[CantExplain]

Hi guys!

Most of us on here come from some kind of Anglo-Saxon culture. (Looks that way to me.) And the question "to hug or not to hug" is a very raw one for us.

But other cultures have very different attutudes to touch.

I imagine that German Ts shake hands with every patient at the beginning and end of each session, because everyone shakes hands with everyone and it would be rude not to. Maybe French Ts kiss their patients on both cheeks? I saw on TV how a recent Carribean immigrant to the UK discovered to her consternation that she was not allowed to hug the postman!

Also, Ts have to challenge their patients and "talk straight", but that might be difficult to do without sounding rude.

I've read that psychotherapy made little headway into Thailand until the practitioners realised just how strong the taboo was against criticising ones parents.

Now here is the question. Should T respect:
a) The patient's culture?
b) Her own culture?
c) The dominant culture of her practice?

Footnote: Do German patients address their Ts as "Herr Doktor"?

[mazing]

I know from my training (social work) that we are encouraged to meet our own clients cultures. Part of the ethics (at least in Australia) is that we accept and embrace culture and identity as a strength of a person and should not force our own values onto them.

I believe it is something that should be negotiated between you and your therapist to determine something that you are both comfortable with doing. For example, if you are a person who likes to hug but your therapist isn't comfortable (or vice versa) you may come up with an action or greeting that expresses that without the hug. For example, a hand shake or specialised verbal greeting that you are both comfortable with.

As for challenging to 'talk straight' I'm not 100% sure what you mean. I assume you mean speaking what is on your mind and not trying to sugarcoat everything/be worried about how it affects others? Personally, I would attempt to get to a point with my clients that allowed them to feel comfortable talking to me about anything without fear of retribution, but would also attempt to set boundaries on what was acceptable using guidelines wiithin our current culture, etc. For example, I would be comfortable with a person telling me what they thought of my practice if I had done something wrong (even if it involved something I found rude or insulting) but then attempt to help the individual to rephrase that same comment in a way that was more constructive. For example instead of telling me that I was a ****** for [insert wrong action here] working with them to constructively state that 'when I did [insert action here] it made them feel [insert feeling] and because of that [negative effects on them and our therapeutic relationship].

Does this make sense? I am having trouble trying to word it so that it makes sense - it is so much easier face to face!

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by catgoesmeow

As for challenging to 'talk straight' I'm not 100% sure what you mean.

A group facilitator described one of the members as "dictatorial", and although we suggested that other words might be more appropriate, he stuck to it.

Yes, I mean a certain amount of suger-coating is important to me, otherwise I feel offended and turn off. Isaid, ""You seem to choose harsh words deliberately. I wouldn't say those words to you unless I was actually trying to hurt you." That facilitator did not respond to my concerns, and I left that group.

I wonder if you had said do coloured people kiss their teeth and say "wats up man" if it would have seemed quite as acceptable as the blatant discrimination about Germans?

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by earthmamma

I wonder if you had said do coloured people kiss their teeth and say "wats up man" if it would have seemed quite as acceptable as the blatant discrimination about Germans?

Maybe a better word is stereotyping, but yeah. I didn't see the empathizing grin and hug of good-natured teasing there. Perhaps he intended to say Austrian, re Freud?

And to respond to the post, I brought this up early in my therapy, defending my parents' dysfunctionality as typically Italian (as they had defended it to me), and my T set me straight.

[Perna]

I imagine that T's are mostly in their own country/culture so it is not as difficult to adapt? I had a non-native US T and did not really have any cultural problems; I sometimes had to explain more in my "stories" as our backgrounds were different, she didn't know all the meanings of all the words/slang, etc. but she was listening for the emotions/feelings and emotions are the same; we're all human.

I don't find this question offensive at all- I think it's very interesting. It's simply true that different cultures have different ways of interacting. I was excited when I first saw this thread, because I thought people would throw in some of their personal experiences with various cultures.

For instance hispanic cultures have a much smaller "bubble" around them. In the US, we like to stand at least arms length from eachother when we talk, and hispanics like to stand about 1/2 that distance. I'm from an hispanic background but was raised in the US. When I visit family in Central America, I find myself very uncomfortable just having a conversation in a grocery store because everyone is "in my face". They frequently think I'm being standoffish and rude.:mexican:

I don't think this would be a deal-breaker in therapy, but being culturally sensitive is important, and no one person can know all the little details about every culture.

[anilam]

Find it interesting too. And you can trust me that in Germany they probably call their Ts Herr/ Frau Doctor (as we do in my country:-). I think in other countries the therapy looks a bit different.

