[darkrunner]

I had therapy tonight, and shortly into the session, I told my T that I had been thinking about something that she said last week, and that it had been bothering.

So she asked what, and I told her it was the comment she made about respecting my decision to not get better and terminating sessions.

I told her it scared me when she said that, and confused me, and made me feel like if I wasn't living up to her expectations she would just get rid of me, and that I was now afraid to be honest with her about some things.

She thanked me for telling her,
and she said it took a lot of courage to bring it up!
She took a while to 'explain' what she meant......which is that often her eating disorder clients tell her they feel like she is controlling them, and their "internal brat" comes out, and it becomes a battle of wills, where the clients dig in their heels and spiral downward because they are trying to maintain control over themselves.

This made a lot of sense to me...that she didn't want me to feel like she was controlling me.

I asked her if I thought, even in the cases where a client really doesn't want to give up the eating disorder (or alcohol, or drugs, etc), if it wasn't worthwhile to continue on in therapy to work on other issues until the willingness is there......she seemed to think about this for a while, but now that I think of it, she didn't really answer this point specifically.

But otherwise, she made me feel better about the whole thing.

And she even asked me how she could have worded it differently so that it didn't come off so threatening. She thanked me for bringing it up to her a couple of times, and said she is not perfect and that she appreciates when clients are honest with her about stuff like that because it helps her to be a better clinician.

So, I'm really happy I was able to bring it up, and I am satisfied with how it resolved.
And I have to thank everyone for your comments, and support and encouragement. If it weren't for everyone here, there is NO WAY I would have had enough courage.

[skeksi]

It's awesome that you were brave enough to bring it up, and that it could be pretty much resolved. What an excellent experience!

[googley]

KT-
That is wonderful. I'm glad you were able to talk this over and that the outcome was positive.

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by ktgirl

She took a while to 'explain' what she meant......which is that often her eating disorder clients tell her they feel like she is controlling them, and their "internal brat" comes out, and it becomes a battle of wills, where the clients dig in their heels and spiral downward because they are trying to maintain control over themselves.

Kt, this is so great that you brought it up and you all discussed it! Well done!!!

You know, the quote that I have up there ^, what she said doesn't sit well with me. The inner brat! It is my opinion that she needs to understand her ED clients a little better! It seems that she is the one who starts the power struggle. Her job is to support and help the client not to take over for them. I think that you could teach her a lot you know............

[jexa]

It sure takes guts to bring something like that up! I'm so glad your T listened and responded well to you, and especially that she thanked you and said hearing things like that makes her a better clinician.

That's definitely a good thing because I agree with Sannah:

Originally Posted by Sannah

what she said doesn't sit well with me. The inner brat!

She really used those words? It really just rings wrong to me.

[Dr.Muffin]

woohoo! score another point for team bravery!

[Dr.Muffin]

i dont think the inner brat is solely an ED phenomenon....ive seen it before. ive been it before! i guess the language didnt bother me much.

[darkrunner]

Thanks everyone!
It did feel good to bring it up and get my thoughts/feelings out in the open.

Originally Posted by Sannah

You know, the quote that I have up there ^, what she said doesn't sit well with me. The inner brat! It is my opinion that she needs to understand her ED clients a little better! It seems that she is the one who starts the power struggle. Her job is to support and help the client not to take over for them. I think that you could teach her a lot you know............

Jexa said:

She really used those words? It really just rings wrong to me

Sannah and Jexa,
I see what you mean here, and you're right, she probably could have used a more positive way to describe this. I guess it didn't bother me at the time, because when my kids and I get into a battle of wills - when it seems like they DON'T WANT to do something simply because I WANT THEM TO DO IT, they are being a little 'bratty'. And I think this was the dynamic my T was trying to describe.
But yeah, to label it that way probably isn't the best way to go.

[Sannah]

But the relationship between a parent and a child is different than the relationship between a therapist and a client. If the clinician is crossing over into that territory I don't think that that is good. Client empowerment!!!!

The "bratty" description doesn't bother me either. It is a precise description of a behavior, and a description we all "get" immediately. But my tdoc is not one to mince words. He says what he means. We are always picking on each other (good heartedly of course). We call 'em as we see 'em.

