Therapy Question

To do their job as well as they can. That's not my responsibility but it is my responsibility to make sure that I am 100% happy with the job they are doing and/or to fire them and hire another, etc. It's my "problems" that I am hiring this person to help me with. If they help me or not is not their problem but mine; they can only do their best and I have to decide if it is helping me or if I want to try something else. . . It's not a different species of helper; I feel the same about my physical health care helpers, my dental care, my accountant (if I had one :-) my lawyer, insurance agent, cleaner, lawn maintenance guy, etc.

Okay, you might not like this response, Stopdog, but I'm going to say it anyway. If you know this about your own process of teaching, why the heck do you need a therapist to tell you what she is doing and why she is doing it???? I get it that unaware, naive students need this guidance and enlightenment, but someone who is seasoned, well read and intelligent can seek out their own answers ... and if they reach a point that they feel is difficult or cognitively clouding, he/she has the intellectual fortitude and cognitive strength to challenge and question their mentor/therapist (I sure know that I've done that with my own therapist and instructors in the past). Guess what? I have no doubt that you've done this many times with your academic mentors/instructors. What stops you from doing this with you therapist? And if she doesn't respond, why do you stay?

I'm guessing from how you've described your sessions that your therapist already understands how intelligent and aware you are, and she doesn't feel the need to condecend to explain the therapeutic process to you.

Realistically, psychology is not cut and dry like the law is. It is a fluid and nebulous "non-science". It isn't for people who want concrete and firm answers. If you are truly seeking firm and concete answers, I'm not sure what "science" you need to search out for your personal answers. It sure ain't psychotherapy!

I know that I might seem dismissing in my response, but I truly don't understand you continued search of a therapeutic answer when you are so oppossed to connection, intimacy and attachment. I say that because I have my own very significant issues with those things. From a very young age, I have always seen them as see them as silly, unnecessary and bothersome.

Recently through study and personal self-examination, I've come to realize that others in our society need these things, seek them out and find great comfort in them. I've come to realize that the people that I thought were weak or insecure, were the people who were truly the healthy and advanced ones. They were the people who understood what they needed and wanted. They were the people who sought out and got what they needed. I see myself as missing a "chip" in my brain; I miss out in not realizing and not seeking out what I need and want from others.

My responsibility was to take care of me. It was never my therapist's responsibilty to take care of me or to cater to me. If I wanted or need something, then I need to specifically ask for it. And if I wasn't satisfied with the answer, than I needed to move on. BUT, if I wasn't satisfied, I needed to examine if it was because the answer the person gave me didn't MATCH my view of how the answer should be . .. I say that because if I'm truly honest with myself, I HATE being wrong and if the answer doesn't match my PERSONAL response, I'm not often inclined to buy it. Just my take on things

IF I ask the therapist a question about therapy - I expect her to answer it. The one I see usually refuses, the second one I see answers. I see no problem with asking for explanation. I have no problem with others wanting to be connected, attached, have intimacy or or whatever - that is up to them - I would not call them weak or anything. Others seem often to want a whole lot more of it than I can see the point in, but it is up to them. That I don't understand it has no bearing on them. I have enough connection and attachment with other people for me. I see no point to it with a therapist - but I have as much as I want with other people.

The law is not cut and dried - it is very fluid.

I am glad you had something work for you.

AHA! I THOUGHT SO! That's that feeling I get, that they won't go "faster" than I show them I am able to go. But sometimes I feel like it's THEM (okay, they) who are falling behind. BUT - then i'm afraid to SAY anything, so - yep, that's their point. I'm not taking responsibility then.

[quote=stopdog;2382345]IF I ask the therapist a question about therapy - I expect her to answer it. The one I see usually refuses,quote]

And most respectfully, I ask, then why do you continue to see this particular therapist?
I get it if she connects with you on some level. I get it on a personal level if you feel connected and/or attached on some level you can't describe or can't identify. For me, it is connection on some un named level ... in some way I can't fully describe. But if you are irritated or frustrated by her failure to answer your most honest, basic and respectful questions, then why would you continue to see her?

And from what politicians are saying about the legal system and day to day regulation of our legal system. I say this and include our Supreme Court; I'm not sure I agree with your view of the US legal system as being fluid. I sure do feel that things are going to go severelly rigid if our current political party fails! Just my take on things.

[QUOTE=Jaybird57;2382384]I am working towards not going back to the first one.

The reason I say law is fluid is because we can argue any point more than one way. I can argue for or against any situation in more than one way. That is at least one of the main things that law school teaches students to do. The fact that laws become more or less draconian and judges and juries more or less conservative, does not mean there is not fluidity. One person accused of a crime gets convicted, his co-defendant gets acquitted. And so forth. The application of the law is not fair or just in most situations. It just helps keep chaos down.

