NOT

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P T S D

is N O T

a mental illness!!!!

It IS a

P S Y C H I A T R I C I N J U R Y.



sigh. [image}http://www.clipartcastle.com/gallery...animated21.gif[/image]

I'm not sure what's on your mind today Sky. What's up?

According to what I know, Post Traumatic Stress DISORDER is considered a Psychiatric Disorder. As you know, a disorder is NOT the same thing as an illness, or a disease.

A disorder is just a list of symptoms. If we have a bunch of those symptoms....they give us that diagnosis. Same thing goes for Major Depressive Disorder, Bi-Polar Disorder, etc.

You know all this....so what's up? Feel frustrated with the term mental illness? Yeah, I probably use it too much. I think it's a habit for a lot of people.

Take care. emmy

" PTSD is a psychiatric injury, not a mental illness. One symptom of psychiatric injury is reactive depression which leads to thoughts of suicide."

Mental illness
* the cause is easily identifiable and verifiable, but denied by those who are accountable
* the person may be incoherent or what they say doesn't make sense
* the person may appear to be obsessed
* the person is oblivious to their behaviour and the effect it has on others
* the depression is a clinical or endogenous depression
* there may be a history of depression in the family
* the person has usually exhibited mental health problems before
* may respond inappropriately to the needs and concerns of others
* displays a certitude about themselves, their circumstances and their actions
* may suffer a persecution complex
* suicidal thoughts are the result of despair, dejection and hopelessness
* exhibits despair
* often doesn't look forward to each new day
* is often ready to give in or admit defeat

Psychiatric injury
* the cause is easily identifiable and verifiable, but denied by those who are accountable
* the person is often articulate but prevented from articulation by being traumatised
* the person is obsessive, especially in relation to identifying the cause of their injury and both dealing with the cause and effecting their recovery
* the person is in a state of acute self-awareness and aware of their state, but often unable to explain it
* the depression is reactive; the chemistry is different to endogenous depression
* there is very often no history of depression in the individual or their family
* often there is no history of mental health problems
* responds empathically to the needs and concerns of others, despite their own injury
* is often highly sceptical about their condition and circumstances and is in a state of disbelief and bewilderment which they will easily and often articulate ("I can't believe this is happening to me" and "Why me?" - click here for the answer)
* may experience an unusually heightened sense of vulnerability to possible victimisation (ie hypervigilance)
* suicidal thoughts are often a logical and carefully thought-out solution or conclusion
* is driven by the anger of injustice
* looks forward to each new day as an opportunity to fight for justice
* refuses to be beaten, refuses to give up

I have to agree with you sky. What's up? BTW, love that photo. ((((((sky)))))))

I think this first bullet point under MI should be that the cause is NOT identifiable.

Ya know what bugs me about the lists? They break us (we who have ANY diagnosis) down into two categories: 1) those who have a PSYCHIATRIC INJURY, and 2) those who are just MENTALLY ILL and seemingly hopeless. I just really don't like that list for mental illness. It's sorta insulting and futile sounding. You know what I mean, Sky? But, the list for psychiatric injury is written in such a way as to be empowering. The rest of us shouldn't even get outta bed tho!

I think that the term "psychiatric injury" actually came out of the legal field, not the psychiatric field. It's used to figure out which potential client has an injury that someone can be held "accountable". So from a lawyer's perspective...depression, schizophrenia, and bi-polar disorder are hopeless. Can't sue anyone for that.

So, if I'm in a car accident, and suffer tremendous trauma/flashbacks from seeing people die...I may get a diagnosis of PTSD. But if the drunk driver takes responsibility for it, I can't have a psychiatric injury? Oh so confusing.

I hope this makes sense, cuz you know sometimes I'm incoherent! And I hope this post doesn't offend you, cuz sometimes I can be oblivious to my behavior, AND I often respond inappropriately to the needs of others. But, jeepers, I give up. I am defeated!! See, I'm mentally ill and just can't help myself!!

emmy (meaning no harm, just feeling chatty!)

Hmmm... then what do we do with me?? I have PTSD, Major Depression (recurrent, severe w/o psychotic features), and Dysthymia.

