known mean DRUNK and he finally stopped drinking but he never went to AA.

These people are often nice people, but they are VERY CONTROLING AND DEMANDING and SEEM TO NEED TO DO THINGS TO THE UMPTH DEGREE.
And what was said by Woman Healing is what I have been addressing that others do not see as often these people are NICE people who seem HARMLESS.

In a way it is like a kind of Narcissim, but they do have some empathy where Narcisists don't.

I pray they find out what this is because IT HAS CRIPPLED ME ALL MY LIFE because I WAS VICTIMIZED BY IT over and over.

I tried very hard to help my daughter avoid the path of becoming and alcoholic.
My years spent keeping her involved with horses was all about helping her find a natural high. While it did work in many ways, it never cured whatever it is that these people have that compells them to OBCESS ABOUT SOMETHING TO THE UMPTH DEGREE. My daughter became addicted to horses and riding and showing and competing and learning and she is still doing it to the umpth degree as much as she can. But when my years of work was destroyed by my neighbor's dog including her horse that gave her that outlet that is needed to satisfy whatever this is? She BEGAN TO TURN TO ALCOHOL and her whole focus WAS TRYING TO REPLACE HER HORSE THAT WAS SO DAMAGED.

I became more and more aware that I COULD NOT FIX THIS. And SHE GOT ANGRY AT ME BECAUSE I COULD NOT FIX IT FOR HER. I worked so hard at trying to give her a positive way to deal with this need. It kept her away from going down the drug/alcohol path. I was determined not to be one of those parents that I saw in the Alanon rooms, they were such a sad sight and totally worn out. I got my daughter through school and even college and that horse did too. SHE WAS SO HAPPY THAT SPRING BECAUSE "FINALLY" SHE HAD A GOOD JOB AND ALL HER WORK IN HER HORSE WAS GOOD AND HE WAS WINNING AND FINALLY SHE COULD SHOW HIM IN THE BIG SHOWS. It just got ripped away and years of my hard work was so badly damaged and I SAW HER ANSWER as she obcessively search the net looking for what was lost and I KNEW IT WOULD NOT BE THERE.

When she stood in front of me last Friday talking about EMOTIONAL ABUSE and she was angry at ME? She talked about my moods and me being unpredictable.
But IT ALWAYS TOOK SO MUCH OUT OF ME TO KEEP HER ON THAT PATH, I DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW I DID IT ALONG WITH DEALING WITH MY ALCOHOLIC HUSBAND TOO. What happened to me in this thread, what was said by this woman healing? THAT IS MY LIFE WITH THIS KIND OF MENTALITY, they have to obcess and control whatever they do. And along with keeping up with this type of mentality in my life, I had some real difficult health issues as well. And whenever I was very ill and could not stay with the demands of this mentality, they were always angry about it. Yes, they managed to keep my system going, but it was always clear that I had to get right back to whatever role I had to service their needs somehow. Honestly?, these people are SO HIGH MAINTENANCE in SO MANY WAYS.

When I broke, I really broke and WHAT I HAD BUILT UP TO CONTROL THIS MENATALITY , TO DIRECT IT IN A POSITIVE WAY WAS JUST SO DESTROYED.
When I got out of the psychward and my husband picked me up? The ride home made it very clear to me that somehow I had to put my own needs away and go back to TRYING TO FIX ALL THAT HAD BEEN BROKEN. My husband WAS SO ANGRY AT ME FOR BREAKING AND IT WAS SO OBVIOUS ON THAT RIDE HOME AND BOTH OF THEM IN ALL THEIR MANNERISMS MADE IT CLEAR THAT SOMEHOW I HAD TO FIND A WAY TO RESTORE WHAT "THEY NEEDED".

What I am discribing here IS NOT MY IMAGINATION, IT IS VERY REAL!!! I pray to god that they find out what this is, BECAUSE IT IS LITERALLY TAKING THE LIFE OUT OF ME. Whatever this is, does not start with alcohol, it is there already, that much I know.

I love my daughter with all my heart, and I spent her life trying to help her put whatever this is into a positive outlet. And it is not like they are BAD PEOPLE EITHER. They are just SO HIGH MAINTAINANCE and they don't even SEE IT. And they are very intelligent in their own way as well. And they often work VERY HARD and they do WANT TO PLEASE SO MUCH TOO.

Quote from Woman Healing :
Depression, Anxiety, MMD, BPD, PTSD............

~HUMANISM~

This is what got me too!

And here are her other quotes:
Hey - you Alanoners can make us damned thirsty sometimes...everyone has defects of character....just sayin'...

