How do you know you are or aren't just Ts "job"

I think OMERS hit the nail on the head.

We are a job. If you had no more money for along time, your T would not continue to treat you. If you did something against her/his boundaries consistently where T felt threatened or in danger, T would not continue to treat you.

There are several blogs out there by clinical psychologists who clearly describe going to work with troubled patients and "closing the door" so they can go home and be with their family, have dinner, help with homework, etc. Their life.

Many of you want more than that from your T and the reality is most decent people care about humans who are in pain. A T has a job to help you get through it.

Well, yes, it is their job, but being a job doesn't mean they care any less. I spend a lot of my free time moderating at another mental health web site. I'm also studying to become a therapist. Something that I sometimes struggle with is becoming very attached to the people we are supporting on the site. This is something that I understand I will need to work very hard to balance. Balancing wouldn't mean that you don't care and feel very deeply for those you might be treating. Of course you would. You would just have to keep from taking on their pain and becoming enmeshed with their struggles. I can honestly say that I've grown to truly care about those who I am supporting. Of course, I'm far from being a therapist yet, but I'm just as human as anyone who might already be. There's warmth and love and caring out there. We all need a paycheck to get by in life. That wouldn't mean that a therapist can't recognize the humanity of others or even grow to love their clients. Therapy relationships are different, but unique can also be quite beautiful. I know mine was and always will be.

o know i'm late i just saw the thread, but i don't care if i'm just a job, as long as my pdoc does a convincingly job and making me think she cares than thats all i need. if i want someone to care for me and or love me that's what my best friend partner is for and i don't have to pay him for that

My T told me today that I am not just her "job". I knew that already, though. Yes, she wants me to feel safe and happy in my life and not to depend on her, but I am more than just "her job" to her.

Did you ask her if you ran out of money and would never be able to afford her again, would she still see you as a client?

Or if you continually did something that broke her trust or scared her, would she still see you as a client?

Continuing to believe you mean more to a T than reality, keeps you and others stuck in your issues. You are a paycheck to your T, who yes is a decent, caring person; but her job is to treat people. You are paying for a service.

It's not that they don't care, they care within the boundaries of their job, like a teacher, a doctor, a pastor, etc. But their caring has limits and boundaries.

Poet, I think we all know that their caring has limits and boundaries. It's true that we are paying for a service. But why must you repeatedly attempt to destroy the good feelings that some of us derive from our relationships with our T's?

I have been in both those situations you suggested that Rainbow should ask her T about. I didn't scare my T but that's because after being a T for over 30 years, he doesn't scare easily. I did, however, break his trust many times and yes, he did continue to see me even though he was forced to set limits that he wouldn't have set otherwise. He understood that many of my behaviors were so chronic that it would take a long time to get them under control and he was willing to make that commitment to me as long as I didn't physically attack him. He has also continued to see me despite the fact that due to a medicaid/medicare problem, he has only been receiving a partial payment for each session since last January. He sees me twice a week, and he could have refused to see me until the problem was corrected, or he could have seen me less frequently so that he could add another patient at his full rate. But when I asked him why he didn't do either of those things he told me it wouldn't be fair to hold me responsible for something that was clearly not my fault, and he decided that his commitment to me was more important than the money he was losing.

Yes, Poet, some T's DO go out of their way to help us because they care that much about us.

I don't believe that answering the two questions you posted has any bearing on this at all. And of course, there are limits and boundaries. I don't believe that's in question either. It seems as though you are angry, that something is stirred up for you, and I'm curious to know what that's about.

I don't know why he does it but I suspect that he reasons that enslaving yourself to a paid professional is not healthy.

Our therapy is about ourselves. When there is no judgment, but rather self-awareness, this is an excellent place to learn about ourselves. We're relating with our therapists and learning about how we relate to others. We're learning about how to confront our fears and face ourselves. We're learning healthier ways to cope and relate. Love is boundless and good feelings bring joy. If they are there, why judge those feelings? Why not learn from them and simply accept and enjoy them?

I imagine this type of behavior could end any relationship.

Reality exists between each individual and within each therapeutic alliance. I had a close relationship with my former therapist and have been out for more than 2 years now. Still love him. That relationship and its closeness propelled me forward in life. It was life-changing really...I'm so grateful.

Again, this is true in any relationship. I always had full understanding of the boundaries within the T relationship, but that understanding did not prevent me from the intimate closeness within those boundaries.

Poet, where is the anger coming from and what does it mean? I hate that triggered feeling too, but that feeling usually means our reaction has to do with something inside ourselves. I'm sorry this discussion has been upsetting to you.

Just to add to this.. I am still in touch with my old T from before I moved. I haven't paid her in well over a year and we speak/email often. She definitely cares.

My ex T was definitely not in it for the money. She and her husband were obscenely well off. She did not have to work at all.
I (and a small group of other clients) started seeing her at a community clinic for youth. Before we neared the cut off age for the clinic she opened up her own private practice and continued our treatment at the community clinic fee. (It was never said at the time that she was doing it so she could continue to see me and the others, but looking back now I wonder if it was. It never occurred to me at the time that I would be kicked out of the community clinic once I passed the upper age limit! She was lucky enough to have the financial means to make the move into private practice). All up I saw her for about 8 years, for two 90 minute sessions per week (minus her frequent overseas holidays.)
I stopped seeing her about 12 years ago now, I guess. After having a period of 8 years or so with no contact (apart from one email) I now have regular, but not frequent, email contact with her again. A couple of years ago I also visited her current country and had the opportunity to see her for four sessions during my visit. I could only afford one session at her current rate, but she asked me to come in for four sessions for the price of one, saying she didn't want money to be a barrier between us being able to see each other again after such a long time.

Anyway... she wasn't and isn't in it for the money, and there is no doubt in my mind at all that she cares deeply about me, and her other clients, past and present.
There is simply no doubt she cares. No doubt at all.
Althoughhhhhhh... I couldn't have said that DURING the time I was in therapy with her!!! It is only in retrospect that I can truly appreciate the depth of her gifts to me.

I think it pretty easy to tell if a therapist is just "phoning it in" versus when they are engaged, invested and working on your therapy.

By and large I would say 90%+ of therapist care about their clients and work on their treatment. It's just not, in my opinion, the kind of profession where people are in it just as a job.

I asked my therapist how he stood just listening to people's problems all day long.

His response - "Is that all you think I do?"

When I said "actually no, it isn't, I guess what I meant is how are you able to engage people and their problems"

He then replied that it felt like home to him. Helping.

I would like to directly address the "it's all make believe". On my side of the therapeutic relationship, the way I feel is very very real. It's valid and legitimate to me. There is no right or wrong, fake or made up. It's real.

Therapy is a place to express those very real and very valid feelings, ferret out why I may feel that way, and develop tools to cultivate or elminate actions based on those feelings.

Of course there are therapeutic contructs that the therapist uses to help me get to those feelings. These are necessary I think because there is another person in the room and that barrier between persons has to be overcome.

Just as a good hostess will prepare her home to make guests feel welcome, invited and comfortable in a foreign environment, a good therapist will help me to feel the same. There is a difference between manipulation and facilitation.

Perhaps it all hinges on intent. I do not think that my therapist uses these constucts, his training and his skills for any other reason other than to help me. It's not like he's trying to make me comfortable and then - wham! hurt me in some way. There is nothing evil lurking behind that comfortable facade. Just a willful intent on his part to help me make my life better.

Nothing fake about that.

thanks!

I think that a lot. That my T just "cares" because it's her job. I think it's my trust issues. I'm sure she really cares, it's just hard to believe sometimes. I really like my T, don't get me wrong. My old T, she would forget our appointments, show up late, or forget that I was sitting in the waiting room. Don't think she really cared. Never EVER answered her phone or called back either. And I"m not someone to call all the time. If I call my T, it's because it's a life or death situation, and she knew that. Maybe the experience with her makes it so hard for me to believe someone actually cares.

I find it interesting that because I present a different side, everyone thinks I am angry.

FYI: I have had T's see me for reduced price, I have had T's see me for free, and I have a T now that I speak with weekly for nothing.

But the truth of the matter is, even though in each of those relationships the T "cared" ALOT, it is still factual that the T's are doing a job --- a job to help me heal and get well.

I use the $$ arguement because it is the easiest. In most instances, T's will not continue to see a client for along period of time if they have no $$. Because T's need to have income to survive. Go read some student psychology boards and see how concerned they are if they will make enough money to survive. The JOB is not lucrative, so they need paying clients.

The other arguements are things like your T does not call when you are sick, your T does not want to have contact with you outside the therapy space, the T does not call you unless you call them, etc... these are all indicators that their caring is constrained by the JOB.

I think many of you need to ask what happens if you realize your T cares as a JOB? What then?
Some of you have families and husbands and kids and etc.....maybe if you were to stop focusing so much on your T trying to "care" about you, you might focus on the wonderful relationships you have outside of T and how to heal those, especially if you have been in therapy for years without improvement or with the same symptoms.