He's "threatenen" me with termination a couple of times, but I called him on it immediately. He explained to me that he really didn't mean for me to feel threatened. He was trying to get me to see that if I choose not to do was he says I need to do, why am I bothering to come to sessions? I'm just repeating the same behaviors over and over.

By the way, good job speaking up for yourself. Glad you talked it out.

ktgirl, it did take a lot of courage to bring that up - good for you, and good for T for acknowledging that! I"m glad you are happy with the resolution.

[Dr.Muffin]

Originally Posted by Sannah

But the relationship between a parent and a child is different than the relationship between a therapist and a client. If the clinician is crossing over into that territory I don't think that that is good. Client empowerment!!!!

in reality its not the same relationship, but with transference and attachment issues and limited re-parenting techniques....they are more alike than not. which is often necessary.

[sittingatwatersedge]

Originally Posted by almostDr.Muffin

in reality it [parent/child, therapist/client] is not the same relationship, but with transference and attachment issues and limited re-parenting techniques....they are more alike than not. which is often necessary.

woo, my head spins. What a convoluted system. I tried to think my way through my therapy relationship this week and got so bogged down that I gave up - for now - and for me, that's something.

[BlueMoon6]

KT- I am SO incredibly proud of you! Isnt PC so helpful? You did a great job being honest. Do you feel closer to your t b/c of your honesty?

The inner brat stuff feels judgemental to me. If it is a battle of wills or a power struggle, nothing wrong with calling it so. But the brat thing brings up feelings of being judged as "immature" or "manipulative" which may or may not be the case. I think other words might be more specific and might pinpoint the difficulty better than name-calling. But that is just me.

Anyway, I think you did amazing work. It isnt easy to do! GO YOU!

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by almostDr.Muffin

in reality its not the same relationship, but with transference and attachment issues and limited re-parenting techniques....they are more alike than not. which is often necessary.

I can see how it turns out that way with transference BUT I think the clinician needs to stop before continuing on and telling the client what to do. IMO client empowerment is the only way to go. By entering into a power struggle with the client nothing is achieved. Power struggles in parenting are ridiculous. By empowering the client sssoooooo much more will be achieved............

[Dr.Muffin]

Originally Posted by Sannah

I can see how it turns out that way with transference BUT I think the clinician needs to stop before continuing on and telling the client what to do. IMO client empowerment is the only way to go. By entering into a power struggle with the client nothing is achieved. Power struggles in parenting are ridiculous. By empowering the client sssoooooo much more will be achieved............

right. and that seems EXACTLY what her therapist was doing, stopping and trying to avoid the power struggle. what you saw as a threat, the therapist saw as the ultimate in client empowerment....the choice belonged to the client. the therapist is NOT going to try and force you to give up something youre not ready to give up and if therapy isnt right at this time you can pick up later when you are ready.

[SpottedOwl]

(((ktgirl)))

Yay! You did excellent work! I'm so proud of you for taking that risk, speaking so clearly and being so understanding.

Originally Posted by ktgirl

I asked her if I thought, even in the cases where a client really doesn't want to give up the eating disorder (or alcohol, or drugs, etc), if it wasn't worthwhile to continue on in therapy to work on other issues until the willingness is there......she seemed to think about this for a while, but now that I think of it, she didn't really answer this point specifically.

The way you approached this is very respectful. Even though she didn't specifically answer it, I think you probably planted a seed in her mind that she will continue to think about. Given what she said about how sometimes ED clients will engage in a power struggle...it seems like this question is very relevant. If the client feels like he/she has no choice about what to talk about, perhaps that also becomes part of the power struggle?

If it weren't for everyone here, there is NO WAY I would have had enough courage.

We all need help and support and love, but just remember that YOU alone sat in that room and had that talk. That courage you found, was sitting right there inside of you. Remember how it felt, and you can call that courage back anytime you need it.

[WePow]

WOW!!!! This is so awesome to read! That did take a T O N of courage!!!!! Good for you!

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by almostDr.Muffin

if therapy isnt right at this time you can pick up later when you are ready.

A different kind of therapy is right at that time, figuring out what is behind the behavior not telling them do it this way or leave...........

[ECHOES]

Could I suggest you 2 continue this in a PM or a separate thread?

