If you've read my previous posts, I've been going through a really rough time right now. I ended up calling my T twice during the last week, which bums me out because I feel like I'm needy and desperate, which makes me feel even worse about myself and also makes me feel like he's going to get sick of me.

In both phone calls and in our session today, my T basically ended up saying the same thing we go over and over all the time anyway: it happened TO me, it wasn't ABOUT me; it says nothing about me as a person that other people did these things to my body when I was a child. The fact that they are still sick and poisonous, and have brought new sick, poisonous people (my brother in law) into the mix still doesn't say anything about me as a person.

Anyway, as we were ending, and he was writing down my next appointment and logging it into the computer, I said, "I bet you are so sick of repeating yourself. You're probably getting sick of me." He was still looking at the computer and said, "I'm NOT sick of you. I love . . ." He stopped abruptly and looked kind of stricken for a second and then started talking about the "science of psychology" and what studies show that abuse does to the brain. I almost started laughing. He's said that he cares about me before and that he likes me, but apparently the other L word is off-limits? Or do you guys think that I'm just reading too much into this? I have no illusions that it's love in the romantic sense, but I would like to think he loves me as a person.

[kaliope]

I think you can take that one. It was nearly there. The least that could have come out of it was "i love working with you" but then why would he have been too embarrassed to finish that.

[Chopin99]

I agree with Kaliope. Take it! I think a lot of T's do love their clients, but have a boundary about saying it. My T told me before I ever brought it up and I was shocked!

Again, take it. I think your gut is telling you it is true!

[delicatefade26]

Aww definitely take it ; )
My T one time started to say love and changed it to I care about you very very much...then one time he was talking about how God loves me but I also think he was using that as a way to say he does too : ) T's for sure can have love for clients...it's unique and special...different but still love <3

[unaluna]

my t and I say and write in emails I love you all the time, so I have nothing against the words per se. just like to encourage people to keep good boundaries, and to be OPEN and talk about stuff. It's a slippery slope, and this guy i'm afraid is sliding. also i'm not clear on what YOUR feelings are about he "almost" said? here is a link to the earlier "trouble"...

http://forums.psychcentral.com/showt...ight=horseback

[crazycanbegood]

i am sure he does love you. it took a long time for my T to outright say she loves me. she'd evade saying more than fondness or care for a long time. i could tell it was purposeful. she said she feels a form a love. she said she felt love. then she signed a couple emails "with love." next when i asked her questions like "if I robbed a bank and killed someone would you still love me?" or "will you always be there for me and love me?" she would say yes. finally one session when i was upset about a difficult relationship and its loss, i asked "but you still love me right?" she replied, "i love you, Crazy." She didn't feel comfortable saying she loved me until after MANY sessions and much time spent together.

I think he realized that the word "love" is loaded and that maybe he should have used a less emotional word. But I agree with others that you should accept it. Whether he loves you, or loves working with you, or loves helping you, it's all good. Maybe he was afraid that using the word love would scare you, and make you think it was an inappropriate romantic thing. But .... there are positive feelings there! Enjoy the feeling, and don't sweat the small stuff. He cares ... and that's really nice to feel.

[WePow]

I agree that he must feel good emotions about you. Enjoy the bond.

Originally Posted by hankster

my t and I say and write in emails I love you all the time, so I have nothing against the words per se. just like to encourage people to keep good boundaries, and to be OPEN and talk about stuff. It's a slippery slope, and this guy i'm afraid is sliding. also i'm not clear on what YOUR feelings are about he "almost" said? here is a link to the earlier "trouble"...

http://forums.psychcentral.com/showt...ight=horseback

I really appreciate your concern, hankster. I know you thought the earlier thing was trouble, and I didn't. My feeling at the time he almost said it was, and pretty much still is, amusement at the look on his face. I think I caught him unaware because he was thinking about scheduling and not doing "therapy."

I know you were less than impressed with my thought that my T couldn't possibly be offering anything more than a therapeutic relationship because I think I'm unattractive, but my brain comes back to that fairly often. He's married. He's attractive. I'm married. I'm NOT attractive.

In any event, he has been clear about the boundaries of the relationship in a nice way. I believe the conversation about friendship down the road was about trying to get me to stop worrying about him seeing me as "less than" him, about never being equals, about losing him forever. I wish you could meet him, hankster, so you could tell that he really is (I think) a genuinely kind, caring person. I know that this is not going anywhere sexual. I really do have warm fuzzies inside, though, that you're worried about me.

