[CantExplain]

Hi guys!

When CSA was mentioned in the good group, I thought I saw T being triggered: she got tense and breathed harder. But I've never mentioned that before today.

For the first half hour we talked about how I knew something about her that I wasn't supposed to know. I felt guilty. It was like I had accidentally seen her naked (her words). And that would interfere with my idealisation of her.

This (idealisation) is an internal conflict for me. I have always tried to put her on a pedestal with one hand and knock her down with the other.

Anyway, half an hour in, I told her what I had seen: she was triggered by talk of CSA, and I thought that it was something personal.

She refuted the whole scenario: she hadn't been triggered and she'd never been abused. I was wrong.

But how would I have felt if I was right? I thought about this, and I realised that (beyond all reason) I would feel ashamed that I hadn't been there to protect her.

And then I realised this was another case of transference, but this time she was my daughter. It's a rough world, and sooner or later my daughter is going to get hurt. And there is nothing I can do to prevent it.

Worse: when she was a child she would often wake up screaming with sore feet, and there was nothing I could do about it. Not even stroke her hair and rub her feet? My wife always did that, leaving nothing for me to do. I was helpless in the face of my daughter's pain, and I still am.

[CantExplain]

We also rehashed an old idea, but maybe we got just a little bit further that before. I hope so.

When I first met T and she was operating in rigid blank slate mode, I guessed first that she was a lesbian, and then that she was living with two men at once. What's that about?

The answer is that I didn't want to think of her as ordinary. (There's the pedestal again.) And in fact, her living arrangements were very conventional. She was living with her husband and two daughters.

(I apologise anyone who insists that being lesbian is ordinary.)

Anyway, she said that I insisted on being special and refused to be ordinary. Old news. When I challenged her, she admitted that she felt sorry for me because being special is very lonely.

This annoys me because it never seems to go anywhere. The only new feature is that I didn't want her to be ordinary either.

(She also said she thought I value quantity over quality, which seems to contradict everything else on this page.)

Is my T ordinary?
Can I be ordinary?
Would I be happier if I was?

What T and I have in each other is very special. Why would I want to replace that special relationship with something ordinary?

[stopdog]

CE you will not be able to protect your daughter from ever getting hurt, but you will be able to be there for her as her dad when it happens. And that is no small feat.

[roads]

A very weighty session. A new awareness of connectedness, a reawakening of helplessness when it comes to your daughter ...

For what it's worth, fathers and daughters can develop good relationships in adulthood for which there was no hope in earlier life. My dad and I did. ((((CantExplain)))) Just keep putting one day in line with another.
Roadie

[ColourBars]

Originally Posted by CantExplain

Is my T ordinary?
Can I be ordinary?
Would I be happier if I was?

What T and I have in each other is very special. Why would I want to replace that special relationship with something ordinary?

Seems like pretty heavy thinking. I don't know if there's a definite answer for "Why would I want to replace that special relationship with something ordinary?".

It kinda seems like looking for a label for the relationship. What's ordinary, what's not. I think the relationship is just, is. No more, no less, kinda thing?

However, I do agree if you have a pretty good relationship with your T, it is quite an extraordinary one, I think because of all the judgement and stigma of therapy.

But waht do I know?

[InTherapy]

Originally Posted by CantExplain

Anyway, half an hour in, I told her what I had seen: she was triggered by talk of CSA, and I thought that it was something personal.

She refuted the whole scenario: she hadn't been triggered and she'd never been abused. I was wrong.

Am I the only one who's first thought was, "She might have been lying,"?

T's don't generally disclose unless they think it will ACTIVELY help you, right? If they had some reason to think it would impede your treatment (for instance, feelings of guilt?) or if it would neither help nor hurt, they might not disclose.

I personally tend to trust my observations like that. People do things for a reason.

[stopdog]

I think perhaps it is possible her response was due to preparing herself to handle the fallout/discussion from csa in a group therapy situation or because of what she knew about the speaker or because of what she knew about the listeners = she was thinking about and reacting to what she was possibly going to have to handle as the therapist or any of a number of other things. If I had seen what you described, I would not go to she had dealt with csa herself (your bias - wanting to protect her, know her vulnerabilities etc) but to my own bias (they protect themselves, have a horrible job and have to steel themselves to deal with a group of people who are going to react and she is going to have to contain it somehow etc.)
It is not that what you observed physically was incorrect, it is the interpretation that has more than one possibility.