What I find offensive though is the term for ppl earthmamma used...

[Chopin99]

My state in the USA is requiring mental health workers in my field to take "cultural awareness" training. It is up to each facility to develop its own curriculum. The point is to be able to meet clients "where they are". The onus is on providers to be culturally sensitive to their clients.

[sunrise]

Now here is the question. Should T respect:
a) The patient's culture?
Absolutely!! A T should be culturally sensitive.

b) Her own culture?
Yes. The T should not do something that makes her terribly uncomfortable. For example, since you specifically mentioned touching, if the T does not want to hug a patient, for whatever reason, the T should not hug unwillingly. That would be a disservice to the client anyway, and inauthentic. I think a patient would be able to feel if the T was forcing herself to hug and that could be damaging.

c) The dominant culture of her practice?
For patients from that culture. But not for other clients. If most of the T's clients are one culture, the T should not apply the cultural mores of that culture to other patients that are not of that culture. The T should be culturally sensitive to all cultures. (Perhaps I didn't interpret that question correctly?) One also needs to be aware about assumptions about culture. For instance, some European-Americans are very huggy and some were brought up to be more formal and not touch as frequently, especially those they haven't known for long. And the moniker "Asian" encompasses dozens of very different cultures. So the T has to meet individuals where they are and not automaticallly assign his/her preconceptions of what their culture is like.

BTW, in my current health care training, we have a lot of emphasis on developing cultural awareness.

Originally Posted by CantExplain

Hi guys! I imagine that German Ts shake hands with every patient at the beginning and end of each session, because everyone shakes hands with everyone and it would be rude not to. Maybe French Ts kiss their patients on both cheeks?

As someone with a French background, I don't find this offensive at all. It's certainly not discrimination or even stereotyping, it's cultural norms. In fact, when working in an office in France it's considered rude not to go around to your colleagues and kiss them on the cheeks (2, 3, or 4 depending on region) each morning or if you meet a group of friends out, no matter how packed the restaurant/café you must go around the table and kiss everyone.

About your question in France - it depends. Most "therapy" in France is psychoanalysis (Freudian), so the therapy relationship isn't an object like it is in many types of therapy practiced in the US.

[franki_j]

Wow! This post is extremely relevant to me because my parents are Eastern European (Czech and Slovak). The immigrated here when I was a year old; I was born in Germany. Anyways, after 10 months of therapy, I have done my best to not talk about my family, but in the past couple very hard session it has become unavoidable.
My parents were always making comments about Americans, which I know affected me a lot. For example, they were always making comments about how Americans were fat, particularly American women, who were fat, unattractive, and too aggressive. Not surprisingly, I came to my T with an ED which I knew I had in part due to what my parents would say, but I never told my T this until recently because I didn't want her to judge my parents and also because I felt that I would be betraying them in some way. My parents were always talking about how what happened in the family should stay in the family and how Americans liked to meddle in other people's business (ie. Family Services, etc.), so it makes it SOOO hard to talk to T about my family because of what my parents instilled in me. But this last session I was finally able to open up. I told her that my parents were "different" because they were not from the States and I started explaining how, like what they said about American women's weight and their whole thing about not talking about what happened in the family. I know it has been very hard for me to open up about them in part because they are from a different culture, I don't want her to judge them, and because I was brought up to beleive that Americans talked too much about their problems and were too sensitive.
Oh and PS. my parents also always said that American liked to hug each other too much. My T hugged me once, which was nice although I was very awkward about it. I actually really want my T to hug me again but I think if she did I would freak out. One time I had frozen up and I heard her shifting in her seat and I though she was going to get up and sit next to me, and all I kep thinking was "Oh god, if she sits next to me I am out of here." but a part of me wants her to be close to me.

[anilam]

Originally Posted by franki_j

Wow! This post is extremely relevant to me because my parents are Eastern European (Czech and Slovak). The immigrated here when I was a year old; I was born in Germany. Anyways, after 10 months of therapy, I have done my best to not talk about my family, but in the past couple very hard session it has become unavoidable.
My parents were always making comments about Americans, which I know affected me a lot. For example, they were always making comments about how Americans were fat, particularly American women, who were fat, unattractive, and too aggressive. Not surprisingly, I came to my T with an ED which I knew I had in part due to what my parents would say, but I never told my T this until recently because I didn't want her to judge my parents and also because I felt that I would be betraying them in some way. My parents were always talking about how what happened in the family should stay in the family and how Americans liked to meddle in other people's business (ie. Family Services, etc.), so it makes it SOOO hard to talk to T about my family because of what my parents instilled in me. But this last session I was finally able to open up. I told her that my parents were "different" because they were not from the States and I started explaining how, like what they said about American women's weight and their whole thing about not talking about what happened in the family. I know it has been very hard for me to open up about them in part because they are from a different culture, I don't want her to judge them, and because I was brought up to beleive that Americans talked too much about their problems and were too sensitive.
Oh and PS. my parents also always said that American liked to hug each other too much. My T hugged me once, which was nice although I was very awkward about it. I actually really want my T to hug me again but I think if she did I would freak out. One time I had frozen up and I heard her shifting in her seat and I though she was going to get up and sit next to me, and all I kep thinking was "Oh god, if she sits next to me I am out of here." but a part of me wants her to be close to me.

