Just what my therapist said last night. She said if she had no friends, no realationship and no job that she'd want to kill herself. She was saying in relation to my current life situation.

I tried to reiterate to her that yes, while my life certainly isn't great, there's people out there with terminal cancer, there's people disabled etc...

I just think what she said was absolutely disgraceful from a person who deals with people with mental health problems to come out with such crap. She's more or less saying if she was in my situation she'd think about ending it. That hardly makes me feel over the moon, though if I'm honest I'm more annoyed by her saying such a stupid thing then depressed.

It's make me wonder if she's competent enough. I think there's certain things you don't say to a patient and that's one of them.

Soundfs like in trying to understand you, she's underestimated you. I'd be very taken aback hearing that!

[WePow]

Let her know how this comment made you feel. I agree with earthmamma that there may be a whole lot more to you than your T is able to see right now for some reason.
Be frank. Let her know how this sounded from your chair.

[Chopin99]

Originally Posted by so80

Just what my therapist said last night. She said if she had no friends, no realationship and no job that she'd want to kill herself. She was saying in relation to my current life situation.

I tried to reiterate to her that yes, while my life certainly isn't great, there's people out there with terminal cancer, there's people disabled etc...

I just think what she said was absolutely disgraceful from a person who deals with people with mental health problems to come out with such crap. She's more or less saying if she was in my situation she'd think about ending it. That hardly makes me feel over the moon, though if I'm honest I'm more annoyed by her saying such a stupid thing then depressed.

It's make me wonder if she's competent enough. I think there's certain things you don't say to a patient and that's one of them.

I think what she said was extremely inappropriate. I don't think she was being deliberately hurtful, but she certainly couldn't have been thinking too much when she said that. Next session, tell her exactly how that comment made her feel. My T (not thinking) said something to me I had previously told her was triggering. Next session I told her NEVER to do that again!!!!

[skysblue]

No wonder you believe attachment to a T is not helpful or necessary. If I had a T like that I would be devastated. That's terrible what she said. You may be right that she's not competent. Still, you should point out to her your thoughts about this and find out if she has any kind of rational explanation of what she said.

[Perna]

Originally Posted by so80

She's more or less saying if she was in my situation she'd think about ending it. That hardly makes me feel over the moon, though if I'm honest I'm more annoyed by her saying such a stupid thing then depressed.

Why is how your T feels "stupid"? Why are you worried about what your T is doing, feeling, saying more than what you are feeling and doing? Do you think it is appropriate to seemingly have no resources, not be working on getting any and to be "annoyed" at another's shocking statement instead of looking at it and thinking about it and why a person in those circumstances might feel that way?

I don't know if your therapist was trying to shock you out of your seeming complacency (which is more deadly than your situation could be; think of shellfish and how they're put in cool water and it is gradually raised and they die instead of scrambling to get out of the pot!) or what she was thinking/doing because I only have your part of the interaction (and wasn't there, even if I had your therapist's part of the interaction). But if it were my T who said something that made me feel something, anything, I'd be examining heck out of my feeling and reaction versus what was said and wondering why someone who I'm paying to help me would say something I find annoying and I'd be trying to see how I could make my annoyance work for my betterment.

Anger is a wonderful emotion that one can use to help galvanize one's self into action. Depression is sometimes called anger turned inward because, instead of outward action to change the circumstances so people cannot say or do what they said about or did to us again we just simmer in our own angry juices. It's the "I'll show her!" and the "You cannot say that to me, Mom, because I'm getting my own apartment and running my own life from now on!" reaction. It's feeling the sting of the trigger mechanism and acting on our own behalf to disable the mechanism so it is no longer a trigger (instead of telling the other person not to push that button anymore; we can't control what other people do so that rarely works and moving away from the person, "quitting" being their friend, client, employee, etc. doesn't solve the problem because they can move too, might stay with/around us or another, next person might find the same button).

Don't worry about your T and whether she is competent or not; she's another person and just did you the favor of pushing a trigger of yours. You going to work on figuring out how you can make some friends and maybe get to know a special someone, or find a job, even if only volunteer so you could get some contacts, or admit that, yeah, you're feeling like you're kind of in a corner, "would you help me try and figure out how to get out?" Or are you going to argue about what your T should or should not say, according to you?

[Ygrec23]

So80 said: "Just what my therapist said last night. She said if she had no friends, no realationship and no job that she'd want to kill herself. She was saying in relation to my current life situation."

What your T said is, to me, so wildly inappropriate that before doing or thinking anything else you really have to find out whether this is indeed what she said and/or meant, or just what you heard, which may be quite different. I cannot imagine that a T who was not herself around the bend would say anything of the sort to a client. And while there are many different kinds and qualities of T's around, it's really hard for me to imagine there are a large quantity who would go this far out of line.

Check with her. Ask her what she meant. If you want a trustworthy answer, don't phrase your question to include a description of what you thought you heard. Just ask her, simply, "You made a comment to me last time that I didn't quite understand. Could you repeat it?" If she then needs a little more prompting for her memory to work, you might refer to what she would do if she had no friends. DO NOT accuse her of advising you to kill yourself. That will tip her off and you'll never get the truth.

