[x123]

It seems that scopolamine makes my depression and brain fog go away instantly. Scopolamine affects acetylcholine. It is for motion sickness and is not approved for depression in the US yet. Several studies have shown that scopolamine is very effective for people who do not benefit from the serotonin antidepressants.

Several questions:

(1) Why hasn't scopolamine been approved for depression yet? Scopolamine is a very old motion sickness medication. Are there some dangers to scopolamine?

(2) Are there approved depression drugs that affect acetylcholine instead of serotonin?

(3) After I experimented with some leftover scopolamine patches for a couple of weeks, I noticed some changes, but I don't know if they were coincidence. So as I mentioned earlier, the scopolamine instantly made my depression and brain fog go away, but the patches only lasted three days. I stopped using the patches after a couple of weeks, because I wanted to save the remaining patches for emergency use. Then a week or so later some things changed that might have been coincidental. My libido had been practically non-existent for almost a year, but it suddenly went back to its previous level. I got sick with the flu (that may have been stress due to things in my life). I also had a breakthrough in therapy and suddenly saw a purpose to a life that I had basically written-off for the past 15 years. All my bitterness vanished. For several weeks I felt very sad and drained, but I also felt that my life was going to take a turn for the better now. I found that I could meditate almost effortlessly again where I had not been able to for several years. ... Then it all changed back to how it has been for the past year. My libido is non-existent. I don't feel as hopeful about my life. I feel cynical and unemotional. ... So I don't know if that was scopolamine or just a coincidence. I also worry about using scopolamine if it had such a dramatic affect on me. My brain must be really unbalanced chemically if such a common drug for motion sickness can do these things.

Any thoughts would be appreciated. I think I have some useful clues, but I don't know how to proceed from here. I am afraid of taking medications due to past experiences. Thanks.

(((hugs)))

[qwerty68]

I a lot of medication is used "off label", especially in psychiatry. I haven't heard of scopolamine being used for depression. All drugs have side-effects, here is one list.

Once a drug is approved by the FDA, most often drug companies don't want the added expense of getting it approved in another area. However, that doesn't mean that research stops, it is just research done elsewhere, including doctors offices.

There are anti-psychotics that are unapproved for depression but commonly used. I have read that SSRI's are being used off-label for some types of pain instead of opioids.

It certainly is worth talking to your doctor about. It might be helpful in finding a cause of your depression. Your experiences are interesting. Drugs like tricyclic meds actually inhibit acetylcholine, which scopolimine does so maybe it is not surprising it helped you.

[x123]

Originally Posted by qwerty68

I a lot of medication is used "off label", especially in psychiatry. I haven't heard of scopolamine being used for depression. All drugs have side-effects, here is one list.

Once a drug is approved by the FDA, most often drug companies don't want the added expense of getting it approved in another area. However, that doesn't mean that research stops, it is just research done elsewhere, including doctors offices.

There are anti-psychotics that are unapproved for depression but commonly used. I have read that SSRI's are being used off-label for some types of pain instead of opioids.

It certainly is worth talking to your doctor about. It might be helpful in finding a cause of your depression. Your experiences are interesting. Drugs like tricyclic meds actually inhibit acetylcholine, which scopolimine does so maybe it is not surprising it helped you.

Thanks, @qwerty68
I was not certain how scopolamine affected acetylcholine. I was thinking of trying to use vitamins or changes in diet to help my brain, but I wasn't certain what scopolamine did to the acetylcholine in the brain. One article seemed to suggest that scopolamine concentrated the acetylcholine in the frontal lobes and depleted it from the muscles? (or maybe I have it backwards).

Anyway, I tried another patch today. At first I was afraid that it no longer worked, but after an hour I suddenly felt like a heavy weight had been removed. I felt very hopeful and content and I got a lot more work done than normal. I felt more like being around other people and trying to be nice to them. In the past, the effect seems to diminish over the three days that the patch it used. I feel really, really good when I first apply a patch.

I have a doctor's appointment in a few weeks, and I will mention the scopolamine.

[x123]

I noticed that the scopolamine patches are most effective in the first couple of hours after applying them. They last for three days, but their antidepressant effect only lasts a day for me (maybe not even a day). I suspect that the brain reacts to the scopolamine and attempts to restore the previous equilibrium (which was depression unfortunately). So the patches keep delivering the scopolamine to sustain a certain concentration in my body, but the body learns to counteract the scopolamine and bring me back to my usual state of depression. I have also read that the patches deliver a fast dose at the beginning to load the person's body with scopolamine, but then they deliver a slow dose to sustain that concentration of scopolamine.

[x123]

Here is an article I found about the effect of scopolamine on acetylcholine in rats. It is especially interesting, because the effect peaks after 1 hour and dissipates in 3 hours. This is very close to what I observed when using myself as a human lab rat I felt great in a half hour or less. I had boundless energy. I wanted to find ways to make other people happy. I got lots of work done in no time at all. "Excuse me while I kiss the sky" might be a close description of how I felt. But it tailed-off in a few hours until I felt "normal" (i.e. depressed).

I have been wondering if this means I am missing some vitamin related to acetylcholine. Here is the article, but I don't understand what it means. I don't know if my response means I have too much acetylcholine or too little or not in the right brain regions or what. Maybe somebody can enlighten me?

The in vivo microdialysis technique was used to measure extracellular concentrations of acetylcholine (ACh) in the neostriatum (NS) and nucleus accumbens (NAc) of freely moving rats after intraperitoneal administration of the muscarinic receptor antagonist scopolamine (0.5 mg/kg) or vehicle. Simultaneously, behavior was monitored. The administration of scopolamine induced an increase in extracellular ACh levels in the NS, which reached a maximum of about 185% within one hour after injection and returned to baseline values about three hours after injection. In the NAc, an increase of similar time-course was observed; however, this increase reached a maximum of 250%, which was significantly higher than the one observed in NS. These changes in ACh levels were accompanied by enhanced locomotion, rearing and grooming; however, the behavioral changes were of shorter time-course than those of extracellular ACh.

Different effects of scopolamine on extracellular acetylcholine levels in neostriatum and nucleus accumbens measured in vivo: possible interaction ... - PubMed - NCBI

[qwerty68]

That is really interesting, makes me want to talk to my pdoc about it.

Even a couple hours of energy a week would be amazing.

[x123]

Originally Posted by qwerty68

That is really interesting, makes me want to talk to my pdoc about it.

Even a couple hours of energy a week would be amazing.

I don't know if I already mentioned a study where scopolamine helped people who were not responding to normal antidepressants. Two thirds of the people saw a benefit, and one third saw an apparently permanent remission of the depression - after only two weeks of scopolamine. Some people felt better the morning after starting the treatment.
NIMH » Rapid Antidepressant Action of Common Medication Confirmed by Repeat Trial

Let me know if you learn anything from your p-doc.

I also found this book, and I have ordered a copy. By filling-out a questionnaire, the reader can supposedly determine which neurotransmitters are too high and which are too low. With that information, a person can change diet, take supplements, etc.
The Edge Effect: Achieve Total Health and Longevity with the Balanced Brain Advantage by Eric R. Braverman ? Reviews, Discussion, Bookclubs, Lists