T embarrassed me!

I do have problem with people requesting love and hugs.

grandmother from father's side did this. very manipulative creature.

Some people may be triggered by those asking for love and hugs...and that would be something for you to explore to help understand where that stems from, what feelings were evoked for you....and to learn how to separate your grandmother from the rest of the people in the world.

It's important for many of us to learn to ask for what we need....so asking for love and hugs may be a huge step for someone who doesn't typically put themselves out there, who strive to deny their needs and be totally independent.

As with most things, they fall on a continuum. It takes a lot of work and risk taking to work towards finding our place in the middle.

I am sry that this happened to you. And I respect that. And it is your choice whether you give or ask for them.

Rainbow, just a first reaction to this post and the ones that preceded it. I say this as gently as possible in writing-- you need to confront and deal with your need to see the "attention" and other things that people give you as perpetually deficient. You do get responses, every time you post a thread, you are NOT ignored. Certainly you realize the lack of logic-- suggesting that emotions rule-- in posting AFTER people have responded to say you're being ignored?

Pema Chodron has a new book (or at least new this year) and she references what I think is an amazing book written by a brain researcher who had a stroke (My Stroke of Insight). She studies the neurobiology of emotion, and she reported that the life of an emotion (in the brain itself, from trigger to where the brain lets it go) is 90 seconds. So if you get angry, that emotion does its neurological cycle and is over after 90 seconds. If it's lasting longer, then we're doing something to reactivate it, like pouring gasoline on a fire. I've found this concept to be really useful for me lately. If I notice what I'm feeling, I attend to it, maybe think about what it's about, try to drop the "storyline" (typical interpretation about what it means), I find it goes on its way and leaves me alone. I can usually wait out those 90 seconds.

But, going back to your T, that piece of how you felt that she left you thinking about sex and feeling shame, that seems like it doesn't belong to you. Or your T. That seems to belong to your brother. It just sits squarely on my CSA bones, if that makes any sense.

Not your shame, that is what was put upon you. And you feeling (not acting) sexual towards anyone is not anything that any of us can control. Shame is not something that we are born with, with respect to sexuality. Anyone who's had a kid knows that kids are NOT ashamed of their bodies, quite the opposite, shame about our bodies and feeling good is what is put upon us.

It's taken me a long time, but I think of my lust (my word for feeling sexual towards someone) as something that is really important to me. I like to count on my lust. I like to know that if I am still lusting, I am still pretty much alive. Even though I've been married a long time, sometimes my more subtle feelings for my H wax and wane, but I can always count on my lust. And before I was married, people came in and out of my life, but my lust was always with me. I guess I'm saying that lust, feeling sexual, is a healthy and very human response. Lust isn't the problem, feeling sexual towards someone, T or not, isn't the problem. It's what we think people do about with their lust (what we've been taught people do, or what we've watched people do) that's the problem, and that's what people often have something to be embarrassed about, not the feelings themselves.

I think this incident with your T has brought up something very important for you to work on, and it seems to go back to your brother, and the aftereffects of that. I'm just really sorry that you had to experience that growing up, and that you have to heal from it now. But you are really on your way, don't give up.

I am not a big believer in others deciding what someone else needs or needs to do or should do, or what is in someone else's best interest or for their own good.

Therapy does hurt. Ts have to break through the denial and let you see the truth. That's always painful.

My thoughts on this, Rainbow, is that your therapist might have made the mistake of stating HER interpretation of the situation before first diving in and exploring what you felt. I'm not saying that you would have been able to recognize any erotic/sexualized feelings, especially because this area seems so sensitive and shameful to you, but it might have given her a better reading on what was going on for you "in the moment" if she had explored this a bit before stating what "she" felt was happening.

Perhaps your therapist misread the moment. Heck, that happens! Our therapist's are human and don't always get it right . . . hence the term, countertransferance. All therapists would like to believe that they have a firm and steady hand on their countertransference feelings, but reality is, those feelings are slippery little suckers and they misinterprete all the time. I hope that you and your therapist are able to work this through!

rain she seemed to be more concerned that you were trying to get your needs for human comfort (non-sexual or sexual I'm not sure) from her instead of your H ... maybe you need to focus on that more? and then the wanting hugs here seems to be an extension of that ....
nothing unusual about this ... or uncommon since so many of us are comfort starved ... but your t is the one person you are paying to help you get that need met through your h and through people other than her .... so calling you out on this was to try and help you ... isn't that part of why you are in therapy?

in response to a question Rain asked...

