[jamesmb]

I thought about posting this in the spirituality forum, but decided against it: not really in the spirit of that forum.

I'm just after honest answers by people who have worked through these issues.

No religious debate sought. Mods PLEASE KILL THIS THREAD if it turns into that. Or move it elsehwere.

My personal issues involve sexual abuse (by another child), and physical abuse related to making mistakes while practicing a musical instrument.

I find it more difficult to pray, the more I drag these memories out into the open to deal with them.

Sorry jamesmb, I can't help out much because I never did resolve that issue.

I lost faith in God when I was a very little girl when he-she-it let all the evil stuff creep into my life, even after I prayed and asked for help. It was just a waste of my energy, imo.

I wanted to believe that little kids could get their prayers answered, but children continue to suffer all over the world so I guess it just doesn't work that way, imo. And then again, I believed in Santa Claus and that didn't work out either.

Hope you can find some peace while you're going through all of this.

I wish you speedy healing.

[deliquesce]

i stopped going to church when all of these memories started resurfacing and i realised what they meant. when i was younger, it didn't matter that God wasn't there, because i thought that i deserved everything that happened - that he was the one punishing me. so it would make sense that He wasn't there.

when i found out (a few years ago) that it wasn't my fault, i must admit it was a huge blow to my faith. i didn't think of it in terms of "where was He?" but more like - i believed everything my parents told me, and this was another thing they told me to believe in. our church is very brimstone + fire preachery, and everytime i went there it just reinforced the idea that *i* was the bad person, and deserved continued punishment.

in a way, i think God might understand that i am taking a 'break' from all of it right now. i do want to return to all of that in the future, but right now i am hurting too much to continue. i guess i need to be acquainted with the God who actually does care when these things happen, and to believe that i am someone he would care about. my whole life - it has been like i am only there because He wanted to punish me.

[(JD)]

One of my long-term goals is to write what I've found on this.

I have believed for quite some time that the ability to have faith in God is somewhere in the brain nearby where events and memories are... since when trauma occurs and events and memory files are scattered onto the "floor" it appears that faith also becomes garbled.

Relying upon what was "known" prior to the trauma works. Some can have the mental capacity to remember how it was they felt when they knew they had faith. But something does change after trauma... it's a loss of the sense of closeness with God, the sense of "knowing" and having that faith.

So faith's definition changes. Now you have to fully rely upon God to be there, whether you can experience Him like before or not. He IS there, you know? Nothing can separate us...

Don't doubt in the dark what you knew to be true in the light.

[jamesmb]

Thank you all for your honest responses. I hope to do individual thank you's later.

I hate to repeat what others may have read on another thread. But today, my wife was admitted to the hospital for a blocked left carotid artery. She's had headaches for 2 weeks, and spent all of last night and most of today either vomiting or sleeping. Now her speech is slurred.

The prayer I came up went like this (with liberal apologies to Carolyn Myss)
"I don't know who you are
or even if you are
or that if you are, that I even like you

"But you are the only thing I can turn to right now

"But I would like to point out
that now, you are asking WAAAYY too much of me

"Thank you".

Personally, I like the idea of turning to the higher power I believed in before the trauma.

More - and differing -input is absolutely welcome.

[Capp]

jamesmb, hi...
Thank you for asking this question. Many of us have grappled with this for a very long time.

The following is only my experience;
I grew up believing that my lot in life was to be abused in many ways. It was not until I left that hellhole that I saw things in a different way.
The denomination does not matter, but the "God" of my childhood was akin to a granddaddy in a long flowing robe of white with the intention of making people suffer...whenever he/she/it wanted to do so..
"She pissed me off 'cause she didn't say enough prayers on Tuesday so I'm gonna give her cancer/heart attack/auto accident and show her who is boss." In other words if you didn't do things/anythings in the correct manner you were in for a helluva bad time.

As I grew up and away from that thinking, I asked that question many times in a rage.
It was not until I observed and absorbed different spiritual paths that I learned there were different ideas about what "God" was and wasn't...
The God I was raised with, the demanding and punishing one was gently replaced with Loving Presence. Now I mostly follow the Native American spiritual path...

This Loving Presence was with me always, giving me strength and courage. This Presence was not responsible for the actions of others--they made decisions that hurt me, and others, and very nearly destroyed me.
Their actions were not commandments from "God."

I believe the things that kept me going during that terrible time were gifts, small in nature but with powerful medicine.
Wild strawberries eaten with delight when I was hungry, the
dogs on the front porch who kept me warm when I was locked out of the house for "being bad", the sight of wildflowers climbing the hills...Books. I lived for the days when the library was open and I could read them. In a simple way the contents of those books eased me into self-respect. The beginning of the knowledge that I was not a bad little girl, but I was in a bad situation.

I'm ancient and have had time to learn and grow and lose the fear of a vindictive God...
Over the years, and with the help of a good therapist, I've been able to see many things did keep me going and kept me strong...so there was something that was giving me gifts.
I do not believe in coincidence. I do not think an angel should have come to the back door with a powerful message of hope or one of meanness.

Is there punishment of some kind waiting for my abusers when they cross over? Hell if I know. What I do know is that they lived in hell when they were alive...

What I also know is there were infusions of beauty and simple pleasures that made life tolerable for me. I did not survive on my own. No "God" stood by and enjoyed my suffering.
A Loving Presence walked with me.
Please understand that it took me some time before I stopped blaming their God for their actions. It also took time for me to understand that my Loving Presence/Great Mystery was weeping right along with me, our tears mixed together.

It initially frightened me when I strayed from the traditional path of waiting for punishment.
I jumped for joy when it did not come.
I wept when I understood that no God put me through any tests of faith.
It had been easier for me to blame this God and not hold my abusers responsible for their actions.

Some people see terrible things on the news and wonder why this God allows these things to happen...it has come to my mind about the people of Darfur, a mind-boggling catastrophe. The only thing that allows such things to happen are human beings, those who are actively slaughtering the innocents, those who stand by/remain silent while it continues.

Long reply and for this I offer my apology.
It was an absolute must for me to make the journey from what was killing me inside to opening my heart to the goodness around me...and in me.

Cap

[sky dancer]

Originally Posted by jamesmb

I thought about posting this in the spirituality forum, but decided against it: not really in the spirit of that forum.

I'm just after honest answers by people who have worked through these issues.

No religious debate sought. Mods PLEASE KILL THIS THREAD if it turns into that. Or move it elsehwere.

My personal issues involve sexual abuse (by another child), and physical abuse related to making mistakes while practicing a musical instrument.

I find it more difficult to pray, the more I drag these memories out into the open to deal with them.

I changed paths completely. That's how I solved the problem. Considering the Church supported and was complicit with my perpetrator--it was the sensible thing to do.

I have a strong committment to a spiritual path, but I don't believe in an external all powerful God.

[splitimage]

I didn't give up on God / Higher Power so much as I gave up on organized religion. I'm a preacher's kid, so grew up seeing a lot of church politics / hypocrisy and "good" people not being around for me when I was little and hurting and my father was drunk. When I left home at 18, one of the things I swore was that I'd never set foot in a church again. The universe, proving it has a sense of humour, or irony at least, now sees me spending a minimum of 3 hours a week in various church basements around town.

I remember my Mom, before she got sick, and me spending time alone at our cottage and whenever we heard the wind in the trees, she'd say that that was God talking. Somehow despite years driving any idea of God into the ground, that thought stayed with me. I now pretty much describe my concept of a higher power as the force of nature. It's impersonal in the sense that it doesn't intervene in individual lives to make bad or good things happen to anybody - people do that. But it is a source of comfort to me, and reminds me that there is something bigger than me out there that I don't understand. I see it in the beauty of flowers and rainbows, and hear it in the wind in the trees.

--splitimage

[Elysium]

WOW!!

That seems to be the Million $dollar$ question for me..!

I'm not sure I have resolved it yet. I know I am angry...very angry at the people who committed these acts against me. I am also extremely hurt.

To me, I've come to a point where I believe there is a force greater than myself, greater than this world and this universe, out there somewhere that has supreme knowledge of what is happening everywhere.

It's difficult for me to think that this force, power, God...whatever you would like to call it, would sit by and witness the pain and tragedy that exist in this world. Especially the pain and tragedy that inflicts children.

I have found that I HAVE to believe that, although it is devastating, this supreme force has no choice but to watch as these tragedies unfold. Not because it could not intervene, but because there was something that the people involved in the experiences were supposed to learn from it. Whether that be about themselves, the world...whatever.

I believe that this supreme force/being (whatever) does intervene at times and is always there to protect in anyway possible.

HOWEVER...I could easily allow myself to feel betrayed and hurt and lost and rejected...it's not a far leap for me. I constantly push these things out of my head because if I didn't then I would really truly be alone and the only reason for me to have experienced the trauma I had experienced would have been because people that I loved that were supposed to love me back didn't. I can't handle that reality. I cling to my faith to keep all this worth something.

[Fuzzybear]