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  #126  
Old Mar 27, 2014, 04:58 AM
sewerrats sewerrats is offline
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Originally Posted by jimi... View Post
I think it has to be up to the patient if they want to continue to struggle with starting up a med. And the doc should not push it if it is not safe. I got the speech a few times to try a little longer and it will get better. I have tried when I felt it was OK enough, but even me who is very stubborn had to give up on a few meds. Only I can understand how bad it was. Sometimes words don't describe it well enough. Like with one SSRI I could only think in spurts. Doesn't sound bad huh.... But my mind would go blank completely for maybe 3-5 seconds, then all the thoughts would turn on for maybe a second then turned off again. You can't function like that. Still... when I say it it doesn't sound like hell.

I pushed through starting up prozac even if I had severe akathisia. So I know I'm not one who just gives up. I'm not sure it was a good idea really, but yea, like I said, stubborn.

I don't know how not to scare people. Starting on a med IS a big thing.
By waiting for them to tell you a side effect THEY FEEL , not what you felt

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  #127  
Old Mar 27, 2014, 05:15 AM
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By waiting for them to tell you a side effect THEY FEEL , not what you felt
I don't know how you are going to stop people from coming on here and *****ing about the side effects they feel. There was someone who came on yesterday and posted how good they were doing on meds but that doesn't happen that often. I still say most people doing really good on meds are not going to come on here and tell us about it. People are just going to post about the negative experiences. And yes that would scare noobs.
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The "paradox" is only a conflict between reality and your feeling of what reality "ought to be." -- Richard Feynman

Major Depressive Disorder
Anxiety Disorder with some paranoid delusions thrown in for fun.
Recovering Alcoholic and Addict
Possibly on low end of bi polar spectrum...trying to decide.

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  #128  
Old Mar 27, 2014, 05:38 AM
sewerrats sewerrats is offline
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Originally Posted by onionknight View Post
This is totally wrong! People sometimes come to a doctor after seeing an ad or talking to a friend, thinking they have a problem because of the power of suggestion! It is up to a doctor to be the voice of reason and discuss options and other explanations with their patient.

People think antidepressants aren't a big deal, don't cause dependence, don't cause any serious side effects, can't make you feel worse because the media, pharmacy industry, experts have pushed these misconceptions into the mainstream wisdom. The potential gains of medications are over-played, and the potential for harm and side effects is down-played. That's called marketing.
You see in England we don't get all that, there is no tv adverts for meds, we cannot buy them only from America with a script and a shed load of money, They are not forced on us like America were average 1 person a household is on meds . its 1 person a bock in England. Our GPS don't get visits from reps they get NHS approved meds and that's it. The chemist do the med deals you can ask for a brand of generic if you like , if they have it you can have it free if out of work. There is very little shrink med choise in England and combos are off the menu , 1 med if it don't work try another not add to it, no wellbutrin to add to meds has it is banned for shrink use, our country deem it dangerouse
  #129  
Old Mar 27, 2014, 09:05 AM
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I still say most people doing really good on meds are not going to come on here and tell us about it. People are just going to post about the negative experiences. And yes that would scare noobs.
Medication use should reflect legitimate scientific outcome studies, right? Nevertheless, it is very likely true that people who are doing well with MI, whether medicated or not, are less likely to talk about their experiences. There's a blogger on Psychology Today who posts about this and calls it "the clinicians illusion."
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  #130  
Old Mar 27, 2014, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by zinco14532323 View Post
I don't know how you are going to stop people from coming on here and *****ing about the side effects they feel.
People have to talk about this when they need to. It's usually not to complain but to see if they are alone or if someone else had it, if it lasted, if it went away and so on. Quite human. Sometimes people have scary times with meds and should we shut them up? If we did, I think we would hurt them.

I've said SEVERAL times how well my SSRI works. Oddly enough there is a person on here who just HAS to be negative about that.... says it's not a good med, it shouldn't work, it is too weak yadda yadda.

Can't flipping win!
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  #131  
Old Mar 27, 2014, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Lauliza View Post
That is awful. So did your doctor/pa NOT tell you about the possible cognitive side effects of Lamictal? If not that is negligence on their part big time. My pdoc emphasised that over the rash! What lasting effects have you noticed if you don't mind my asking, or if you prefer to pm that's fine too.

Cognitive impairment is a risk with every AP and AD. The only difference is the meningitis help things along and I notice not being able to perform in my job. Most people do not notice until a family member tells them. There's a name for that. I have trouble thinking things through... Analyzing is a problem. Kinda short on time today.

