T embarrassed me!

I can see that you're hurting, Rainbow. Have just got to your thread now.

I don't know that I have anything useful to say... I agree with what farmergirl says here, but I think in my mind what needs to be adressed is why you continue to ruminate over T, not the fact that you do. I think the key is getting to the nature of these feelings, the nature of the 'shame', the obsession... the 'love' you feel for her.
I agree. I think we've come to the conclusion it's about not getting my needs met by my Mom, or being a preemie, or both. It's about attachment, wanting my T to be there for me in ways she can't, like my Mom was, or wasn't.
I appreciate what it is like to feel 'stuck', to be frustrated with something, confused and hurting. I admire your courage in continuing to post and reach out for support and help processing your feelings - especially when getting met with a certain air of 'here we go again'. Thing is Rainbow, I'd be willing to bet we're all ruminating about therapy or our therapists to some degree - some of us maybe more than we care to admit - otherwise, why would we be frequenting this forum, and why would we all continue to keep reading your threads? I don't think you're the only one searching for these kinds of answers. You're not the only one who's 'stuck' in some kind of 'pattern', either - though I'm not sure why you're one of those who gets called out on it while others are treated with kid gloves.
You're brave to post this! Thanks. I don't know why either but I have to accept the way it is for me, or choose to stop posting. Yes. Why do so many people have a need to discuss therapy? I find it interesting to do so--all aspects of therapy interest me, in addition to my own situation. It's fascinating, a world of its own. But yes, others ruminate too.
Anyway! I believe you DO want to change, that you WANT things to change - you just don't know how (yet!). But, again, a lot of the focus always seems to be on YOU changing YOUR behaviours - which, okay, yes, perhaps needs to be looked at - but I feel like the important thing is getting to the WHY. WHY you feel the way you do. WHY you ruminate. WHY you obsess. I'm not sure what if anything is being done to address that - in therapy or otherwise... am I wrong in saying that? I feel that, like with other things, if the core issue is addressed, the behaviours will likely take care of themselves. The behaviours are a symptom. Like SI, like comfort eating...
I changed Ts because my former one wouldn't let the child parts have their say. With this T, they have come out clear and strong that they want to be loved. That's the why, I think. I keep asking my T Why and she says, like the others said, it's 'unmet needs from the past. Your Mom and you didn't fit right. Etc." I've always wanted to know the why and it's been frustrating. Why I'm never satisfied, why I feel disappointed, why I can't get myself to quit therapy, why I obsess about T. Why I'm so messed up. It's a combination of things. Everyone's life is complicated. It's my brother. It's my genetic tendency towards shyness. It's the lack of expressing feelings in my family. It's whatever caused my selective mutism and BPD. I don't think I can get to the core anymore than that. I've tried. So WHAT do you think is my core issue? I'll have to ask T but she'll probably say 'attachment difficulties" due to my infancy and childhood, and my Mom's over attachment.
You say that you have had these strong feelings for each T you've had - were they all female? I wonder if you'd have the same issue with a male T. I wonder if the feelings come about because of the nature of therapy, or because it is an intimate relationship with a woman? I wonder what kind of transference this might be.
Yes, my Ts have all been female. My guess is that it would be MORE sexual feelings with a male.
I'm not surprised you feel that T embarassed you... I think any of us would feel embarassed to some extent if our Ts asked us about our feelings and reactions to them, to their touch, if it was 'crossing over' or 'arousing' or if the connection felt sexual in some way. But it really did seem to hit a nerve with you. I think what you need to explore, again, is why.

You have skirted around whether you think you're in denial - about your sexuality? Maybe this issue needs to be explored... but it may not even be about that. Perhaps it is something else about emotional intimacy. Perhaps it is a craving for something maternal.

I've been reading a book called 'In Session: The bond between women and their therapists' - I wonder if you've read it? There is something in there about the 'golden fantasy'... I think it would be a good read for you.

I think I said people don't like me, not that they "hate" me. I said "I hate PC". That was because I feel so bad when I don't get what I want. Yes, that's a pattern in my life. A huge one. I'm disappointed in therapy, I'm disappointed on here, and I'm disappointed by people in RL often. I didn't know how to get more responses, and I wanted them. The hurting part wanted them. I don't KNOW how to get attention in a positive way. If I ask "could I have more responses, please?" won't people think I'm selfish? I can't think of a productive way to word it. People will call me a narcissist again. I feel stuck!