OMG My dad is Czech too- small world.

I live part in Prague and part in Berlin (my mum being a German:-). We do say these things about Americans- funny cause we Czechs (yeah, I consider myself to be a Czech) are like the second fattest state in Europe (after Germany :-).
So sorry, that you have suffered- I have heard about Slovak's curves from my mum all the time, so I can relate. .
And what happens in a family stays in a family? We even have a saying that goes stg like this: a mother's skirt covers every bad thing.

However, it is true that we don't hug/touch (only shaking hands) ppl that much, like our personal space, don't like to show emotions in public and consider Americans to be , among other things, nosy. (BTW going to a T carries a social stigma here, so only my parents know I am going and I sometimes do feel ashamed.)

You have to understand, before 89 Americans were like gods to us- compared to Russians, it is not hard to imagine. But now, well, we are getting pretty cynical about our gods...

However, TBH, we like to make fun of every nation we know and mostly of our small country. Patriotism is a concept unknown to us.

We don't mean to be cruel but humour is our way to survive and we do have a pretty dry, black humour, which I love.

[bluemountains]

I don't find this thread offensive at all. I think that as the world becomes more aware of each other through the internet and being more transient throughout the world, our cultures are blending, so the behaviors aren't as strong by culture as they once were. I find the study of cultures so fascinating, so I am glad this thread has been posted.

I live in an area that has many cultures due to international businesses located here, and today at my son's Science Olympiad I noticed that the African-American and Anglo-American cultures were the minorities at this event, despite the fact that these cultures, along with the Mexican-American culture make up the vast majority of the population in this area. The majority of the students who participated in the events were Asian and Middle-Eastern. Was it racist of me to make this observation? No! Would it be racist of me to say that Asian and Middle-Eastern children are smarter in science that the other races mentioned. Yes!

I don't mean to hijack your thread, I just find the fine line of racial observations vs. racist statements very interesting and a touchy subject for many!

Bluemountains

[franki_j]

Originally Posted by anilam

OMG My dad is Czech too- small world.

I live part in Prague and part in Berlin (my mum being a German:-). We do say these things about Americans- funny cause we Czechs (yeah, I consider myself to be a Czech) are like the second fattest state in Europe (after Germany :-).
So sorry, that you have suffered- I have heard about Slovak's curves from my mum all the time, so I can relate. .
And what happens in a family stays in a family? We even have a saying that goes stg like this: a mother's skirt covers every bad thing.

However, it is true that we don't hug/touch (only shaking hands) ppl that much, like our personal space, don't like to show emotions in public and consider Americans to be , among other things, nosy. (BTW going to a T carries a social stigma here, so only my parents know I am going and I sometimes do feel ashamed.)

You have to understand, before 89 Americans were like gods to us- compared to Russians, it is not hard to imagine. But now, well, we are getting pretty cynical about our gods...

However, TBH, we like to make fun of every nation we know and mostly of our small country. Patriotism is a concept unknown to us.
We don't mean to be cruel but humour is our way to survive and we do have a pretty dry, black humour, which I love.

Haha, thanks for making me feel not so alone/crazy about my own family's opinions! Everything you said rings true, especially about the Slovak curves (my mom was always going on about "American women and their big breasts" while somehow conveniently ignoring the fact that her daughter had double DDs). And yes, my parents, esp. my mom, can be pretty funny. Now, my mother is OK with me going to a T b/c she is more Americanized and I was pretty depressed b/f I started going, but my dad is convinced I am my T's only client.
I remember when I was younger my mom talking about how Americans had therapists for every little thing, meanwhile her parents were running from the Nazis and didn't need therapy. SO I can totally relate to you!

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by earthmamma

I wonder if you had said do coloured people kiss their teeth and say "wats up man" if it would have seemed quite as acceptable as the blatant discrimination about Germans?

I'm sorry I offended you.

But rereading my post, I still don't see what there is to be offended about.