I can understand not wanting your thread hi jacked, but to reprimand people for NOT liking or hugging or commenting on your thread? Or getting upset they liked what someone else said? We all gather support through each other, various ways. Be it via others comments, OP threads etc. We in turn respond to those people with thanks or hugs or additional comments. People create threads to share their stories or look for advice or to get a nod of understanding from someone going through the same situation. I think a good thread evolves into a round table discussion that will help the OP as it may help others. But comments like the one above lead me to believe that your intention when creating a thread is to have everyone stop what they are doing and respond to and acknowledge only you and only what you have to say.... and ,I am not trying to be mean here, but can you not see where it makes you come off a little selfish and entitled? PC is a team sport. It only works if we all play together.

Okay, so maybe I am a bleeding-heart liberal here but I believe that behaviors occur for a reason and that the way to reducing the behaviors is to find the root cause. Getting stuck and reenacting the past over and over is not a place I would want to be (been there, am there sometimes), and rainbow, I truly feel for you. I am sad that you have been unable to yet find your way to peace.

My wish for you is that you could find validation and acceptance within yourself (also a wish for me). You deserve to be kind to yourself, you deserve to accept yourself. Best of luck on your journey.

Being new here and not being familiar with a history, I really can't comment on the appropriateness of the thread, nor its intentions.

But responding to the session event, as it's been described, does bring up some thoughts. The therapy situation can be emotionally charged by definition. What the emotions are and how they're shown can vary from time to time. But examining how all those emotions resonate within both client and T can be valuable.

Ts can be highly observant and empathic. They can, and do, often sense feelings in us that we are not consciously aware of. In part, I think it's because of both their knowledge of how the mind works, and having examined themselves to know where their own sensitivities are and are not. This can allow them to be intuitive in an emotionally clear way. That's one version of counter transference. It's a benefit to us.

The other kind of counter transference comes from a sensitivity that the T is unaware of or has not resolved in themselves, and this is not beneficial to us.

I don't know if your T's "reading" of this experience as sexual was right or wrong. But it's possible that she is feeling a general emotional arousal in you, out of scale with what is going on in the therapy, and focused upon her, which is perhaps distracting from therapy.

That heightened emotional "pull" toward therapy and your T may be dysfunctional in that it could be resulting from an unhealthy, distracting need in you. And that may be the same need that some here are reacting to, as well.

With this sort of situation, the felt gratification of therapy and interaction with T becomes the focus of your attention--rather than self-understanding and discovery being central.

It's a fine line between getting formerly unmet needs met, and traumas addressed so that we can move on, and remaining in a child state of endless gratification to avoid moving on. The latter is often experienced by others as an inappropriate neediness.

A good T will be alert to this sensed perception, and will adapt so as to not continue to encourage that need. And will slowly try to bring it to a client's attention. Sometimes the client quits therapy at that point, or finds another T who may begin the "honeymoon" phase all over again. Sometimes, the client interprets these behaviors as a rupture. Sometimes, the client remains stuck.

And sometimes, client and T are a good enough match of readiness and expertise to use the experience productively. I hope this will be true for you.

I am going to reply to the posts one at a time so it may take me a while.

lonely, it may seem like the exact same things to you, but to me they aren't. I am doing a new kind of therapy, somatic experiencing, and it is nothing I have ever done in past therapies. Also, when I was in therapy before, I wasted a lot of time "not talking". It was like pulling teeth. I wasn't used to telling anyone my feelings, believe it or not! I know it's easy to judge someone on how long they've been in therapy, but sometimes that's misleading. I do think I'm changing! I didn't want to be the only one posting in that "gratefulness" thread but I plan to post again. I have only been in DBT for a few months. Supposedly, it takes 2 six month cycles to really integrate the skills into one's life. I appreciate that you're not being critical of me. Thank you. Maybe I just need antidepressants. It's the only treatment I haven't tried. No meds because I am sensitive to them, and T has suggested them tentatively in the past.