My observation is that people will support you in your efforts toward change. Maybe not. Maybe they are in it to understand and learn about themselves, to learn to express feelings, to learn to sing in therapy, to learn to accept T's caring, and so on. Maybe it's to have someone who validates them and listens to them. Maybe it's because they need to learn how to calm down and meditate.(That's why most people are in therapy, no?) I think the frustration comes in when you demand attention and support for your current state, but that current state seems no different than where you were at last month or last year. It often seems to me like you have many excuses...You just started DBT, this is your first experience with SE, you may have been in therapy for X number of years, but most of them didn't count because you had trouble talking, you didn't want to email your T, but you couldn't help it, etc.
My current state IS different from last month or last year. I know that and don't have to prove it. Those above are valid reasons. I AM trying to change. I'm less anxious. That's important to me. I've started drawing again. That's major! It's insulting to me for you to tell me I haven't changed when you don't even KNOW me.
In all honesty, it feels incredibly manipulative. Sort of like saying "Well, I can't really change (because I don't really want to and always find an excuse not to), but you should all feel bad for me anyway. And if you don't, you're just mean."

Bottom line, we're all struggling to get it right, and I know as much as anyone that it's not easy. I don't think it does you any good for anyone to say "Oh, Rainbow...it's OK that you did X for the 100th time." Because really, it's not. When you know better, you're supposed to do better. When you ask for support for things you've done directly in opposition to your healing, why on earth would people tell you it's OK? I mean, we all slip up from time to time, but it feels like a little bit of a farce coming from you at this point.
I'm sorry but I am going to stand up for myself this time. You don't know what I'm doing in my life outside of therapy, only what I post. It's only your opinion, not the truth. Not MY truth.
I really do say this in the spirit of loving honesty, not harshness, though I know it may be difficult to hear.
It comes across as harsh but I will believe you that you don't mean it that way since you say so.
My best to you.

I am sure you are hurting and my heart goes out to u. Really.

I am going to respectfully disagree with this comment. I don't know if it makes any difference that I am 15, but some would argue that 15 is too old as well. I totally disagree. If you're hurting in life, or you are lonely, anything helps. I would have made this comment myself, until I was in a hard place. And those hugs were what literally kept me going. It's amazing what a virtual hug can do...

Rainbow.. Have you considered that your T is just wrong?? Maybe why you are so bothered for it. Just b/c you T got a sense, or saw a crossing over of emotions, doesn't mean she is right. You have said yourself that you didn't feel it, you weren't aroused, or thinking of sexual things.
She could be wrong. I'm confused about it.
As far as feeling ignored.. I think sometimes people don't respond b/c they simply do have any good advice. Or maybe they are triggered, or whatever. Are you too senstive to be on the board? Only you can answer that.. I think that there maybe some people who should avoid certain boards or topics b/c it will trigger them.

MUE can use that in her comedy act tonight, that somebody thought I could be the nice one

Rainbow, TOTALLY been there done that with the embarrassment in T. It helped me when T got embarrassed, but boy, talk about your major rupture. But that is why things are good between us, because there is no more possible embarrassment. Well, no, I take that back - it does wear off after a while; but no, there is nothing wrong with being totally embarrassed in T. That's actually what we go there for, I think. It means we're touching something meaningful.

Not to derail the thread but when I start a thread I much prefer insight, even if it's something I might not like to read or perhaps even disagree with. Hugs and thanks are easy to do, just a click of a button but giving a differing view of things, so we can maybe see things from a different perspective, is what a forum likes this is about. If we all just clicked the hugs and thanks button and didn't reply with posts this forum would be pointless. Just asking for thanks and hugs looks like the poster is attention seeking, and doesn't want to read any opinion through fear of it challenging their behaviour.

If somebody wants to give a hug they can. That's up to them. All I'm saying is that the hugs doesn't really help but what can help is people posting and giving a different perspective on things. Also if someone makes a post and is afraid of negative responses, an easy cop out is to ask for hugs and thanks for sympathy. It validates the OP, in their mind all these hugs and thanks means they're correct and all the posters who might comment will back off because they don't want to look nasty, or come across as controversial or bullying. So in otherwords the entire thread is derailed into a lovefest with no real insight. Just my opinion, the hugs button doesn't mean anything, most forums don't have hugs buttons and this forum survived and several years without it.

And this is what I am disagreeing with. Hugs do help for some. No one is *obliged* to give them. but they can hav a positive impact for some ppl.