From the "Mental Illness" List, I have:
* the cause is easily identifiable and verifiable, but denied by those who are accountable (YES & NO there)
* the person may appear to be obsessed
* the person is oblivious to their behaviour and the effect it has on others
* the depression is a clinical or endogenous depression
* there may be a history of depression in the family
* the person has usually exhibited mental health problems before
* may respond inappropriately to the needs and concerns of others
* suicidal thoughts are the result of despair, dejection and hopelessness
* exhibits despair
* often doesn't look forward to each new day
* is often ready to give in or admit defeat

From the "Psychiatric Injury" List:
* the cause is easily identifiable and verifiable, but denied by those who are accountable
* the person is often articulate but prevented from articulation by being traumatised
* the person is obsessive, especially in relation to identifying the cause of their injury and both dealing with the cause and effecting their recovery
* the person is in a state of acute self-awareness and aware of their state, but often unable to explain it
* the depression is reactive; the chemistry is different to endogenous depression (yes and no)
* responds empathically to the needs and concerns of others, despite their own injury
* is often highly sceptical about their condition and circumstances and is in a state of disbelief and bewilderment which they will easily and often articulate ("I can't believe this is happening to me" and "Why me?" - click here for the answer)
* may experience an unusually heightened sense of vulnerability to possible victimisation (ie hypervigilance)
* suicidal thoughts are often a logical and carefully thought-out solution or conclusion
* refuses to be beaten, refuses to give up

You might think some of those things are in conflict, but welcome to my life.

I have a family history of a lot of "mental illness" and a lot of "psychiatric injury".

I think that the distinction made between the two here is very black and white, and, imho, pointless & needless. Why the need to categorize and stigmatize further people who are in pain?

P.S. Does the term "Diathesis Stress Model" ring a bell to anyone here?

Things are never quite so simple.

Are you taking abnormal psychology this semester?? I loved that class! Then I realized they were talking about me and my family, and it wasn't so fun....

I had to go look it up, cuz I couldn't remember the "Diathesis Stress Model". But, yes....that's one I can hang my hat on.

This hat

emmy

No, actually I'm not taking abnormal psych. But yes I have.

The diathesis stress model is taught in a LOT of psych classes. I've learned about that so many times, I think it's burned into my brain permanently lol!

What is diathesis stress model?

Why can't you have PTSD if the drunk driver takes responsibiity? You still saw people die. To me, the driver taking responsibility is irrelevant.

Hi Angel Girl,

The Diathesis Stress Model basically explains that the development of psychological issues is very complex and it can't be attributed to biology NOR to experience, but instead is influenced by both.

We can inherit a tendency toward developing a particular trait, but that trait may not develop without certain stressors triggering it. Our biology isn't the one answer to understanding, and neither is experience.

Biology influences our experiences, our experiences influence our biology, both influence our mental/emotional/spiritual/physical well-being, and vice versa.

Basically the idea is that there isn't a single "cause" nor is there a simple explanation for psychological issues, but a lot of contributing factors that can be difficult (if even possible) to fully sort out and understand.

Hope that makes sense . I've never really tried to explain it before.

~Angela

Thanks SweetCrusader. I think I understand.

_Sky,

Would you please incidate where these lists came from so we can verify the source? Also would you care to elaborate on why you are posting these lists? If this is posted to enlighten us would you please let us know why we need such enlightenment? I think context would help these lists have more impact as we could then know why this distinction is so important to you and for others to understand.

Thanks. Just wondering if this is from a book, pamphlet, website, or your own collection of PTSD stuff?

oops under the mental illness list is cause is NOT usually identifiable...

sorry.

it's found at http://www.bullyonline.org/stress/ptsd.htm

Yes, originally the term psychiatrict injury was only a legal term, but is commonly accepted in the medical field now ...

No nothing is for your enlightenment, now is it? It's all about me. Sorry if I offended everyone by saying something about my feelings.

Sky - I was hoping you WOULD post about your feelings, then you posted the list. I'm still interested in hearing your feelings.

emmy

me too

take care dear sky,
Kimberly.

Sky:

Under mental illness, you stated the person:
may respond inappropriately to the needs and concerns of others.

However, the one suffering from PTSD is always empathetic??? So those of us suffering mental illness on this site aren't empathetic? We cannot respond appropriately to other people who are suffering??

Many of us were born with the genetic potential to develop certain conditions - and in homes where we were traumatized to boot. Where do you classify us?

*sigh*

I think I am content to explain my 'problems' as life. Some people drift through life with little awareness of emotional distress or any learned response to trauma. Others, however, are acutely aware of everything that surrounds them.