---------

On disclosure and noobs... I think full disclosure is something patients don't get from the industry until it is too late. If they get a little scared here it is probably not a bad thing. I'd like to say patients are more aware and intelligent Thant the industry or some people here give them credit for. If somebody is posting about a side effect they mostly know that means they aren't necessarily going to experience the same thing to the same degree. Full disclosure means knowing that which is why it should be practiced. Hiding the possibility is, Quite frankly stupid for several reasons discussed. There is a good article about this on mad in America but I can't get the link right now.

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  #132  
Old Mar 27, 2014, 10:27 AM
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Altered Moment Altered Moment is offline
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Originally Posted by jimi... View Post
People have to talk about this when they need to. It's usually not to complain but to see if they are alone or if someone else had it, if it lasted, if it went away and so on. Quite human. Sometimes people have scary times with meds and should we shut them up? If we did, I think we would hurt them.

I've said SEVERAL times how well my SSRI works. Oddly enough there is a person on here who just HAS to be negative about that.... says it's not a good med, it shouldn't work, it is too weak yadda yadda.

Can't flipping win!
I am not at all saying that people should not post on negative side effects. They should. I was pointing out to SewerRats that you can't stop them from posting and yes that is probably going to scare some noobs. It is not really a fair question when someone comes on and says "I am starting this new med and what is your experience with it." The answers vary so widely I don't know if it is a useful question. Everyones experience is so much different. Yes there are some very common side effects like the sexual ones with SSRI's. But the only way to know is to try it and see what happens.

They should also be warned by their pdocs about the dangerous ones and what to watch for.
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The "paradox" is only a conflict between reality and your feeling of what reality "ought to be." -- Richard Feynman

Major Depressive Disorder
Anxiety Disorder with some paranoid delusions thrown in for fun.
Recovering Alcoholic and Addict
Possibly on low end of bi polar spectrum...trying to decide.

Male, 50

Fetzima 80mg
Lamictal 100mg
Remeron 30mg for sleep
Klonopin .5mg twice a day, cutting this back
  #133  
Old Mar 27, 2014, 11:08 AM
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sewerrats
You see in England we don't get all that, there is no tv adverts for meds, we cannot buy them only from America with a script and a shed load of money, They are not forced on us like America were average 1 person a household is on meds . its 1 person a bock in England.

Yeah, there are big differences between US and UK. No meds ads here.
In US everyone seems to have a therapist, whereas here I don't know anyone with one.
CBT seems to be offered now, but only last about 6 weeks.
Thanks for this!
sewerrats
  #134  
Old Mar 27, 2014, 01:45 PM
sewerrats sewerrats is offline
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We seem to be getting a little mixes up on this thread , its nothing to do with newbies asking questions , its about the negative answers they get. They don't want to hear horror stories from members just because they may have had a hard time on a certain med, they may think it will happen to them. By all means answer a call for help with a side effect they may have, but don't tell them before the have one.
  #135  
Old Mar 27, 2014, 03:10 PM
sewerrats sewerrats is offline
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Originally Posted by marmaduke View Post
sewerrats
You see in England we don't get all that, there is no tv adverts for meds, we cannot buy them only from America with a script and a shed load of money, They are not forced on us like America were average 1 person a household is on meds . its 1 person a bock in England.

Yeah, there are big differences between US and UK. No meds ads here.
In US everyone seems to have a therapist, whereas here I don't know anyone with one.
CBT seems to be offered now, but only last about 6 weeks.
I keep trying to tell Americans , we don't get pampered on drugs in uk , that why our mental health is better in uk . We cannot just walk into a mental hospital , they would set security on you, you go when they send for you could be 3 years , and therapist what are they. A MENTAL HOSPITAL IN ENGLAND could ruin you life forever , no quite wards its warfare on a day and night basis,
  #136  
Old Mar 27, 2014, 04:09 PM
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I hope no one in the UK is thinking about going inpatient then... talk about scaring people!!!
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  #137  
Old Mar 27, 2014, 07:36 PM
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We cannot just walk into a mental hospital , they would set security on you, you go when they send for you could be 3 years ,
Oh yes, because in America we have an overabundance of psychiatric hospital beds, and the incredibly short stays mandated by insurance companies are good enough to get a patient on the right road to recovery. Come on.

Also, there are whole sites dedicated to people reporting side effects and experiences with various drugs. Some of the responses are way more extreme than on this forum. .
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  #138  
Old Mar 27, 2014, 07:52 PM
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My side effects with DBT have been pretty mild. Anybody experience side effects with CBT?

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  #139  
Old Mar 27, 2014, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Michanne View Post
My side effects with DBT have been pretty mild. Anybody experience side effects with CBT?
Funny. Or maybe not so for us who have been damaged by therapy.
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  #140  
Old Mar 27, 2014, 08:12 PM
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Well they are structured like classes and the dbt therapists are also supposed to work in a structured format to follow the group so one would >think< the likelihood is quite low but there are risks with everything, no? But to take it a step further if the system was integrated and patient centered care less patients would be damaged by the system period.