Yes, I wanted to tell granite but I think I forgot to, that the above was VERY insightful! I do focus on core issues in therapy. A lot of them, but this is a psychotherapy forum so I write about my T relationship issues here.
I'm still not exactly sure which behavior but I suppose you mean getting angry and saying "no one likes me" and "why can't I have hugs". I don't do these things in RL. I get angry quietly when I think people are rejecting me. Yes, sometimes that happens but I'd be too embarrassed to ask them to like me or give me hugs. I have friends who care about me and treat me respectfully so it doesn't come up in RL. I thought it was safe here to be honest but I know I haven't learned how to express myself properly. The truth is that I was hurting badly and when I saw 2 responses and "thanks" to farmer girl, I was triggered into thinking that no one cares enough to respond to me. I felt "ganged up" upon. I realize that was inaccurate. Plus, farmergirl's response wasn't hurtful; it was good! I'm probably not explaining it as well as I could. Bottom line: it triggered me because I was disappointed and hurting. I should have just been more patient and used DBT skills.

Thank you, granite. Your advice all makes sense. I have to be patient; Tuesday will be here soon. It's so hard for me to wait. I'm like a little kid; I want to fix it NOW. I tried to talk about it in DBT but somehow it didn't help very much because I need my T's feedback, not anyone else's. I mean about what she meant! I welcome your feedback and others on the forum.

I realized I didn't reply to this, Chris. Well, it seemed like my T was not her usual "gentle" self. She reminded me of my former T whom I used to call "blunt T". She acted SO certain it was sexual and that it was "crossing over" without giving me a chance to question or discuss it. Not totally her fault, since it was the end of the session. I see that DBT T picked up on ruminating as one of my target behaviors. I never read anything about it before except for OCD material (I don't know if I have OCD or not). I will read the links you posted to me: thanks! T and I have talked a lot about shame but apparently not enough.

I'd better do a few responses at a time here:

Thank you, lostin08. You brightened up my day!!!!!!

[quote=Readytostop;2712636]That has been one main goal of my therapy, to get my needs met by people in my RL. T NEVER strays away from that goal and I know she's right. I know what she's giving me that I don't get from my H and I don't know how to get it. He can't change who he is! I have friends who give me hugs that satisfy me without being intense like the touching can be with T. I'm being more open with my H and asking for touching which he is happy to do. He thought I didn't LIKE to be touched but I told them that was in the past. Now I DO. So at least that's a little progress. He likes it too.

It could be. I'd be ashamed if I'm bisexual (NO offense to anyone who is, or is gay). But I've always been sure it would be much worse if I saw a male T. I'd be in love with him in no time at all and I'm sure would have those kinds of feelings for him. Whatever the case, I know my T will bring it up with me. She has in the past.

I think I said people don't like me, not that they "hate" me. I said "I hate PC". That was because I feel so bad when I don't get what I want. Yes, that's a pattern in my life. A huge one. I'm disappointed in therapy, I'm disappointed on here, and I'm disappointed by people in RL often. I didn't know how to get more responses, and I wanted them. The hurting part wanted them. I don't KNOW how to get attention in a positive way. If I ask "could I have more responses, please?" won't people think I'm selfish? I can't think of a productive way to word it. People will call me a narcissist again. I feel stuck!

You're right, granite. At the time I posted what I did, I think I had a couple of responses and was afraid my thread would be "lost". I didn't want that to happen. I see others getting support without getting criticized but it was wrong for me to lash out like I did. No, I don't want to go that way. This forum is not a popularity contest but something triggers me from the past to make it that way, sometimes. I have to use DBT skills for this but I'm still learning them.

Yes, I've spoken to T about what my brother did. I even read from his journal that he gave me, where he describes how he did it. Yes, my Mom was alive. I wasn't aware of it so how could she be? I didn't know until I was 21 and I saw his journal. I thought I did say it in the post. I put it in bold because it is important to me. I'm still angry about it. I think my brother may have apologized to me about it, but it was still a violation and abusive behavior. No one knew what he did to the tile and the mirror. He was very clever about it. Yes, I felt unliked and unloved on the forum. Or do you mean by my brother or my parents? I thought people liked me here but the couch forum has made me wonder. I'm better with one on one relationships, not a group. I always knew that. Guess no matter what age we don't give up sometimes, huh?

Could you PLEASE give me a more appropriate way to say: Hey, please don't ignore me. I'm hurting. Is that better or just as selfish?

When I got angry I only had a couple of responses so I felt like no one cared about me. No, I don't hate you or anyone here. Or PC. I just feel left out. It DID work to get more responses. How could I have gotten more in a way that didn't make people angry? I feel like I couldn't have stood it if I got only a couple of replies, that it would mean people except those few, don't care? I realize that's twisted thinking according to DBT but it's my gut immediate reaction, that no one cares!