[quote=The reason I say law is fluid is because we can argue any point more than one way. I can argue for or against any situation in more than one way. That is at least one of the main things that law school teaches students to do--pick a side, find the research to defend that side and fight like hell to defend your view!

The fact that laws become more or less draconian and judges and juries more or less become conservative, does not mean there is not fluidity in the whole system. One person might get accused of a crime and subsequently convicted, but we might find that his co-defendant gets acquitted. That's the course of law. Sometimes it goes your way; sometimes it doesn't. The application of the law is not fair or just in most situations. It just helps keep chaos down<---love that because it is sooooo soooooo true!

I have to admit that I don't understand your rejection of psychotherapy. It isn't any different. It is fluid. .. .personally I see it like slippery liquid silver. It intrigues me and puzzles me. In therapy, I can "agrue against any situation" my therapist poses, and she can't really deny what I say is untrue. She can disagree. She can look at it from HER theraperaputic standpoint/therapuetic rational. .. but when the sun sets, it's gonna me who get to be the one who is left. Unfortunately, we STILL haven't learned how to merge Biology and and mathematics. What a waste!

It's so strange (well, perhaps not) that chaos was mentioned on this thread.

Sometimes I think therapy is about creating emotional chaos - at the very least a perturbed equilibrium, because it is at those moments of "teetering" that the most change, opportunity, and re-birth occurs.

In fact, I've told my therapist that the whole process had turned me into a total emotional train wreck. He turned his head slightly to the side as if he were going to say, "there, there", but smiled and said "good for you!".

I have never wanted to slap a human more in my entire life.

I think we have to be willing to accept and move toward that kind of emotional chaos and take the inevitable risk that follows. That's our work in therapy, but everyone's work is different.

It's the work of the therapist I think to help us ferret out for ourselves which kind of personal chaos we need to confront.

Thus, to answer the question, the real heavy lifting is ours to do.

I'm not saying that the therapist cannot try to get things started repeatedly.

They can't mind read. They can only discover you and what they aren't getting if you tell them.

Actually, think of it like tennis. The T hits the ball the client hits it back. You can't get much accomplished if the client won't hit the ball back and it would be crazy to expect the T to keep hitting the ball with no return from the client. The T can hit the ball a bit to see if they can get it started.

It would be a really unhealthy T who worked harder then her clients all the time. They would burn out.

I think I'm going to need a gloss - what do you mean by "empowered" in this context? Because this sounds like a cart-before-horse scenario to me.

To become empowered you have to try (and then deal with all of the issues that come up that are keeping you from being there). I'm a jump in type of gal. This is how I solve problems.

I guess I see us at times as having different responsibilities rather than a share of the "same cake".

Sometimes the only thing I can commit to is turning up, at those times I would expect T to shift his input accordingly.

Ultimately no-one but me is responsible for my life, but if I am temporarily unable to take care of myself, I would expect someone to temporarily take on that role for me.

SD

That IS a good example! They match their game to our skill level. As we improve and grow, they play harder, too. Really, really good example. Thanks, Sannah.

Yes, I know, and I appreciate it (even though I'm totally different myself).

It's just that to me, I think that becoming more empowered is one goal for my therapy. Though perhaps it's not. The term is genuinely a bit baffling to me.

Perhaps that is the problem. I am playing bridge and the therapist keeps hitting tennis balls at my head.

I think this is all completely true. There is a difference though between being unwilling/uncooperative/resistant and being unable.

I believe it is a job for the therapist to help find out why a client is unwilling or uncooperative (assuming one should be cooperative which I do not). Resistance is usually a pejorative label therapists put on clients when they cannot figure out how to help. Some therapists recognize resistance as just something to work with - and I think is a good thing for a therapist to do.

You keep trying to trump her, she keeps going to love?

Completely agree about the therapist working to find a way through resistance (don't agree that therapists use it as a label to rationalize their own inabilities). The bottom line though is, even if the therapist figures out the resistance issues and tries to help the client work through them, if the client flat out refuses to work the process, nothing is going to happen. If the client continues to fight, resist, deny, etc., forward movement just isn't going to happen. That isn't a failure on the therapists part necessarily. The therapist can't walk the walk for the client. They can't do it for us.

Definitely she does not keep going to love. Not only not keep going - she has never been there in the first place.

hahahahahahahaaaaa

Thank goodness for that - I don't want the therapist anywhere near it. But they do have to realize that they do not get to set the agenda or the goal and if the client does not agree - it is not resistance.

idk, if love = attachment? I just read your couch comment. you try to trump her by cancelling? I mean, trump IS a thing in bridge, right? you made the joke, not me - not that I won't STEAL the joke... it's a darn good one.

Thanks. Trump is bridge. Your joke was good too. I was trying to joke back about the idea of the therapist and love = a combination which is horrifying to me.