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  #141  
Old Mar 28, 2014, 04:25 AM
sewerrats sewerrats is offline
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Originally Posted by jimi... View Post
I hope no one in the UK is thinking about going inpatient then... talk about scaring people!!!
You would not survive jimi , nobody thinks about going inpatient in the UK. We don't have walk in hospital . To get in you must have tried suicide and still suicidal and a danger to yourself and the public, you go to A-E first for accessment and life saving help. Then in the morning a shrink nurse will come see how bad you are and prob send you home. Then there are SECTIONED PATIENTS they are most spooky there on lock down. You will stay in maybe 3 days in a dorm of the same sex If deemed chronic ill ,They get you stable on a med and open the door and let you go where ever you like . Home, BAR, nearest river, ect ect . Yet we have far fewer mentally ill , strange that don't you think . YOU GET WHAT YOU ASK FOR, WE GET WHAT WE ARE GIVEN take it or walk away
  #142  
Old Mar 28, 2014, 04:38 AM
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marmaduke marmaduke is offline
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Originally Posted by sewerrats View Post
You would not survive jimi , nobody thinks about going inpatient in the UK. We don't have walk in hospital . To get in you must have tried suicide and still suicidal and a danger to yourself and the public, you go to A-E first for accessment and life saving help. Then in the morning a shrink nurse will come see how bad you are and prob send you home. Then there are SECTIONED PATIENTS they are most spooky there on lock down. You will stay in maybe 3 days in a dorm of the same sex If deemed chronic ill ,They get you stable on a med and open the door and let you go where ever you like . Home, BAR, nearest river, ect ect . Yet we have far fewer mentally ill , strange that don't you think . YOU GET WHAT YOU ASK FOR, WE GET WHAT WE ARE GIVEN take it or walk away
Agree, thats just how it is. Nobody will notice you are struggling till there's a crisis.
Heck, I was told by my previous doc that she 'doesn't believe in depression' and people should just 'not dwell on problems' and they would be fine.
Yup, its that easy folks!
Thanks for this!
sewerrats
  #143  
Old Mar 28, 2014, 06:27 AM
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Sounds about he same as the US to me. And apparently it takes an act of God to get in to see a pdoc. So you probably underdiagnosed.
Mental Health Statistics

Quote:
The facts and figures around Mental Health in the UK are alarming.

1 in 4 people will experience some kind of mental health problem in the course of a year
Mixed anxiety and depression is the most common mental disorder in Britain
Women are more likely to have been treated for a mental health problem than men
About 10% of children have a mental health problem at any one time
Depression affects 1 in 5 older people
Suicides rates show that British men are three times as likely to die by suicide than British women
Self-harm statistics for the UK show one of the highest rates in Europe: 400 per 100,000 population
Only 1 in 10 prisoners has no mental disorder
__________________
The "paradox" is only a conflict between reality and your feeling of what reality "ought to be." -- Richard Feynman

Major Depressive Disorder
Anxiety Disorder with some paranoid delusions thrown in for fun.
Recovering Alcoholic and Addict
Possibly on low end of bi polar spectrum...trying to decide.

Male, 50

Fetzima 80mg
Lamictal 100mg
Remeron 30mg for sleep
Klonopin .5mg twice a day, cutting this back
  #144  
Old Mar 28, 2014, 09:42 AM
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YOU GET WHAT YOU ASK FOR, WE GET WHAT WE ARE GIVEN take it or walk away
Because you know, we are all pawns in a system on both the personal and sociological level. That disempowered attitude is another thing that leads to poor outcomes in mental health.
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  #145  
Old Mar 28, 2014, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by sewerrats View Post
You would not survive jimi
Wow thanx... exactly what I need to hear....

So everyone needing hospital there dies. Sure. I believe that. And include me personally in the dying business, yup I so needed to hear that right now....
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  #146  
Old Mar 28, 2014, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by jimi... View Post
Wow thanx... exactly what I need to hear....

So everyone needing hospital there dies. Sure. I believe that. And include me personally in the dying business, yup I so needed to hear that right now....
You can die if you cannot get into hospital, but only if you want to,but then you prob wanted to anyway ,To walk into a mental hospital reception and ask to see a Pdoc WONT WORK. They all have patients on 15 minute bookings with backlogs of hundreds , they don't just have a shrinks waiting for walk in patients off the street, Your met by security not everyone is just going to sit and wait like a gp patient. There mentally ill and imploding its a zoo , They keep you on a ward if you get in minimum so you don't get worse , your only there to find you a med. If like me you do get in, your main goal in life is to never ever go back , this is UK mental health
Thanks for this!
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  #147  
Old Mar 28, 2014, 01:35 PM
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Weird they let you out....
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  #148  
Old Mar 28, 2014, 05:27 PM
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Lauliza Lauliza is offline
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Originally Posted by Michanne View Post
Cognitive impairment is a risk with every AP and AD. The only difference is the meningitis help things along and I notice not being able to perform in my job. Most people do not notice until a family member tells them. There's a name for that. I have trouble thinking things through... Analyzing is a problem. Kinda short on time today.