I think it is insensitive for you to say "at your age", Venus. When you are my age maybe you will see that age is just a number. We really have the same kinds of feelings inside of us no matter what age we are. When my aunt was in a nursing home when she was in her 90's, she would say "I just want someone to touch me, to hold my hand". Clicking the hug button means that someone read my thread and cared enough to respond with a hug. It means "I may not have time to respond, but know that I'm thinking of you." That feels good AT ANY AGE.

I think it's courteous to thank everyone unless their response is directed to someone else. I don't want to make anyone feel bad that I didn't thank them. I DO care what people write and I don't count the hits and hugs. I dislike getting so many hits and no responses though. It makes me feel like I'm --can't think of the word--why do they read if they get triggered and don't want to answer? What do they get out of reading? I HOPE they get something helpful but it makes me wonder. A hug would say "I don't know what to say, but I care." No, I don't expect tons of hugs. I know I can't make myself clear here. It's basically about feeling unwanted and invisible. Yes, I discuss that in therapy.

I know you care, brightheart. I never, ever doubt your caring about me.
I do not think it's totally safe to ask for what I need on this forum anymore. I've gotten criticized too much. But, yes it helps me to write and write, but if that's called ruminating, then my T and DBT T don't think it's good for me.

I don't know exactly what you mean by transferred response but for me, it's the intimacy/intensity/good feelings that may get confused and seen as sexual. Holding T's hand has always felt good and not sexual. That's what I have a problem with. I disagree with my T but I guess I see her point that the whole session may have been about me wanting more than safe hand-holding but those needs weren't clear to me and still aren't.

That's very good, wotchermuggle. Thanks for putting into concise words for me. She knows it's mostly about maternal affection already, but said there is also a "part" of me that makes it/wants it to be sexual. As you can see, I decided I'm not sure. T knows me for almost 3 years so maybe she's right about the tone of the session, but not the hand holding per se.

Thank you, Anne. I wasn't directing it at those who do like me and do answer my threads. I was wrong. I felt an urgent need to be heard, to be hugged, to be responded to. I have to work on that and use those distress tolerance skills. I don't want to push people away. I felt too desperate. I appreciate your recognition of my progress.

Thank you, farmergirl. The second article was especially informative. I never thought that my ruminating was turning people off. I never even used that word until my DBT leader said it to me. I like to "figure things out" so I thought that's what I do. Sometimes my ruminations do produce insights. So, I don't know if practically speaking, I shouldn't post about my sessions. It's hard for me to not ruminate about THAT now! If I want support, and it's about my T-relationship, people get frustrated and upset. Then, where do I go for support? I'm not being facetious. I have trouble finding the middle ground where it's okay and not turning people off.

I'm in yoga to "quiet my mind" and I do find it helps. That's probably why T recommended it, as well as meditation, and being mindful, but a person can't do those all of the time.

My observation is that people will support you in your efforts toward change. (That's why most people are in therapy, no?) I think the frustration comes in when you demand attention and support for your current state, but that current state seems no different than where you were at last month or last year. It often seems to me like you have many excuses...You just started DBT, this is your first experience with SE, you may have been in therapy for X number of years, but most of them didn't count because you had trouble talking, you didn't want to email your T, but you couldn't help it, etc.

In all honesty, it feels incredibly manipulative. Sort of like saying "Well, I can't really change (because I don't really want to and always find an excuse not to), but you should all feel bad for me anyway. And if you don't, you're just mean."

Bottom line, we're all struggling to get it right, and I know as much as anyone that it's not easy. I don't think it does you any good for anyone to say "Oh, Rainbow...it's OK that you did X for the 100th time." Because really, it's not. When you know better, you're supposed to do better. When you ask for support for things you've done directly in opposition to your healing, why on earth would people tell you it's OK? I mean, we all slip up from time to time, but it feels like a little bit of a farce coming from you at this point.

I really do say this in the spirit of loving honesty, not harshness, though I know it may be difficult to hear.

My best to you.

((((((Rainbow))))))

I think someone pointed out to me on PC years ago that people tend to get one response for every 10 views, on average. I don't know if that's true still, but at the time, I checked and it was about right.

I do care about you and lots of people here, but I have really limited time on the computer. So I read a lot, but don't get to reply often. That doesn't change my caring, I promise!

Anyway, just wanted to send you some hugs