There is no such thing as PTSD. Everyone has various levels of trauma, and I've had such horrific longterm trauma, some people drink over it some don't. But the 12 step process WHEN WORKED CORRECTLY untangled all that and man is it good.

HERE AGAIN, IT IS ALWAYS WHAT "THEY" THINK. And they can be very convincing, they are not stupid. Things can be untangled for them as long as it is TOTAL CONTROL. They have to see things "their way".

Example: My father could NOT JUST LET ME TALK WHEN I WAS GROWING UP. I HAD TO TALK "HIS" WAY. I know he meant well, BUT DAM, HE WOULD NOT LET ME FINISH A SENTENCE SO IT STOPPED ME FROM BEING ABLE TO FINISH A SENTENCE ON MY OWN.

Another Example: When I go out with my husband and we do jobs together? I drive and HE HAS TO TELL ME EVERY TURN, ANNOUNCE EVERY STOP LIGHT it is as though HE HAS TO THINK FOR ME AND IT IS CRIPPLING.

Another Example: I could be out doing chores around my farm, MY HUSBAND COMES HOME AND HAS TO KNOW WHERE I AM IMMEDIATELY AND KNOW WHAT I AM DOING IMMEDIATELY. When we are with each other MY HUSBAND WATCHES EVERYTHING I DO and when I point it out HE ALWAYS HAS AN ANSWER THAT DISREGARDS WHAT I AM TRYING TO TELL HIM.

Another Example: Whenever ANYONE talks to my father? HE HAS TO CONTROL THE CONVERSATION AND IS SO WELL STUDIED THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN TELL HIM OR SAY THAT HE WILL NOT CORRECT YOU ON OR THAT HE SEEMS TO KNOW ALREADY OR KNOWS MORE THAN YOU OR ANYONE ELSE. MY FATHER OFTEN STRUGGLES TO HAVE NORMAL CONVERSATIONS. HOW YOU TALK TO MY FATHER IS YOU ASK HIM ABOUT HIM OR SOMETHING HE KNOWS AND HE WILL GO ON AND ON. THE ONLY OTHER WAY HE TALKS IS TO LECTURE OR CRITQUE YOU.

Another Example: My father "Just like my husband" watches everything my mother does and critques her constantly. My mother cannot even load the diswasher as my father HAS TO RELOAD IT UNTIL IT IS LOADED THE WAY "HE" THINKS IT SHOULD BE LOADED. My mother sits at the table with my father for dinner, AND HE NEVER TALKS unless he has something to critisize her about.

Another Example: If you don't do it THEIR WAY and you want to do things YOUR WAY, they accuse you of ALWAYS HAVING TO DO THINGS YOUR WAY.

Another Example: When I was experiencing the second phase of PTSD, depression and apathy?, My daughter started REORGANIZING MY HOUSE, ALL MY CABINETS, MY BARN, "HER WAY". I began to feel more and more lost BECAUSE IT GOT SO I COULD NOT FIND ANYTHING. My HUSBAND DOES THAT AS WELL and after he has straightened up my barn, I GET UPSET BECAUSE I CAN'T FIND ANYTHING. And he is always behind me PICKING UP and I can turn around to grab my coffee AND HE TOOK MY 1/2 FULL CUP AND RINSED IT OUT AND PUT IT IN THE DISHWASHER. Meanwhile, I am wandering around frantic not remembering where I put down my cup of coffee because it is not where I thought I set it down.

This is my LIFE with this kind of whatever it is. And they are nice people, they try hard and THINK THEY ARE HELPING TOO. But they ARE OBSESSIVE IN SO MANY WAYS and they just don't see it.

And my neighbor? Oh, I put up a no trespassing sign ON MY PROPERTY, he doesn't like it so HE TEARS IT DOWN. I am building a stone wall to block a broken bridge in case a horse gets loose so they don't try to cross it, HE PULLS IT APART BECAUSE "HE" DOESN'T LIKE IT, AND IT IS ON MY PROPERTY. I HAVE THIS ON FILE WITH THE POLICE BECAUSE I CALLED THEM. He thinks that because he has a right a way through my property, that his daughters can walk their dogs in MY front field to poop and when I tell him not to do that, HE DOESN'T LIKE IT and all the while he has more land than me, but he WANTS WHAT "HE" WANTS. And when he drank HE GOT MEAN so he stopped drinking BUT "HE" still WANTS CONTROL and HE DOESN'T CARE THAT MY LAND IS MY LAND.

Oh, another example Woman Healing somewhere in this thread says that she thinks ALANON PEOPLE ARE ALSO ALCOHOLICS, this is the WAY THEY THINK, this is ALL ABOUT "THEIR" CONTROL". And I get this kind of response all the time from this mentality. Whatever THEY see, everyone else HAS TO BE THE SAME THING. GRRRR!!!!