I believe, in that situation, that I would have been unable to stop myself from teasing him mercilessly.

"You love . . . . my boots?"
"You love . . . . writing down my appointments?"
"You love . . . the bad haircut I just got?"

Of course, that would have totally ruined the moment, which probably would have been my point.

I think it is great that you were just able to accept the affirmation of your connection in the moment, and now.

Anne

[Lexi232]

I believe he does care about you.. maybe not in the bf/gf kind of way.. but he does. He might of stoped himself short cause he knew he meant it in one way, and didn't want it to be misinterruprited.
I know personally, I have been talking to people on the phone, then accidentally at the end of the phone call say "i love you". Let me just say, every time I was SOOOOO embarrassed!! lol, it was a slip of words, a usual thing said at the end of the conversation on a phone, so when i said such a thing to my best friends, or other people who weren't really in those kinds of love relationships, lets just say there was a silent pause, and then i'm not sure what they looked like but i was red, and embarrased then quickly tried to explain it.
And by him saying that, and stoping, then explaining something, it could of been his way to quickly trying to explain his reasoning for why he said what he was about to say..
T's have a lot of ethic codes so.... idk.. It's been my luck that the ones I wish didn't have such a tight strict ethic code don't change, and those who didn't have any ethic's they followed by, I wished they would follow them. lol Kinda ironic huh? I guess that just means those T's who follow it are good T's... and if you find someone who would budge on it for you and you both feel the same, then that would be awesome. But those who don't seem to take any ethics into any thoughts are usually the ones to stay away from...

LETS JUST SAY, if he DID say he loved you, and everything about you, and wanted to be with you and see you every day, and etc.. speaking hypothoticaly. How would that change your relationship that you have with him now? How would his relationship change from the one that he has with you now? Would you both be comfortable with that kind of change?
T's tend to take on a older wiser role in most peoples life, no matter the actual age diffrence... but.. How would you feel if he kept that role that he is now and took on the relationship to something more than just therapy/patient, or family role? How do you think he would feel?
Me stating from experience in this... A therapist can't handle a bf/gf who still sees them as a therapist, and goes to them as a therapist. Because T's can go home and unwind and focus on themselves, and get that time they need to be refreshed for the next day to be able to be a therapist and give proper therapy. If they can't do this, then they become drained, and they can't cope, and then they end up in the same place as the patients, going to see a therapist. And it puts a drain on them.. If they never have time to recoope or refresh and things, and are always busy then they get drained, and burned out. They keep in the job because it's what they know, and used to love doing... but don't know how to become unburned out... And a T who is burned out, is almost as useful as the people who just come into the job for the money. (except the people who go into the job just for the money are scum bags, and idiots who should be hospitalized themselves for ever thinking of such things.--while those who are burned out, are just that, its not their fault.... they still care and things, but they become emotionally detached, and that's usually their way of coping.. therapist are people too....And they prove they still care for people by when the time of their life comes and they realize that they have burned out, and are barely able to be affective or proactive for those in need, they either vow for a break, and vaccation, or retire, or go on to try something else for the time being... Until they can regain their strength, energy, and self back. That there proves even if one is burned out, they still care... While if they are just in it for the money, they will keep going until they have no patients left, or end up with charges of malpractice slaped on them, or in jail, or some other reason that would force them to quit. Because those are the ones that are only in it for the money, not the people... the money keeps coming, its a nice income.. they keep going... and guess what? they lack to see the people are the reason of the job.. not the income.. So as long as they are getting the income, they will keep on doing it. cause the money is all they care about)...
In a gf/bf relationship (erm well.. bf/bf and gf/gf count there too..)(gf=girlfriend; bf=boy friend), Yes you look to each other for support and help.. but it's not all one sided... and also if you kept the role that you two have, and take it into a more of a lovers relationship, .... well... He can't be both.. Sometimes people confuse helping or seeking someone out therapist who have that role on certain people for love.. just like some people confuse someone being nice to them, instead of bullying them, they confuse being nice for love.. when it really is just BEING NICE. If you really care about him, honestly think about this... Even if he hasn't had any experience in such a thing before.. It WILL show up later, then what? You two end up dating, and eventually getting married, and then he's going to work and providing therapy for his patients, Then you have a stressor while he's not around, and you call him up, demanding time because your his wife, and those others can wait. So he either puts you off for a few days, until you win and he starts having to take calls and his patients start going off somewhere else.. he starts loosing the ability to help the others, because now you are needing extreme support because it's the holidays, or it's some other kind of day that is just hard on you, and causing tremendous stress and pain on you... Then he fills the role of the therapist, while also being a husband.. I'm not saying any of the above to be mean or say that you are that way... or that he is that way.. I'm just speaking hypathotical (i believe thats the word i'm meaning), so it kind of gives you an inside glimpse of something that you might not realise or haven't had the experience yet to know about..
And I speak for experience.. I tried helping and being there for someone that I truely loved dearly.. I loved him before I even knew something was wrong.. then we lost touch.. and then we grew back in touch with eachother years later.. we were still chasing the old flame that had died off long ago.. Neither of us had our closure tho. And thats prolly what made us seek eachother out so much.. chasing the old flame, and needing that closure, but not wanting it to end. And then as a few years pass, I notice he is seeking me out in a therapist type of role, but still we cling'd tight to the bf/gf label and want... After a few more months, I realised that I was advoiding his phone calls, his texts, his emails, his IM's, because I wasn't in the best place to be much support for him right then, and then his attempts to contact anyone who might have contact with me, to have them tell me to get back with him, and hes sorry.
Long before this, he started doing a clingy nature, and i knew something was wrong. My natural instincts and also natural want to help and please came into play with him opening up to me. But long before even him opening up to me, he was spazing out if I didn't respond within 10 minutes of his texts, even if it was during the night when I was sleeping.. (this helped me too lol, cause i could so relate to this, as I was that way too.. but I've coped with it, but just stating once, why i'm sending another form of contact, and hope they aren't mad at me, and if they are to please let me know. and sometimes with certain people, i add "and i can't play these games that you require me to read your mind! Your mind is never consistant enough for me to even take a guess at what you want me to do!" (specifically three people in my life that are so called "parents" but.. yeah anyways.. im getting sidetracked..) but because of this i could relate, and not get after him because i knew what the anxieties and fears were like, even though it sometimes annoyed me to no end (including those who had contact with me, and had ever even been on my facebook page, or said just hi in the passing or anything). But in a way, that helped me realize how to tone my own issue in that if i said something that i just needed to wait for a response.. no response doesn't mean anything.. usually just meant the person was busy, or not able to reply, or like one of my best friends, her phone died and she forgot to charge it, or forgot it at home..)he started seeking me out for both the girlfriend and therapist role. I tried hard because thats what i wanted, i like helping people.. but when im not in a good place, its almost impossible for me to do anything other than say "yeah.. i hear ya'... me too.. well atleast you can know your not alone.. we are both hopless about the future.." kind of thing.
Thats when i realised after such a long period of time... that I couldn't be both.. I could only be a therapist... or a lover.. but not both. I couldnt imagine spending the rest of my life with him, if thats how clingy and needy he was -and i wasn't even in the same state as him! Let alone imagine what it would be like if I was there, and had no excuse to hide, or not be around. I couldn't hide from him if we shared the same house, and/or bedroom. I could regroup and gather myself when I needed to, because he would always need me. And refused to go see a licensed therapist. ... until I just cut off all contact and was pissed and a bit loopey from meds and drinking ... and was at one of my best friends ranches, and she knows how to fight well. lol! Lets just say I felt bad... but I gave her my phone and let her have it with him.. we never told him it was her and I who did it. and that I wasn't the one who thought or typed the messages back to him.. but I figured it was for the best. He wasn't listening to anything else. Only thing left was tough love.
But even as i was typing this up I realized something... When I was on my way here, into this state... in this space where I am currently residing.. I was texting him. and we were so happy. And I was moving back, and he lived nearby in the same housing area, and that we could start a new... He had a therapist, so that was a good thing, and we both agreed to just be open minded, and let what comes happen when we talked for the first time in almost a year, then saw eachother for the first time since highschool (2007-senior year). But when he was sucidal, and woudln't promise not to do anything, in fact he kept saying he was going to do it, and kept telling me how and what all he already tried... I told him (Because i'm used to this, but i've never truely been in a close relationship when this such thing happens, it's always been in a hospital or in group therapy when such things happen), I told him, He either needed to go to someone and tell him, such as his therapist, or call the police, or go to someone who can help him that is in the authority to do so, or i would do it... He refused... then after being exahausted mentally with talking and it getting to be too hard with extreme trying, I gave up and restated it, and said that I would be calling to make sure that he told them. I didn't hear back from him.. some 15 mins later i called the local police here, and told them and showed all the texts back and forth (to prove he is as he said he was, and that way he couldn't slick out of it), and then... he them got furious with me, hated my guts, and never wanted to speak with me again.. this is usual... but they usually get past that part once they are healthy again... soon we got back together, and he didn't hate or want to beat me up or anything anymore, but he still didn't trust me ONE BIT! and he even told me so. many times.. I figured i'd have to gain that trust back... but then I realized with this post, all of that.. me coming back, and getting back with someone i used to love, and things of that nature, and then getting back together, and then we both agreed to break it off and did so easily.. we were both wanting that closure... the closure that we neglected eachother from having in high school. by going completely away from eachother and even though we had the same classes and periods, we would still manage to stay out of site of eachother, and would go the long way around just to advoid coming in contact with eachother (which backfired once, because we both were leaving an area and while he was coming, i was going, and we ended up both taking the longest route possible, bumping straight into eachother). And it was obvious that we both still cared for eachother... I would still take up for him, and take the fall, and not point my finger at him when it was him who did something, and i got the blame on me. And neither of us went out with anyone else, nor got rid of the things we let eachother borrow and have... Odd really... But it was a closure that we both needed...
Sorry for such a long post.. I forgot where I was going with this actually, so... lol anyways its time for me to go get ready for me to head to my T.