But I must say that what you report her as having said is so far out of line that there's a substantial chance you heard wrong. And in my personal experience that happens often. Take care!

[roads]

Originally Posted by so80

I tried to reiterate to her that yes, while my life certainly isn't great, there's people out there with terminal cancer, there's people disabled etc...
....
if I'm honest I'm more annoyed by her saying such a stupid thing then depressed.
....
It's make me wonder if she's competent enough. I think there's certain things you don't say to a patient and that's one of them.

Apparently she knows you well enough to know you're not going to flip out over this. Instead you're being rather philosophical! Do you suppose she just wanted you to figure out that you're not so badly off?

Or if not that, why did she push your button? And why do you go back to her?

[TayQuincy]

Originally Posted by Ygrec23

DO NOT accuse her of advising you to kill yourself. That will tip her off and you'll never get the truth.

She didn't advise So80 to kill himself. She said if she had no friends, no relationship and no job that she'd want to kill herself. That's totally different. It sounds like she was trying to convey that those things are so important to her in life that she wouldn't want to live anymore if she didnt have those things. I don't see anywhere that she advised anyone to kill themselves. I dont think it was inappropriate, just perhaps ill-worded.

Thank for the replies and I'll try and break down some of the comments in the next for days.

She didn't advise me to kill myself. But she said in my situation she would want to kill herself. This annoys me for many reasons. I now see her as mentally fragile which is one of the reasons I didn't like her saying that.

I believe that in any profession, there are times when it is important to be honest with your clients. I have often told the young lawyers that I mentor that they are not doing their job if they are not pissing someone off at least some of the time, including their own clients.

I think that your T was expressing a true sentiment-- her truth. I don't think that her job is to encourage clients who experience negative life events to sugarcoat their lives and make these things somehow positive. Instead, her job is to want more for you, and to let you know that you deserve to have more in your life than what you have. Her purpose in saying that may be what Perna said, it may have been to encourage you to express your own negative feelings about your life, it may have been an attempt to connect with any negative feelings you may have already expressed, etc. I also think that, as others have said, it's really important for you to confront her about it, tell her how it made you feel, and see how she responds. That's be pretty much the best gauge of what kind of a T she is, at least for you.

My T has said a number of things that have pissed me off. They have also been honest. I wasn't always grateful for them at the time, but in looking back, I see it was those times that I have probably learned the most.

Best, Anne

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by so80

She said if she had no friends, no realationship and no job that she'd want to kill herself.

It's a tricky balancing act for T between being honest and being supportive. I'd like my T to read my mind and know which one I need at that moment.

I suspect what your T was trying to say was:

T: If I had no friends , no relationship and no job, I would find life very difficult. I can understand why people might feel sad and crushed and even suicidal in that situation.

She would then go on to say that you have many years ahead of you in which to find new friends, new relationships and a new job.

T: "You can be happy. I don't want you to throw that away. And I'm still here even if others have deserted you."

[missbelle]

She's either bating you you or needs therapy herself......I would ask her exactly what she meant by that...maybe its to get the rise out of you that you had..that you do have some wonderful things in your life worth living for.......its hard to tell from what you say....I would have to be there and hear the rest of the conversation and her tone of voice
So this probably leaves you more confused. If she is a good therapist she might have really said it to get you to see the good in your life.....and you did...!

[crazycanbegood]

I understand your frustration. i wonder if your T meant what she said in the same way as my T did.

My T said something similar to me. She said that she understands why I'd want to kill myself given the life that I have had. She said that she didn't think that she herself would have been and could be strong enough. She continued that my severe depression is an understandable, even rational, response to the pain but that if I were to consider that the future likely holds less pain, my desire to kill myself to prevent future pain is not a rational one.

I haven't read your previous interactions with your T. But I imagine that your T is just trying to be empathic. She wants to recognize and validate your pain and let you know she gets you and wants to support you.

What did you T say after that statement?

[Flooded]

Originally Posted by so80

Just what my therapist said last night. She said if she had no friends, no realationship and no job that she'd want to kill herself. She was saying in relation to my current life situation.

I tried to reiterate to her that yes, while my life certainly isn't great, there's people out there with terminal cancer, there's people disabled etc...

I just think what she said was absolutely disgraceful from a person who deals with people with mental health problems to come out with such crap. She's more or less saying if she was in my situation she'd think about ending it. That hardly makes me feel over the moon, though if I'm honest I'm more annoyed by her saying such a stupid thing then depressed.

It's make me wonder if she's competent enough. I think there's certain things you don't say to a patient and that's one of them.

I can certainly relate in fact it reminded me of the time my ex t said she wishes her kids father was borderline and that he would kill himself

I should've slapped her.

[Aslan]

my answer to that would be, id rather kill someone then kill myself

Right, well having thought about it more I suppose I do appreciate her honesty. I suppose from her situation she would kill herself if she was in my shoes because she is in a realationship, has a good job and has friends. For her, those things would be massively significant to her life, and to lose them may well drive her to suicide, as it would for many people.