[Dr.Muffin]

Originally Posted by Sannah

A different kind of therapy is right at that time, figuring out what is behind the behavior not telling them do it this way or leave...........

i dont necessarily agree with that. maybe a different type of therapy is right at that time, maybe not. if there's nothing that this particular therapist feels capable of doing differently, then i would advocate for NOT wasting a client's time and money. if you dont feel like im working, then by all means free yourself.

edit: just saw echoes post. if you want to PM me feel free, if not, dont.

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by farmergirl

He's "threatenen" me with termination a couple of times, but I called him on it immediately. He explained to me that he really didn't mean for me to feel threatened. He was trying to get me to see that if I choose not to do was he says I need to do, why am I bothering to come to sessions?

I really disagree with this approach to therapy. I do not think the therapist should be telling the client what to do. I believe the client should guide therapy and at the very least, therapy should be a team effort. If my T tried to tell me what to do, I might boot him out the door (whoops, wait, it's his office). On my first day of therapy, my T told me, "only you know what you need to heal." I have take that to heart and been our guide. My T doesn't know what I need--he's not a mind reader. I need to tell him and he helps. One time my T did try telling me what to do and it was something I was not ready for at all. I asked him why do you want me to say and do this thing? It would be a lie if I said this like you want me to. Do you want me to lie? He backed down pretty quick and said I wasn't ready for this yet and no, he didn't want me to lie. I will not do something that is inauthentic or a lie or is not right for me just because the T says so. Fortunately, most of the suggestions my T has (and my last T too) are in line with my own beliefs, so I have not had this conflict often.

ktgirl, you had such a good discussion with your T. You didn't let her comment about termination push you away but discussed it in a very respectful and adult way and got new clarity. That is worthy of gold stars on so many levels! I wonder if she will be on board with you working on other issues until you are ready to work on the ED? I think you gave her some good food for thought. Maybe you will return to this discussion again and she will be ready to give you an answer.

[~Blossom~]

Quote:
Originally Posted by farmergirl
He's "threatenen" me with termination a couple of times, but I called him on it immediately. He explained to me that he really didn't mean for me to feel threatened. He was trying to get me to see that if I choose not to do was he says I need to do, why am I bothering to come to sessions?

Farmergirl: This sounds manipulative to me....Maybe I just don't know enought about the situation, but in my perception, it sounds almost passive-agressive to threaten termination for your 'non-compliance'. Maybe more time could be spent figuring out why you "choose not to do what he says"? What are your unconscious motivations? What's stopping you? Is it some sort of self-sabatoge? etc.

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by almostDr.Muffin

if there's nothing that this particular therapist feels capable of doing differently, then i would advocate for NOT wasting a client's time and money. if you dont feel like im working, then by all means free yourself.

Sorry Echoes.......... Then the therapist needs to tell the client this, that they cannot help them.

Clients do not know what they are missing or how things should be, so I think that it is difficult for a client to "free" themselves.

Dr. Muffin, I have an MSW that I do not use right now professionally (I am a stay at home mom) and I still go to conferences to maintain my license (and I volunteer at a school to help kids who are behind socially or academically). I have learned more on this website from the client's point of view over the last few years than I think that I could ever learn in 20 years of schooling from the clinician's point of view.

[darkrunner]

Originally Posted by sunrise

ktgirl, you had such a good discussion with your T. You didn't let her comment about termination push you away but discussed it in a very respectful and adult way and got new clarity. That is worthy of gold stars on so many levels! I wonder if she will be on board with you working on other issues until you are ready to work on the ED? I think you gave her some good food for thought. Maybe you will return to this discussion again and she will be ready to give you an answer.

Thank you Sunrise!

I think the conversation in this thread is interesting, and I can really see both sides of the issue. I'm not sure which perspective I agree with, but....looking at the issue from the client's perspective, and from a purely emotional place.......I kind of think that any kind of threatened termination or actual termination ultimately does not benefit the client.
If my T had actually terminated me, I wonder...what would I have done? I don't know if I would have had the strength to find a new T and start over (again). I think I probably would have lost hope, gone further into the eating disorder, and abandoned the idea of resolving the trauma issues. These can't be good things!
I truly do understand the frustration of any T who is working with an unwilling client......but isn't the fact that a client come to therapy regularly evidence in itself that the client wants to become healthy? - even if it's only a tiny part......
IDK - just my .02.