[Chopin99]

Originally Posted by 3rdTimesTheCharm

"You love . . . . my boots?"
"You love . . . . writing down my appointments?"
"You love . . . the bad haircut I just got?"
Anne

I knew there was a reason I like you, Anne. I would have to ask about all the stuff I know is distasteful to her:

You love what? Your iPad? Scheduling your own appointments? Your wig? Your in-laws? Copy machines? Volvos?

Lexi, I was a little confused by your reply. I'm tired and not feeling well, so I know it just might be me. Are you a therapist? And started a relationship with a client? What was the time lag between the two? I am sorry it didn't work out for you guys.

In reference to your questions to me: "LETS JUST SAY, if he DID say he loved you, and everything about you, and wanted to be with you and see you every day, and etc.. speaking hypothoticaly. How would that change your relationship that you have with him now? How would his relationship change from the one that he has with you now? Would you both be comfortable with that kind of change?"
I am not looking for that kind of change. I am half in love with my T SOME of the time, but I need him as my therapist right now. I lost my dad; my father in law is dying and I am really close to him; my sister and her husband are just cruel and bizarre; I'm really struggling in my marriage. I need a therapist, not a boyfriend.

That said, I don't think there is anything unhealthy about how I feel about him, or wanting him to love me. He's an amazing person. He listens to me with respect, he validates my feelings, he accepts me. I love him and I think it would almost more weird if I didn't. I don't expect this feeling to GO anywhere on either of our parts. I know he would never take advantage of how vulnerable I am right now, and I would never do anything to endanger his marriage or career.

I don't know if any of this makes sense. I can't be the only person who loves their T and fantasizes sometimes, but doesn't really want anything to HAPPEN, right? And he cannot be the only T in the world who can like and maybe love a client without turning it into something creepy and weird, right?

I think its safe to say he enjoys working with you
My t and i say i love you every time we talk and it helps a lot.

[mcl6136]

Originally Posted by My kids are cool

Lexi, I was a little confused by your reply. I'm tired and not feeling well, so I know it just might be me. Are you a therapist? And started a relationship with a client? What was the time lag between the two? I am sorry it didn't work out for you guys.

In reference to your questions to me: "LETS JUST SAY, if he DID say he loved you, and everything about you, and wanted to be with you and see you every day, and etc.. speaking hypothoticaly. How would that change your relationship that you have with him now? How would his relationship change from the one that he has with you now? Would you both be comfortable with that kind of change?"
I am not looking for that kind of change. I am half in love with my T SOME of the time, but I need him as my therapist right now. I lost my dad; my father in law is dying and I am really close to him; my sister and her husband are just cruel and bizarre; I'm really struggling in my marriage. I need a therapist, not a boyfriend.

That said, I don't think there is anything unhealthy about how I feel about him, or wanting him to love me. He's an amazing person. He listens to me with respect, he validates my feelings, he accepts me. I love him and I think it would almost more weird if I didn't. I don't expect this feeling to GO anywhere on either of our parts. I know he would never take advantage of how vulnerable I am right now, and I would never do anything to endanger his marriage or career.

I don't know if any of this makes sense. I can't be the only person who loves their T and fantasizes sometimes, but doesn't really want anything to HAPPEN, right? And he cannot be the only T in the world who can like and maybe love a client without turning it into something creepy and weird, right?