I am a highly sensitive person. I was a gifted child. I was traumatized in ways that I can't begin to comprehend before I was even 4 months old. Some classify me as clinically depressed. My pdoc classifies me as having PTSD. My problems have ranged from generalized anxiety to physical manifestation of extreme stress. At the worst, my nervous system malfunctioned and I suffered visual loss, fine motor control loss, some gross motor control, seizures. It is no different to me than when I fell and broke my wrist. It's just that my wrist healed more quickly. I don't think that the damage done from abandonment and attachment issues will ever heal.

Some people develop cancer. Some people have heart conditions or high blood pressure. Some people have a genetic predisposition to complicated brain chemistry that causes depression or other so-called 'psychiatric illness.' And some people suffer injuries that affect them. A 'psychiatric' injury is no less valid or serious than a physical one. I don't think that it is productive to separate the psychiatric from the physiological, because they are both aspects of your whole being.

Yes, I am preaching to the choir here. The 'stigma' of perceived 'mental' problems angers me. I get furious at people who tell me to 'do something about it' or 'get over it' or 'stop being so pathetic'. This society is so f*cked up in its thinking.

I don't like to nitpick over technicalities. I hate conflict and tension. Suffice to say, I find this place mostly consoling because we all try to understand each other.

Thus, I don't think it is productive to 'classify' except to understand how to heal or cope.

Sky, I liked your lists. It helps to break down the generalizations into specific issues.... helps to understand the various aspects of my depression vs. my PTSD vs. my generalized anxiety.

Am I making any sense?

_Sky,

I'm with Emmy here........there are people asking about your feelings. We see the lists and the distinctions but it doesn't tell us what is going on with you.

Thank you for the link to that site. I found a lot of good information on the pages I flipped through.

As for your last sentence I do not know how to respond.

Everybody here is working on communication skills so misunderstandings are bound to happen. If we can discuss what is troubling you (if that is even close to what you are feeling.......I'm guessing.....I'm not clairvoyant) then we can better know what your needs are.

Lists out of context and with one liners leave us for more.

Click Here

Okay, you all know I am fragile etc but let me play a Rodney King, Why can't we all just get along? Sky, I wish this were a place where we could be loving and embracing of eachother and our difficulties without the labels and the negative feelings. I am not okay with the tone of us vs. them. I know that me and them is only by choice of profession and that we are all more similar then not. YES, I HAVE PTSD and it's a pain in the buttocks. I am also more and different then this diagnoses and others. No disrespect intended Sky, reaching out with love.

Post deleted by _Sky

<font color="blue">Thinking... each person will read those lists from the perspective that their mental states allows... not necessarily from someone without either dx, who is being objective. If you argue with something, perhaps it's best for you to take that exact example and realize the reason you are aguing is on the list too!

The subject of labeling rears it's head often. There are needs for labels, yet also needs to be humans not the labels we find represent something with whice we struggle.

It is unfortunate that stating FACTS brings about such strong emotions. I posted because I was emotionally upset, that I am NOT being mentally ill. I AM NOT. Maybe this thread didn't do much for you, but it has become my declaration for realization of where I'm at, and why I'm here (there.) IF PTSD is treated as a mental illness, if the patient takes that mindset, few things make sense. (Possibly because they are trying to use the wrong "list?")

These 2 lists helped me realize that there is a difference. While it's in black &amp; white, not all the things on the list are black &amp; white. That's one of the problems ptsd creates. PTSD also creates a problem with speaking in generalities. (Now, doesn't that sound a bit contradictory in itself to you? It does to me, yet I understand it, because I'm living it.)

It does not account for protracted PTSD and how the depression that goes "with" ptsd is different than the depression that may develop alongside and because of the time it takes to learn to live with ptsd. It also doesn't account for the "stockholm syndrome' which I, personally, have also developed.

But, for me, the posting of these lists created a clear building block. I may forget what all is here, but hopefully I will remember it's here, and refer to it.

It showed me how I view even other's illness differently... from my own, and because of my ptsd.

Yes, there are legitimate studies about how there can be a propensity to develop ptsd if your previous environment exposed you to certain aspects of life... but it doesn't mean you will "get ptsd." [a previous example I used was about the high percentage of those with Jewish backgrounds are Senators. ..But being Jewish doesn't mean you will also be a senator! ]

Another fact brought out was the melding of the mind and body. PTSD is a very complicated example of this phenomena. And maybe even caused the current study and understanding of just how connected! IMO.

As you may or may not have read, my psychotherapy is hitting CBT in stronger ways than it has in past. I am not the same, and will not be the same, again.
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"If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch."