[sittingatwatersedge]

The very first thing T told me yesterday was that the Ts in the group she works for had had their monthly meeting and a new policy was announced:

Starting immediately, no more hugs. Period.



I thanked her for telling me like that instead of saying no to the next one, that was very helpful; I asked if it was hard for her to have to tell all her clients this and she told me that there are not many of them that she does hug but I'm one of them so she was telling me.

She said, they told us it was permissible to shake hands (I thought, gee, thanks). So at end of session she held up her hand, as if for a high 5. I put my palm against hers, we closed our fingers over each other's hand, and I held her hand against my cheek.

This is pitiful folks, what is the deal with the hug. It never got in the way of our therapy.

[WePow]

WTF !!!!! OMG !!! Someone talked to the Ts again!!!
Don't they know how this can cause harm! Come one! I am so sorry.
If my T does this, I will never go back. Period. I could not handle that.

I am so sorry. But very glad you got to hold your Ts hand a little :-) That would be more contact with my T than our very very very brief safe hug!!!

Uggggg - wake up Ts! I can see it if a client has issues that you need to work around. But taking away that contact once it is there because of some policy just hurts people.

[Suratji]

SAWE - I am so sorry. You and Poetgirl are just being slammed lately. Yes, what IS it with the hugs? I think therapists are just so confused themselves that they're just going in circles trying to figure out the right thing to do. At least we can give them credit for that - they ARE trying to do what's best whether we agree with their decisions or not.

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by sittingatwatersedge

The very first thing T told me yesterday was that the Ts in the group she works for had had their monthly meeting and a new policy was announced...

Who makes policy in this organization?

[SpiritRunner]

OMG.....I am sorry! ((((((SAWE)))))) This makes me want to cry all over again, it hurts to think about!
But at least you got the handshake .......I get nothing, ever ever ever again, not even a pat on the shoulder or a handshake, which I would be delighted with.
The big deal, you know what it is?! It is called ethics......as my T said about the safety contract too. I may be in no true suicidal state but the contract is for HER protection too as much as mine, so that it is on record that she did the right thing and won't be ethically questioned about how she dealt with the situation if something did happen (which it won't)......and this no hug thing is just as much for HER protection too as mine. Except yes, giving and then taking away is a very harmful thing even if ethics can be (theoretically justifiably) placed on it as a reasonable explanation....being ethical is great, yes, but sometimes what is ethical is not necessarily what is in the client's best interests (ie, that taking away hugs may be ethical to do, but is it really right and helpful and in a client's best interests to take away something like that?! what is ethical is not always just or merciful or compassionate to do......)

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When I saw the title of this thread with your name under it, I thought there had been some kind of PC mixup...that somehow Poetgirl's thread had your name under it all of a sudden.

I can't believe that your T is also instituting a "no hugs" policy. I would need a VERY BIG explanation if that happened...like, was some client suing? Where did this COME from?

It sounds like your T genuinely cares and was genuinely concerned. I love the contact she gave you at the end...it felt like she was saying "there may be no more hugs, but I still love you".

I'm sorry, sawe.

<- unlimited hugs from me

[sittingatwatersedge]

I didn't press her for details but I have a feeling they are concerned with a legality issue, now or in future. She said something about, 99% of the time there's no problem with it at all, but it's that 1% that can cause a problem. But the room was moving around a little at that moment), so I am not really clear on what she said.

Well,............................... if that's their rule so be it. Pity she can't "grandfather" me in on it though (nice idea, WePow, thanks ) Welre good, the only problem ever between T and me is my anger "issues"

[mixedup_emotions]

You're taking this very well, SAWE....It's good that you know that it's not about you and that your T really does care, as much as it hurts to take away something so soothing.

This makes me feel relieved that my T never gives hugs, because it would be so gut-wrenchingly painful to have something and then have it taken away.

[rainbow8]

I'm sorry, SAWE. It does seem weird, like when a bunch of our Ts decided to change email rules a while back! I wonder if they decided touching could lead to lawsuits against Ts? Maybe this happened and they got scared? I don't think this is at all the same as with poetgirl, though. My former T told me she wouldn't hug me because of my BPD which really doesn't make sense. I know she thought I wouldn't be able to handle hugs, but she was wrong.

It sounds so nice that you could touch hands, though, and put her hand on your cheek. She let you do that. Maybe hugs are too much of bodies touching? Yes, it does sound like you are okay with this new policy. I hope it doesn't carry over to other Ts though!!

[sittingatwatersedge]

those of you who read my posts may remember that my T has a wall clock that has been out of order for four months now.