I suppose my disapproval of those comments was because I thought them unprofessional, but she was being honest and that should be respected. No point sugarcoating the situation as some of you have said, though apart from having no job I'm not that fussed for having friends or a realationship.

I find it strange that a therapist would say something like that. Without hearing it in context it's hard to say, but it seems rather flippant. Besides, we know that depression can affect anyone, even those who have good jobs, friends, and relationships. People who from the outside look like they have the 'perfect life' and 'everything going for them' have still been known to kill themselves. Suicidal depression doesn't just affect the poor & lonely & single (although, being poor and lonely and single doesn't help matters, I gotta say...) and not everyone who's poor or lonely or single is suicidal. You have to be happy inside. Psychologically balanced. No amount of money can buy that, and you can't put it all on someone else (eg; a spouse) to 'save' you, either...

It's one thing for a therapist to agree that you're not in a very good situation or that she wouldn't like to be in your shoes - it's quite another for her to say if she were you she would want to kill herself. I wouldn't find that kind of comment helpful, and I think I'd have to tell her so, personally... like, shouldn't your T be getting you to look to the positives, or be helping you find that ray of light or hope or whatever to get you through these hard times? She should be encouraging you to hold on, not give up. IMO.

Originally Posted by just_some_girl

I find it strange that a therapist would say something like that. Without hearing it in context it's hard to say, but it seems rather flippant. Besides, we know that depression can affect anyone, even those who have good jobs, friends, and relationships. People who from the outside look like they have the 'perfect life' and 'everything going for them' have still been known to kill themselves. Suicidal depression doesn't just affect the poor & lonely & single (although, being poor and lonely and single doesn't help matters, I gotta say...) and not everyone who's poor or lonely or single is suicidal. You have to be happy inside. Psychologically balanced. No amount of money can buy that, and you can't put it all on someone else (eg; a spouse) to 'save' you, either...

It's one thing for a therapist to agree that you're not in a very good situation or that she wouldn't like to be in your shoes - it's quite another for her to say if she were you she would want to kill herself. I wouldn't find that kind of comment helpful, and I think I'd have to tell her so, personally... like, shouldn't your T be getting you to look to the positives, or be helping you find that ray of light or hope or whatever to get you through these hard times? She should be encouraging you to hold on, not give up. IMO.

You've pretty much summed up my thoughts. That why I find her comment bizarre in some ways, and it makes me question her own mental stability.

Maybe she's depressed herself and she's expressed her thoughts to me?

I think if I were you I'd want to bring this up with her and get some clarification on what it is she did mean. Tell her how you received her comment and how strange you thought it to be... maybe it was just an errant comment, or yes - perhaps she is depressed, or has been. I'd really want to know what it is she intended to communicate - or if like some other poster have suggested, she was just trying to 'push your buttons' or provoke a reaction. One never knows with Ts!

I will be bringing it up with her.

[growlycat]

I think your T was trying to be empathetic... imagine if she stated the opposite, "I could never be suicidal, even if I didn't have a job or friends etc" wouldn't that be equally annoying?

I guess I could see how what she said is irritating. If I as a patient am in pain, why aren't you helping me??? that would be my train of thought

[Yoda]

We certainly have a variety of opinions about what she said.

I would fire her and find a new therapist pronto. I cannot understand how in her mind that was therapeutic to say that to you.

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by CantExplain

It's a tricky balancing act for T between being honest and being supportive. I'd like my T to read my mind and know which one I need at that moment.

I suspect what your T was trying to say was:

...

I'm afraid I was a bit naive when I wrote that.

In my fantasy world, there are no bad people, just bad communication. This, unfortunately, is not the world we live in.

If your T left you with the idea that suicide is an approperaite response to your situation, then she is a bad T.

[lastyearisblank]

That comment really does feel off to me. It takes a very utilitarian view to a job, relationship, and friends. As if the point of all those things was to make one happy. As if the point of life was to acquire those things in order to maintain one's personal health. Those things are nice. But they are not what makes life worth living; bad jobs and bad relationships can in fact make life very hard.

Just a personal reflection, but I would be very disheartened to hear what your therapist told you. Even despite having struggled with stuff and thought about suicide in the past, I have values that I believe in, and experiences that I am curious to have, people I want to meet, work I want to accomplish. I want to make the world a better place for others-- I think most people (most shrinks included) have some combination of these goals too. Awe- civic engagement- the ability to use my mind and heart to experience life-- without those things, I truly would want to kill myself, because that is what life is to me. Not some checklist one amasses in order to obtain health. That is what has gotten me through the hard times when I haven't had a job- or a relationship- or friends- or even a competent shrink. I have all three of those things now too so I know that they can come and go based on circumstances.

Anyhow I think life is bigger than that simple statement of your Ts. That is a wonderful thing, basically.

I am really curious that your T listed her job as one of the things, btw, that makes her life worth living. I do wonder whether she meant earning a living is a basic condition for living, or if she can really appreciate the potential of her clients. I hope you guys can talk about this.