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by stopdog

I think perhaps it is possible her response was due to preparing herself to handle the fallout/discussion from csa in a group therapy situation or because of what she knew about the speaker or because of what she knew about the listeners = she was thinking about and reacting to what she was possibly going to have to handle as the therapist or any of a number of other things. If I had seen what you described, I would not go to she had dealt with csa herself (your bias - wanting to protect her, know her vulnerabilities etc) but to my own bias (they protect themselves, have a horrible job and have to steel themselves to deal with a group of people who are going to react and she is going to have to contain it somehow etc.)
It is not that what you observed physically was incorrect, it is the interpretation that has more than one possibility.

Thanks. That was very helpful.

She denied that she felt triggered, but she could nevertheless have been tensing herself. She might have high empathy for CSA from professional experience alone.

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by ColourBars

Seems like pretty heavy thinking. I don't know if there's a definite answer for "Why would I want to replace that special relationship with something ordinary?".

It kinda seems like looking for a label for the relationship. What's ordinary, what's not. I think the relationship is just, is. No more, no less, kinda thing?

However, I do agree if you have a pretty good relationship with your T, it is quite an extraordinary one, I think because of all the judgement and stigma of therapy.

But what do I know?

She often accuses me of intellectualising, but maybe she does the same.

Too abstract! Try to stay grounded, people!

You know what struck me about the whole scenario? If someone had cornered me and insisted on a public confession of CSA that way, I would have felt mortified. You just don't do that to a person. That was my reaction anyway. But I don't think she was lying to you either.

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by CantExplain

Anyway, she said that I insisted on being special and refused to be ordinary. Old news. When I challenged her, she admitted that she felt sorry for me because being special is very lonely.

This annoys me because it never seems to go anywhere.

I am angry that she keeps bringing this up.
I may not be widely loved, but I do have friends and they do love me.
And contrary to what T said, I value quality over quantity in my relationships.

I am scared that these relationships won't be easy to replace. But if it takes me a long time to make new friends, I don't see that "being special" has anything to do with that.

I don't believe that I am widely resented or hated.

I suspect some kind of counter-transference and I am annoyed that I will now have to challenge her on that.

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by farmergirl

You know what struck me about the whole scenario? If someone had cornered me and insisted on a public confession of CSA that way, I would have felt mortified. You just don't do that to a person. That was my reaction anyway. But I don't think she was lying to you either.

This is precisely the reason I never raised it before. I had no desire to corner her her or wring a confession out of her. She was under no pressure to confirm or deny my speculations.

We were talking about my feelings in response to what I thought I saw. She encouraged that.

[granite1]

just wondering what your idea of being special is??? i think you are a great person .

why would your T think special is lonely.Special is a strange word to me i guess.

i have tatoos and piercings that are on parts of my body that you dont usually see them. i feel they are special to me and mean a lot. if others don't see them as special it is of no concequence to me.EXCEPT DOC'S THAT ASK IF I USE DRUGS BECAUSE I HAVE PIERCINGS.anyway i think everyone is special in some ways no one is alike and why would that be lonely.i would hate to be ordinary.now that i think would be borring.

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by granite1

just wondering what your idea of being special is??? i think you are a great person .

why would your T think special is lonely.Special is a strange word to me i guess.

i have tatoos and piercings that are on parts of my body that you dont usually see them. i feel they are special to me and mean a lot. if others don't see them as special it is of no concequence to me.EXCEPT DOC'S THAT ASK IF I USE DRUGS BECAUSE I HAVE PIERCINGS.anyway i think everyone is special in some ways no one is alike and why would that be lonely.i would hate to be ordinary.now that i think would be borring.

Even more to the point, what does my T mean by special? I shall have to ask her to be more specific.

But that will have to wait until the session after next, because next session I'm going to talk to her about email.

[sittingatwatersedge]

Originally Posted by stopdog

CE you will not be able to protect your daughter from ever getting hurt, but you will be able to be there for her as her dad when it happens. And that is no small feat.

AND you will not be the one doing the hurting. Believe me, that is worth gold to yr daughter. Don't sell yourself short!

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by CantExplain

She also said she thought I value quantity over quality...

Does she mean that I always do everything to excess?
Cos that's certainly true.

Funny way to say it, though.