Our friends at http://www.cafepress.com , which carries Wounded Genius' brilliant cartoons in t-shirts, etc, also have a line of terrific clocks at extremely reasonable prices.
Think I might pick up one for T's office?

"Who needs a hug?"
"Pardon me while I go hug a tree" (not you Treehouse, there's a drawing of an actual tree)
"Have you huggd a Counselor lately?"

and my fave
"Kiss me, I'm a psychotherapist" (and a big lipstick print)

of course I am KIDDING.........

[Suratji]

Irvin D. Yalom, M.D. who is a renowned psychiatrist and psychotherapist and has written many textbooks on psychotherapy has written,

"Don't be afraid of touching your patient."

In his book, "The Gift of Therapy; An Open Letter to a New Generation of Therapists and Their Patients", he writes, "I make a point to touch each patient each hour - a handshake, a clasp of the shoulder, usually at the end of the hour as I accompany the patient to the door. If a patient wants to hold my hand longer or wants a hug, I refuse only if there is some compelling reason - for example, concerns about sexual feelings."

" But, whatever the contact, I make a point to debrief at the next session - perhaps something as simple as: 'Mary, our last hour ended differently - you held on to my hand with both of yours for a long time [or 'you asked for a hug']. It seemed to me you were feeling something strongly. What can you remember of it?'"

"Do touch. But make sure the touch becomes grist for the interpersonal mill."

Yalom then offers a few stories about touching and then he ends the chapter with this paragraph:

"... a widow who was in such despair that she often came to my office too distressed to speak, but was deeply comforted sheerly by my holding her hand. Much later she remarked that it was a turning point in therapy; it had grounded her and allowed her to feel connected to me. My hand, she said, was ballast preventing her from drifting up and away into despair."

These quotes came from chapter 63; pages 187-190

[SpiritRunner]

Originally Posted by Suratji

Irvin D. Yalom, M.D. who is a renowned psychiatrist and psychotherapist and has written many textbooks on psychotherapy has written,

"Don't be afraid of touching your patient."

In his book, "The Gift of Therapy; An Open Letter to a New Generation of Therapists and Their Patients", he writes, "I make a point to touch each patient each hour - a handshake, a clasp of the shoulder, usually at the end of the hour as I accompany the patient to the door. If a patient wants to hold my hand longer or wants a hug, I refuse only if there is some compelling reason - for example, concerns about sexual feelings."

" But, whatever the contact, I make a point to debrief at the next session - perhaps something as simple as: 'Mary, our last hour ended differently - you held on to my hand with both of yours for a long time [or 'you asked for a hug']. It seemed to me you were feeling something strongly. What can you remember of it?'"

"Do touch. But make sure the touch becomes grist for the interpersonal mill."

Yalom then offers a few stories about touching and then he ends the chapter with this paragraph:

"... a widow who was in such despair that she often came to my office too distressed to speak, but was deeply comforted sheerly by my holding her hand. Much later she remarked that it was a turning point in therapy; it had grounded her and allowed her to feel connected to me. My hand, she said, was ballast preventing her from drifting up and away into despair."

These quotes came from chapter 63; pages 187-190

should I show this to my T?! this is precisely how I really felt about her hugs - that they were grounding, that they were like ballast, that they were like safety and security, and a surety of the connection!

[Perna]

I'm glad my T was in private practice and not a group. Groups are lousy at making individual decisions?

[Suratji]

Originally Posted by poetgirl76

should I show this to my T?! this is precisely how I really felt about her hugs - that they were grounding, that they were like ballast, that they were like safety and security, and a surety of the connection!

I thought it might be something to show your T. That's why I mentioned the author, title of book and page numbers.

Irvin Yalom is Professor Emeritus of Psychiatry at Stanford University so he's no slouch when it comes to psychotherapy issues.

[sunrise]

SAWE, I'm sorry for this withdrawal of hugs. One thing I really don't like about it is the "one size fits all" approach. There may indeed be clients for whom hugs are not a good idea. And then there are those for whom the touch is very therapeutic--like the despairing widow in the Yalom quote. I think therapists should be trusted to be competent and to be able to make those judgments about their clients for themselves.

"I make a point to touch each patient each hour - a handshake, a clasp of the shoulder, usually at the end of the hour as I accompany the patient to the door. If a patient wants to hold my hand longer or wants a hug, I refuse only if there is some compelling reason - for example, concerns about sexual feelings." --Yalom

If one day my T suddenly told me that we could not hug anymore, I would interpret it as Yalom wrote, that he had for some reason decided I was feeling sexual about him. It would feel really yucky to have him sexualize the relationship like that (is that what you think this is about, T?). It would feel very unjust, because that is not the case. I'm not sure our relationship would survive it. It would show how little he understood me and our relationship. I am so glad I am not in that situation.