---------

On disclosure and noobs... I think full disclosure is something patients don't get from the industry until it is too late. If they get a little scared here it is probably not a bad thing. I'd like to say patients are more aware and intelligent Thant the industry or some people here give them credit for. If somebody is posting about a side effect they mostly know that means they aren't necessarily going to experience the same thing to the same degree. Full disclosure means knowing that which is why it should be practiced. Hiding the possibility is, Quite frankly stupid for several reasons discussed. There is a good article about this on mad in America but I can't get the link right now.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
True there is some impairment with each me, but some like Lamictal (the AP's I guess) are just so much more obvious and like you say, actually have an impact on real life functioning (as in jon performance ). It sounds like you went through hell though.
  #149  
Old Mar 28, 2014, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by sewerrats View Post
You can die if you cannot get into hospital, but only if you want to,but then you prob wanted to anyway ,To walk into a mental hospital reception and ask to see a Pdoc WONT WORK. They all have patients on 15 minute bookings with backlogs of hundreds , they don't just have a shrinks waiting for walk in patients off the street, Your met by security not everyone is just going to sit and wait like a gp patient. There mentally ill and imploding its a zoo , They keep you on a ward if you get in minimum so you don't get worse , your only there to find you a med. If like me you do get in, your main goal in life is to never ever go back , this is UK mental health
From what I'm learning in school, European countries and the US have very different views regarding mental illness and care. In some ways Europe seems better, in some ways the US does. The culture is so different I can't imagine anyone coming to a real agreement on this issue.
  #150  
Old Mar 28, 2014, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by sewerrats View Post
If like me you do get in, your main goal in life is to never ever go back , this is UK mental health
Can absolutely second that one. IMHO the worst place for someone who is MI is in a UK psych ward. I was a voluntary patient, didn't stop the shrink nurse from dragging me out of my room to a therapy session I wasn't scheduled to attend. Also the idea of them being a safe place, that's a laugh. My blood pressure dropped really low (back to the original theme of this thread - a side effect of meds), I collapsed in a shower cubicle, no-one found me for three hours even though I was on 20 min sui-watch!

Going back to side effects, I admit I'm a bit of a martyr to side-effects, some are worth it though. When I first started Effexor, it was like the lights coming on and I felt amazing, even though I couldn't poo and I was farting and belching and couldn't sleep. I could live with that because I no longer felt crap. Anyhow, something changed, the Effexor stopped working, so my GP did the only thing that they can do in the UK and ramped up the dose (no drug combos or augmentation without a pdoc and pdocs don't see patients referred via GPs) and so ramped up the side effects, I was still prepared to put up with them because I wanted to feel good again. I didn't respond, so up went the dose and wham another new side effect - total loss of bladder control - very public - very humiliating and most definitely not tolerable. That particular s/e is listed as very rare <1:1000 and > 1:10,000 so I guess I was unlucky, and I've had this problem with other meds but never made the connection before.

When I started taking Effexor I checked out some of the reviews, without wanting to dismiss anyone's feelings out of hand, most of the complaints could easily be symptoms of depressive illness anyway, so I gave it a go. Despite my bad experience I wouldn't say the drug was bad, because it did work and does for many other people. What I would say though, is when a drug loses its effectiveness don't let the doc's keep on ramping up the doses.

Back to the pdoc issue, I got a referral to the community mental health team because my GP wanted advice on specialist prescribing. So I was seen by a bog standard shrink nurse who can't prescribe and didn't even know what TCAs are. She rolled up nearly an hour late to the assessment and hadn't read my referral letter, I'd had to sit in a locked waiting area all the while. After a lengthy assessment, she said "sorry, you're not psychotic and have no other risk factors, we can't see you". I had to ask about the prescribing and she said "Oh the pdoc won't see you in clinic for that". They wrote back to my GP and their advise was that if anti-depressants cause side-effects then stop taking them. Brilliant now what am I supposed to do? Incidentally, the NICE guidance is that moderate to severe depression should be treated with a combination of drugs and CBT and if several drugs have failed then a pdoc or specialist prescriber should consider other treatments or drug combos / augmentation. So I can't even get the treatment recommended by the NHS.

Thank you Sewerrats for giving me a thread where I could post such a massive self-centred rant.I hope that you'll forgive me.
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