Right. Very right, as far as I am concerned.

Love comes in all shapes, sizes, dimensions, lengths, colors, reasons.....

[Lexi232]

Originally Posted by My kids are cool

Lexi, I was a little confused by your reply. I'm tired and not feeling well, so I know it just might be me. Are you a therapist? And started a relationship with a client? What was the time lag between the two? I am sorry it didn't work out for you guys.

In reference to your questions to me: "LETS JUST SAY, if he DID say he loved you, and everything about you, and wanted to be with you and see you every day, and etc.. speaking hypothoticaly. How would that change your relationship that you have with him now? How would his relationship change from the one that he has with you now? Would you both be comfortable with that kind of change?"
I am not looking for that kind of change. I am half in love with my T SOME of the time, but I need him as my therapist right now. I lost my dad; my father in law is dying and I am really close to him; my sister and her husband are just cruel and bizarre; I'm really struggling in my marriage. I need a therapist, not a boyfriend.

That said, I don't think there is anything unhealthy about how I feel about him, or wanting him to love me. He's an amazing person. He listens to me with respect, he validates my feelings, he accepts me. I love him and I think it would almost more weird if I didn't. I don't expect this feeling to GO anywhere on either of our parts. I know he would never take advantage of how vulnerable I am right now, and I would never do anything to endanger his marriage or career.

I don't know if any of this makes sense. I can't be the only person who loves their T and fantasizes sometimes, but doesn't really want anything to HAPPEN, right? And he cannot be the only T in the world who can like and maybe love a client without turning it into something creepy and weird, right?

nope, not a therapist. But that is a goal in mind for when I can get into college. And also I just seem to take on that kind of role with people. But the relationship I used to explain why it might not be such a good idea. as during this time I found out that I couldn't be both with him and he was wanting to marry a therapist pretty much.. ...... I also had a mentor job, which OFTEN the evening staff within the hospital would put me in the role as a therapist. ... and then some of that just come naturally. I hate to see others hurt, and I want to know, and i want to help..

Ah I get it now. I'm sorry, I thought something else lol .
And I believe you are right, that is natural, and it is healthy for you.
And as for the fantasizing, no you aren't alone in that, (the proof is in theres a whole board on here just for that), and yes you are right again, He isn't the only T.

I'm sorry for the novel i wrote earlier. my adhd med kicked in at the beginning of it. lol and I'm guessing just because I have this issue a lot, that the confusion had nothing to do on your side of it. I often have problems with writing and typing and even leaving out words and other things.

[beautiful.mess]

Originally Posted by My kids are cool

Lexi, I was a little confused by your reply. I'm tired and not feeling well, so I know it just might be me. Are you a therapist? And started a relationship with a client? What was the time lag between the two? I am sorry it didn't work out for you guys.

In reference to your questions to me: "LETS JUST SAY, if he DID say he loved you, and everything about you, and wanted to be with you and see you every day, and etc.. speaking hypothoticaly. How would that change your relationship that you have with him now? How would his relationship change from the one that he has with you now? Would you both be comfortable with that kind of change?"
I am not looking for that kind of change. I am half in love with my T SOME of the time, but I need him as my therapist right now. I lost my dad; my father in law is dying and I am really close to him; my sister and her husband are just cruel and bizarre; I'm really struggling in my marriage. I need a therapist, not a boyfriend.

That said, I don't think there is anything unhealthy about how I feel about him, or wanting him to love me. He's an amazing person. He listens to me with respect, he validates my feelings, he accepts me. I love him and I think it would almost more weird if I didn't. I don't expect this feeling to GO anywhere on either of our parts. I know he would never take advantage of how vulnerable I am right now, and I would never do anything to endanger his marriage or career.

I don't know if any of this makes sense. I can't be the only person who loves their T and fantasizes sometimes, but doesn't really want anything to HAPPEN, right? And he cannot be the only T in the world who can like and maybe love a client without turning it into something creepy and weird, right?

Absolutely right imo too.

Originally Posted by My kids are cool

I don't know if any of this makes sense. I can't be the only person who loves their T and fantasizes sometimes, but doesn't really want anything to HAPPEN, right? And he cannot be the only T in the world who can like and maybe love a client without turning it into something creepy and weird, right?

My T tells me he loves me all the time, and I SO love him...and it's safe and healthy and healing. It makes sense that after hundreds of hours of working so closely together that love could develop. T's love has been super healing for me, and there's nothing creepy or weird about it. It's safe, and good.

So, yeah, it makes sense to me