[Snuffleupagus]

So, I've been experiencing some freedom from old problems with my mom as a result of my relationship with T. I laid down a boundary with her that I wasn't going to act as her therapist anymore. I visited my parents this weekend, and I held that boundary firm. She blathered on about her calls to a crisis line (because she refuses to get a real therapist despite being well able to afford it). And I made no response. None. She was dead in the water. It felt good.

My dad was another matter. I gave him a Father's day card just saying that I was glad we had a more peaceful relationship than we used to. His response was to say, "Oh that reminds me of when I beat you up when you came out." like it was some sort of neutral memory for him. I feel like I'm in some sort of bizarro world when I'm there. I said, "Yeah, good times," because I was so stunned, and the conversation moved on. Had a decent visit from there on out.

The old man is dying but he still has all these projects he's working on. So, he showed them all to my partner and me. Then, right before he left, he said it reminded him of when I was little and we would walk around our big yard and look at all the progress of the stuff he was growing which is kinda a sweet memory--nice times we had before I started committing the offense of having an independent mind. Out of the blue he says, "Then, came that fateful day when you came to me and said you were going to study philosophy, and I thought 'Jesus, what a horseshit life choice that is.'"

So from left field. WTF! I felt punched in the gut and just said, "I'm gonna go now." I left, but cried and raged the whole hour home about how I was never gonna go see the effer again. Then, there was a sincere apology on my answering machine from him when I got home saying he truly didn't mean to hurt me, that he really enjoyed my visit, and hoped I'd come back. I am so torn. It's like he's retarded when it comes to relationships. If it was almost anyone else, it would just roll off my back but it is hard to just absorb the blows from my own dad's retardation. I don't know what to do or how to respond. I just wish this sh it was easier.

[SpiritRunner]

Way to go in holding the boundary with your mother; that had to have felt really good indeed. She must have been disconcerted to find herself dead in the water!
And I am sorry about the way it went with your dad .... he does sound quite limited/handicapped when it comes to understanding relationships and communication, very tactless and oblivious, but probably not deliberately malicious, if I get the right perception here. But it was nice I guess that he was able to realize afterwards that he must have been hurtful, to seemingly regret it, and to understand an apology would be a good course of action. Maybe approaching death makes him feel more regret about it and want to try to not totally lose/destroy whatever relationships he has before his time comes .....
I see how you'd feel torn. I guess the thing to do (at least I guess how I'd try to approach it) is to be as gracious as possible in accepting his apology at face value, be as compassionate as possible, not withhold visits but probably limit the amount of time you spend, just for your emotional health/sanity.

[unaluna]

Well, your dad's not denying what he did. He's not apologizing for it, either, but he is acknowledging it, somewhat thoughtfully. Is he on any meds that might be making him disinhibited? I wonder if your tears are bittersweet - his humor is darker than yours.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by SpiritRunner

Way to go in holding the boundary with your mother; that had to have felt really good indeed. She must have been disconcerted to find herself dead in the water!
And I am sorry about the way it went with your dad .... he does sound quite limited/handicapped when it comes to understanding relationships and communication, very tactless and oblivious, but probably not deliberately malicious, if I get the right perception here. But it was nice I guess that he was able to realize afterwards that he must have been hurtful, to seemingly regret it, and to understand an apology would be a good course of action. Maybe approaching death makes him feel more regret about it and want to try to not totally lose/destroy whatever relationships he has before his time comes .....
I see how you'd feel torn. I guess the thing to do (at least I guess how I'd try to approach it) is to be as gracious as possible in accepting his apology at face value, be as compassionate as possible, not withhold visits but probably limit the amount of time you spend, just for your emotional health/sanity.

It did feel good to watch her spin--like she was waiting for me to enter the dance and I didn't.

Your characterization of him is pretty accurate, I think. I kinda know that I need to accept the apology, but I think I'm just stalling because it will be very uncomfortable.

Originally Posted by hankster

Well, your dad's not denying what he did. He's not apologizing for it, either, but he is acknowledging it, somewhat thoughtfully. Is he on any meds that might be making him disinhibited? I wonder if your tears are bittersweet - his humor is darker than yours.

The tears felt VERY complicated. He's on a slew of meds, but the man has never been what you would call "inhibited." How can anyone's humor be darker than mine? He said he meant it humorously, but I just don't see it. Maybe you're right, h. At any rate, I gain nothing by not taking his claims to be true. I do love him, however screwed up he is, but that is NOT how I felt on the ride home yesterday.

If he's at least making the effort to give you a sincere apology, and you know he's dying, you already know what you're going to end up doing, Snuff. I am sorry this is so hard and so painful. We'll all be here to support you as you go through this.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by My kids are cool

If he's at least making the effort to give you a sincere apology, and you know he's dying, you already know what you're going to end up doing, Snuff. I am sorry this is so hard and so painful. We'll all be here to support you as you go through this.

Yeah, I wrote him an email and told him his apology was helpful. Then I committed to going again by reaffirming I'd bring him some stanky wheat cat litter that he can spread around his grapes to ward off birds. We're not a normal family.

[Perna]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

It's like he's retarded when it comes to relationships.

Why do you think he is not? They haven't had the benefit of therapy as you have. Their parents were not a whole lot different from them, didn't teach them this stuff. As your father said, he doesn't "mean" to hurt you, that's not his intent, he's trying to figure stuff out in his own life before he dies, just like all of us are and sounds like he's got some pretty bizarre stuff.