I know that's different than your case, SAWE, and yours sounds very painful. But your posts also sound like you are handling it very well. The hands thing sounded nice...

[BlackCanary]

wacky wacky wacky!
My first T had a no hug rule but he did shake my hand goodbye each week. It was pretty formal, however, never let me feel the connection like yours did. Good for her!

[Dani]

I'm glad that your T explained it to you, but I personally would feel bad if my T told me this after already giving me the occasional hug when I need it. I think Ts should be up front about it when you first start therapy to avoid the feeling of rejection when they say no more.

[ECHOES]

sawe, I am sorry
How come they don't let US vote?

[sittingatwatersedge]

well, I told T that my feelings about the new "no hugs" rule go much deeper than I had thought. I even told her about waking up with the memory of that pathetic scene from the movie "Dumbo" in which he's separated from his mother by iron bars and they try to work some kind of comfort in spite of it.

Bottom line: this new rule was imposed on T and she is not going to bend it or even ask about grandfathering in anyone no matter how long the relationship
and so, I will just stuff how I feel about it, since it won't change that is all I can do about it.

I must say that T was just delighted with the transference of the Dumbo thing, and wanted to talk about that for a long time. The more we went into it, the more shame I felt, and the happier she seemed to be about how humiliated I obvioously felt in having recognized it for what it was, and then telling her about it anyway. "this is a good thing." she said.
Is this courage? It was dreadful. And to my shame was added frustration at seeing her so amused, so breezy happy about it, not at all aknowledging how awful I was feeling.
And all I can do about THAT would be to bring it up again next time - if I want to go through feeling ashamed and humiliated all over again. I hate therapy.

[WePow]

(((((((((((Sitting)))))))))))))) My heart breaks for you. This is not right that you are being left in this unhealthy place.

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by sittingatwatersedge

Bottom line: this new rule was imposed on T and she is not going to bend it or even ask about grandfathering in anyone no matter how long the relationship
and so, I will just stuff how I feel about it, since it won't change that is all I can do about it.

So your T is happy about having this rule imposed on her?

The only thing you can do is stuff your feelings? No other options are possible?

I must say that T was just delighted with the transference of the Dumbo thing, and wanted to talk about that for a long time. The more we went into it, the more shame I felt, and the happier she seemed to be about how humiliated I obvioously felt...

I detect some possible "cognitive distortions" here... even though they must serve some purpose in making you feel better, temporarily.

OK, I'm outta here.

[sittingatwatersedge]

Pachy, responses like this are reasons for people to leave PC.

Originally Posted by sittingatwatersedge

And to my shame was added frustration at seeing her so amused, so breezy happy about it, not at all aknowledging how awful I was feeling.
And all I can do about THAT would be to bring it up again next time - if I want to go through feeling ashamed and humiliated all over again. I hate therapy.

Oh, sawe, how painful. It would have felt so much better if she had expressed her understanding of how hard it was, or had shared that it's hard for her too...instead of "yay! what a great therapeutic opportunity!"

I do hope you will bring up what it felt like to be misattuned like that. It's important.

Be gentle with you. It won't feel this awful forever.

[rainbow8]

I'm sorry T didn't understand your feelings, SAWE. It sounds awful! I know it's hard but I think you just have to TELL her she missed the boat with you. Can you email or call instead of waiting until your next session?

[Liam Grey]

Originally Posted by poetgirl76

OMG.....I am sorry! ((((((SAWE)))))) This makes me want to cry all over again, it hurts to think about!
But at least you got the handshake .......I get nothing, ever ever ever again, not even a pat on the shoulder or a handshake, which I would be delighted with.

But that's cruel! I didn't realize she took away even the handshake from you !

I'll be honest... I usually just handshake my T when I left, sometimes she just pat my back and plus we share a small, innocent kiss on the cheek when we part for a long time (like summer vacation).. so she never hugged me or such in therapy (nor that I asked). But if she'll ever took this little contacts away.. well, I think I would be DONE forever with her. I would just leave.

I HAVE to believe that, leaving out the fact that I pay to be listened, there's some real relationship there. I can partially understand the hugs, but no touch at all... seems so "alien" to me. So aseptic.

Of course... with this post I don't want to make things more difficult for you or for SAWE... it's just my simple perspective of the things.