Ok, one more example: My sister WHO IS JUST LIKE MY FATHER?
She has HAD TO HAVE CONTROL EVER SINCE I WAS BORN. Yes she played with me, BUT IT ALWAYS HAD TO BE "HER" WAY. And she never changed. Holidays HAVE TO BE AT "HER" home and EVERYTING ABOUT THE HOLIDAY AT "HER" HOME HAS TO GO "HER" WAY. I can't even (or anyone else) go into her kitchen when she is getting the food ready, you ask her if she needs help AND SHE SAYS NO THANKS I GOT IT AND PLEASE STAY OUT OF "MY" KITCHEN. And she can drink anyone under the table if she wants to. She did have a problem with alcohol too. But then she went the other way AND SHE IS JUST LIKE MY DAD IN SO MANY WAYS.

Am I a victim of abuse? Yes, all my life, and whatever this is, IT IS HEREDITARY.


I could go on and on here.

Open Eyes

I totally understand. I was robbed one night working as a manager at a restaurant, and people think I need to be over it. (about 4 years ago) I can't help that things and thoughts trigger episodes, and that I freak out at night when I am alone. It is hard.
I remember reading in an earlier post that it is like telling a person in a wheelchair to get up and walk...could not have made a better metaphor myself.

good luck to you...to all of us

Wow, did I scare everybody with my veryyyy long rant here? What to do think the root of that rant is about? Alcoholism? That person Woman Healing that triggered me and others here, and by the way this is not the only thread she has done this in either. Does that mean she is a BAD person? Nope. I think she did find something that helped her though. but she didn't get something important there in that program.
And neither did my husband. And yet because she triggered me and I discussed with my husband and pointed out a similarity, guess what he did?

Well, I watched my husband do exactly what my father does, my sister does and even my daughter does. When you say something "THAT IS NOT THIER WAY, THEIR THINKING, they shut you off. The all have this same turn off switch. And it is part of the root of my PTSD. And for the first time, I had it in writing too and I could show it to my T and talk about it BECAUSE I KNOW IT IS A BIG PART OF WHY I AM SO MISUNDERSTOOD.

What we are talking about here? How we struggle with people telling us to "JUST GET OVER IT?" Well it hurts and the reason it hurts is BECAUSE THAT MEANS NO ONE IS LISTENING TO US. And for many of us, THAT BECAME A REAL PROBLEM BECAUSE SOMEWHERE, SOMEHOW, WE NEEDED HELP AND NO ONE LISTENED AND IT HURT.

Actually Woman Healing did me a favor and I do tell everyone to pay attention to triggers because they mean something. And if you read my rant, there is a lot there and it goes ALL THE WAY BACK. And maybe some here can relate in THEIR OWN WAY. Because that is what is important here. It is not all about MY WAY or WOMAN HEALING'S WAY, it is about what is YOUR WAY? What or how do you NEED TO BE HEARD?

I spend a lot of time posting to different members here and you know why? Have you figured it out yet now? That is because I HONESTLY KNOW WHAT IS LIKE TO NEED SOMEONE TO LISTEN AND VALIDATE YOU.

I have been here a year and so many people have told me or thanked me because somehow I got them or heard them or gave them what they needed. You know how that happens? By listening, by developing the skill to by what they even TRY TO TEACH IN AA. They try to teach how to stop and allow SOMEONE ELSE TO SHARE.
And when you allow someone else to share, it doesn't mean WAIT UNTIL YOU HAVE YOUR TURN TO TAKE CONTROL AGAIN.

I don't have ALL THE CORRECT PERFECT ANSWERS AND I AM NOT A THERAPIST, but I DO TRY VERY HARD TO "LISTEN" because I know what it feels like TO NOT BE HEARD. That is what my long rant is about.

People wonder HOW COME I SEEM TO KNOW SO MUCH. I have learned that WHEN YOU LISTEN you ALSO LEARN.

Woman Healing had some things right. And she thinks that if the world did AA AND THE 12 STEPS we could be a better world. Well that is NOT THE WHOLE TRUTH. What we have to all learn how to do is LISTEN.

People have a right to feel hurt and be able to say I HURT SOMETHING IS WRONG and BE HEARD.

Open Eyes

If you LISTEN to a child, they learn to listen. If you don't listen to a child they begin to think they are unworthy, they begin to think they CANT TELL, they think that they HAVE TO HOLD THINGS IN SOMEHOW or that THEY ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH until FINALLY THEY GROW UP AND HURT SO BAD they SUFFER WITH PTSD and yet the know HOW IT FEELS NOT TO BE HEARD, so sometimes they LISTEN TO OTHERS and THEY CAN FEEL HOW OTHERS DONT HAVE ANYONE TO LISTEN AND HOW LONELY IT IS.