You like philosophy; have you ever thought of your father, so against your relationship, and his love of flowers/growing things? You think his father allowed him to garden when he was growing up? Can you imagine that? If you go back to see him, and I hope you will, can you ask him about some of his stories, learn what your grandparents were like and his life was like when he was growing up?

My stepmother's mother didn't know how to drive, learned as an adult (since cars were "new" back turn of the century; she married in 1913) and, apparently, wasn't very good at it. My stepmother says she and her brothers would duck down in their seats so their friends would not see them with her. Think how thoughtless/hurtful that must have felt to the mother, their not wanting to be seen with her? Certainly does not help a mother's self-esteem to not be wanted by her children?

I don't think I think of things enough from the other person's possible perspective. I remember my shock when my therapist mildly pointed out that I was not all ease of use and biddable child? Some of the things that hurt or shamed me as a child had to have been much worse for my stepmother as she could understand them; part of my pain was caused by my own actions and my misunderstanding! I did embarrassing and thoughtless things and then was hurt and embarrassed but tried to blame the adult/setup of the situation or my ignorance.

Hey, it was all me and just plain dumb to take a bunch of different colored, permanent markers and polka dot my face with them! That I got two college girls in trouble, who were supposed to be watching me (but had other children to watch too) and upset them and made my poor mother have to soothe them and explain she understood and then have to walk around with a polka dotted face; that's not someone else's fault!

I don't think any relationship is easy, and the parental one evolves more than any other. We start at the beginning and grow, the 20 years or so we are with them are just about change; we don't change that much in the next 20 years, just our roles do!

I think because we are changing, growing, learning, etc. we see the rest of the world as moving; kind of like happened with me over the weekend, when I was in a docked boat but the boat next to us started to back out of its bearth, it looked/felt like we were moving! But when we're growing, doing our first 20 years, our parents are doing their second 20 and are more "set" in who they are, how they relate, etc.

Their roles change, they have mates and children, work at jobs, get promotions, etc. and have to adjust to those roles but "they" do not change as much as we are changing. So, there are bound to be difficulties. We cannot begin to understand them because we haven't been at their age yet; the older one gets and the more roles one tries out, the better one is able to think about and understand what another may have been going through at "this" sort of time.

I would keep your relationship with your parents if you can; I would look at it as an opportunity for you and your learning about yourself and the world around you. You won't get another chance to interact with your father, to try things out you think of that might work with communication, to "practice" interacting with people who are reminded of your philosophy interests while looking at flowers their father did not allow them to cultivate? Weird things go on inside people's heads Surely you know that is true for you and that your father has not learned to not blurt out what's going on in his but leave out the references, that happens. My loving husband's favorite refrain with me is, "I don't hear any nouns!" Imagine that for a moment, what it might be like for him to try to converse with me, LOL

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Yeah, I wrote him an email and told him his apology was helpful. Then I committed to going again by reaffirming I'd bring him some stanky wheat cat litter that he can spread around his grapes to ward off birds. We're not a normal family.

I was relieved when I got up this morning and saw that you had taken my response the way I meant it. It was late, I was tired, sick and depressed and then was worried after I went to bed that the response had not sounded in print the way I meant it in my head.

I just knew, from how supportive, kind and understanding you are on here that you were not going to be able to NOT see your father, in light of his sincere effort. You have been an amazing source of support and inspiration for me on here. I am sorry things are so difficult for you right now and if there's anything I can do to help, I will.

[ListenMoreTalkLess]

There are people in my family that we visit occasionally, and for not too long a time, on the theory that we don't expect them to be any different than they have shown us that they are. The grandfather who is a pathological liar and who rarely keeps his commitments to be where he says he will be without making up some outrageous excuse (I have food poisoning! My GPS couldn't direct me properly to [National Landmark]! etc) will be invited somewhere to meet us where we will enjoy being even when he doesn't show up. We remind ourselves that his inability to show up is not a reflection of us or how much he cares about us. If he does happen to show up, it's with gift cards and he takes us all out to eat and we have a great time and we're happy to see him. The other grandfather sounds a lot like your father, who makes biting and mean comments regularly, then acts surprised when you call him on it. He does not do this to the kids in the family, only the adults, usually when the kids are not around. I have found that when I expect him to be biting and mean, it's a whole lot less painful when he does it. I don't think I"m immune to it even after years of this strategy, but it's a lot better to be a whole lot less reactive to it.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by My kids are cool

:

I just knew, from how supportive, kind and understanding you are on here that you were not going to be able to NOT see your father, in light of his sincere effort. You have been an amazing source of support and inspiration for me on here. I am sorry things are so difficult for you right now and if there's anything I can do to help, I will.

Thanks for saying that. It's been a privilege to bear witness to your journey as well. I really needed a boost. I had the dad thing on Saturday, and I got in a fight with my partner on Sunday (which is really rare). So, I just feel kinda emotionally exhausted today. I had T today, and she said some of the same things you did. I need to hear it cuz I feel the pull of depressive self-hatred trying to suck my feet into a spiraling black hole, and God help me, part of me just wants to surrender. What is up with that part?

Sh it, I need to meditate. Thankfully, I've got another T appt. on Friday, and my last final exam is tomorrow, so it'll help to have some of that stress off.

Thanks to everyone who replied for your support.