I just present a different side. It seems that most here have been here for along time and the same people post constantly. Without differences, there is not questioning the process.

I do sense a lot of anger in your posts. Perhaps it is the capitalized words that makes it seem as if you are yelling. I might well be projecting that you're angry. Wouldn't be the first time. My point being that I've always 100% understood the nature of the relationship, but still experienced a close bond with my former therapist that was and always will be special to me. I don't think it ever took away from my loving others, I think it has helped me to love others more deeply and freely. I don't think there are bounds on love. It is endless really. At any rate, I certainly respect your opinion.

I know I'm not "just a job" to T. Granted, being a T IS her job, and she gets paid for it. But there is no way someone would choose to be a T, especially a DBT T, if they weren't getting more out of it than money.

How do I know I'm more than just a job? There are so many ways. She told me "I care about you a great deal", she answers my phone calls and emails and texts, she lets me contact her as much as I "need to or want to".

Ugh. I'm finding this strangely upsetting, I wonder why? I don't like the idea of having to justify my feelings or thoughts about my relationship with T.

I agree with Kacey that the therapeutic relationship is like no other, but that doesn't make it any less real.

Can you please give me the links to the boards you have in mind?

I don't have much response but I love the way you said this and I actually agree with most of it. While I think most of your arguments are really valid, I also think they will continue to encourage a polarized response. The reality (and yes, this is something I learned in therapy) is that something can be two things. Not everything is or isn't - and this applies to therapy and therapists. For example - ice cream can be both sweet and savory at the same time (whoa!), a dog can simultaneously have soft and wirey hair (no way dude!?) and a therapist might not invite you over for dinner but that doesn't really mean they don't want to. My 2c.

and before anyone else says it.. no, it doesn't necessarily mean they want to either....

It is interesting to me that some people (your post is just one example, The Poet, and just happened to be convenient to quote) think a T cannot care and provide therapy as a job. I think many Ts do both. Why are they seen by some as mutually exclusive? My T provides therapy to me as his job. My T also cares about me. They both occur.

What do you think would happen? Do you believe people would be devastated? Upset? Is that what happened to you? Perhaps many do realize what you say and have experienced personal growth, healing, increased competence at building relationships and satisfaction with spouses, kids, lovers, etc. Those are good things.

You seem really invested in proving something here--providing arguments, etc. What's that all about?

It may just seem like that is a focus because you are reading in this thread, but you may be misled. I think people are just posting a lot about that in this thread because that was Rainbow's topic. If you go to other threads, you will find discussion focused on other topics.

I don't see the discussion as polarizing as you see it and in fact have found it puzzling when people try to align on "sides". I like the sweet/savory ice cream analogy given by mightaswelllive. A therapist can provide therapy and can care. Both are possible simultaneously. My T sometimes talks of instances like this. Like we talked once of how celebration can be sad. He says some people have chronic difficulties understanding how things can be two seemingly contradictory things at once. It is a certain style of thinking.

In reading all of these posts, I am sensing there is may be a disconnect in how people are interpreting the word 'care.'

In a general sense, it seems logical that all therapists 'care' in the way that a doctor, dentist, surgeon, or any health care professional would care.

I could be wrong, but I think the people who are objecting may be taking issue with the idea that T's care in a different way - in a more personal way, in a more intimate way.

I also think that it is pretty useless to generalize any of this to a whole profession of individuals. I personally know someone who is a therapist, who really doesn't care except ina general professional sense. If she won the lottery tomorrow, she would jump at the chance to quit. I could go on with a lot more details of the things she has told me, but I don't want to upset people. My point is, that just because SHE is this way, doesn't say anything about the way YOUR therapist is. And just because YOUR therapist is a certain way, doesn't mean every therapist is also that way.

I am also having difficulty with what exactly people mean by "care". I am not even sure what I mean by it when I say it. I did accuse my therapist once of not caring, though I am not sure what exactly my expectation of her was. Her response though was that she "cares very much about" *me*. She didn't say about her job which I know she does care about, she said about me. Yet I did not believe her, I felt she responded this way because that is what she thought I wanted to hear and that is what was necessary to create rapport at a moment where there was a clear disconnect between us. So I do think she cares about her patients in the sense that she wants to help them, she wants to provide them with the necessary support to be able to resolve their problems, in other words she cares about doing her job and I think that is all anyone can really ask and/or hope for.

Darkrunner, my T said "If I won the lottery, I would still have my private practice."
I do think that it really depends on the T.