And finally they sit with a therapist AND THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT TO SAY BECAUSE THEY FEEL THEY SHOULD NOT TALK OR THEY WILL BE JUDGED. And somehow IF THE THERAPIST IS GOOD ENOUGH they finally find their words, words that they are AFRAID TO SAY, and yet SO BADLY WANT TO SAY, SO BADLY NEED TO SAY. And it can take along time TO GET DOWN ALL THE THINGS THEY ALWAYS WANTED TO SAY TRIED TO SAY, WERE AFRAID TO SAY. And finally there comes some relief because if the therapist is good, HE WILL SHOW HE IS LISTENING AND FINALLY we finally BEGIN TO HEAL.

(((HUGS)))

Open Eyes

Empathy is rare in this day and age. I find that I have shut a lot of people out of my life because they just don't "get it". Their ignorance or self-centeredness can sometimes be cruel.

I am blessed with the fact that I realize I won't be getting over it. I started therapy with a diagnosis of MPD (DID) in 1991. I recovered from the MPD quickly because I worked my tail off; however, the PTSD has gotten worse because I ended up in an abusive relationship with a man that had Borderline Personality Disorder.

He finally died and I'm still after 3 years trying to "get back to my normal".

So, anger, fear, frustration, self-pity, it runs the whole gammut when someone suggests that you should just get over it. I quit feeling guilt over not being able to get over it. I didn't cause what happened to me when I was a child and I didn't understand what was going on in my abusive marriage until after he was dead.

I would love to get over it!!! Yeah, sort of like trying to tell a person in a wheelchair to get up and walk.

Sometimes, the best I can do on any given day is to desire to be alive. I call those my bad days now. That's progress!

You know that commercial about the airline where people are sitting in a cab all scrunched up and miserable? They ask if you wouldn't put up with it on the ground why put up with it in the air?

I finally got to the point that I really believe that I don't deserve that kind of behavior from anybody. There is not a doormat attached to my back that says that I have to just calmly accept those unkind, unthinking, inconsiderate statements from anybody. I used to just tear up, turn away so they wouldn't see me on the verge of tears and now, I don't allow people like that in my life. I won't let them rent space in my head either.

I totaly agree with you , nobody wants to be stuck in pain , or not want to get over their emotional trauma . I' have detach myself away from those that caused me my emotionail trauma now . I feel I'm slowly recovering from my emotionail trauma .

yes , cause not everyone gets pstd from trauma , they think everyone over time gets over trauma . Not everyone can do this and people need to take the time and understand this . Also learn abit of empathy and put themselves in the other's shoes.

Thing is regardless of if I want it or not I am stuck in pain, so I am trying to learn to cope with that. But it makes it hard when people assume I should just be able to get over it. I never got over any of it, I didn't get over the bullying from teachers and students....I didn't get over that girl getting shot at my school and it's all burnt me out so much I sometimes feel there is nothing left of me. I mean I don't even know if I can recover...I mean my earliest memory of a pre-school type program involves a teacher singling me out and picking on me..I sometimes wonder if that is not part of what caused my PTSD.

And that really pisses me off, that thought...because at that time I was a helpless 4 year old child, I mean I had no way to handle that treatment.

Sigh...sometimes, as I struggle with PTSD, I feel like I can't find my way out of a paper bag. I managed to poke some small holes so I can at least breath at times, but I am still in that paper bag. Other people insist it is easy, maybe they can find their way out, or just dont see the paper bag somehow. I see it every day and it is one tough bag.

Right now I find the loneliness to be the worst part, I mean even when I am around people I feel isolated. And they still have the energy for life, I attempt to fake it because I don't want them to worry. I mean I know others have experianced this sort of thing and possibly worse than me...but that does not really do too much to help the pain I feel. I mean I can honestly say I am only here and doing my best not to screw myself by drinking too much because of my close friend, a few other friends and close family. Its like I am cursed to watch people enjoying themselves through a locked window that prevents me from taking part...unless of course I am on drugs that cause euphoria. I guess I am just having a hard time living with this horrible disorder...sorry if I derailed this just needed to vent. I mean I tried so hard to work with what I had and it seemed to only bring more misery....I mean its like i tried my hardest only for life to get worse. I feel like I fail at life.

Yes! People tell me this too! There are lots of things in my life I can't get over and people tell me to just let it go or they say things like..."it's been years! And it still bothers you?" Makes me feel like somethings wrong with me