And i agree with you that constructive insight can sometimes be more beneficial. I am not aruging with that, or about the fact that this forum is not built solely on the hug and thanks button. Its not. I am only saying that this user asked for hugs, obviously feels that they would be beneficial to them. So therefore, hugs can help

((( Rainbow )))

I can understand you feeling embarrassed and upset. But I agree that your T isn't the one that embarrassed you. One needs to take ownership of their own feelings, although it's true that someone's actions can help one feel a certain way.

It seems to me that you're upset because you felt so embarrassed that you weren't able to really assess what you were truly experiencing at the time. It's ok that you weren't able to. It ends up being something worth exploring on a couple of levels....

One, the idea that when struck with embarrassment, you disconnect.

Two, exploring whether or not her feedback fit for you or not (and it seems that it may not have fit)...and see where that leads.

(( HUGS ))

I never said I just wanted hugs or thanks. You misunderstood me. I didn't want to be ignored.

I am not a big believer in others deciding what someone else needs or needs to do or should do, or what is in someone else's best interest or for their own good.

Rainbow, just a first reaction to this post and the ones that preceded it. I say this as gently as possible in writing-- you need to confront and deal with your need to see the "attention" and other things that people give you as perpetually deficient. You do get responses, every time you post a thread, you are NOT ignored. Certainly you realize the lack of logic-- suggesting that emotions rule-- in posting AFTER people have responded to say you're being ignored?
Anne, please look back at page one. I had 2 responses, from hankster and farmergirl. Then I saw the "thanks" to fg (there weren't as many as now) with no hugs or reponses to me, and I got triggered. I should have been more patient but I was afraid my thread would disappear and I was feeling bad about the issue in my session. I still am, but am living with those feelings until Tuesday.
Pema Chodron has a new book (or at least new this year) and she references what I think is an amazing book written by a brain researcher who had a stroke (My Stroke of Insight). She studies the neurobiology of emotion, and she reported that the life of an emotion (in the brain itself, from trigger to where the brain lets it go) is 90 seconds. So if you get angry, that emotion does its neurological cycle and is over after 90 seconds. If it's lasting longer, then we're doing something to reactivate it, like pouring gasoline on a fire. I've found this concept to be really useful for me lately. If I notice what I'm feeling, I attend to it, maybe think about what it's about, try to drop the "storyline" (typical interpretation about what it means), I find it goes on its way and leaves me alone. I can usually wait out those 90 seconds.
90 seconds. I will try that! thank you.
But, going back to your T, that piece of how you felt that she left you thinking about sex and feeling shame, that seems like it doesn't belong to you. Or your T. That seems to belong to your brother. It just sits squarely on my CSA bones, if that makes any sense.

Not your shame, that is what was put upon you. And you feeling (not acting) sexual towards anyone is not anything that any of us can control. Shame is not something that we are born with, with respect to sexuality. Anyone who's had a kid knows that kids are NOT ashamed of their bodies, quite the opposite, shame about our bodies and feeling good is what is put upon us.

It's taken me a long time, but I think of my lust (my word for feeling sexual towards someone) as something that is really important to me. I like to count on my lust. I like to know that if I am still lusting, I am still pretty much alive. Even though I've been married a long time, sometimes my more subtle feelings for my H wax and wane, but I can always count on my lust. And before I was married, people came in and out of my life, but my lust was always with me. I guess I'm saying that lust, feeling sexual, is a healthy and very human response. Lust isn't the problem, feeling sexual towards someone, T or not, isn't the problem. It's what we think people do about with their lust (what we've been taught people do, or what we've watched people do) that's the problem, and that's what people often have something to be embarrassed about, not the feelings themselves.
Thank you for sharing all the above.
I think this incident with your T has brought up something very important for you to work on, and it seems to go back to your brother, and the aftereffects of that. I'm just really sorry that you had to experience that growing up, and that you have to heal from it now. But you are really on your way, don't give up.

I am not a big believer in others deciding what someone else needs or needs to do or should do, or what is in someone else's best interest or for their own good.

Therapy does hurt. Ts have to break through the denial and let you see the truth. That's always painful.

My thoughts on this, Rainbow, is that your therapist might have made the mistake of stating HER interpretation of the situation before first diving in and exploring what you felt. I'm not saying that you would have been able to recognize any erotic/sexualized feelings, especially because this area seems so sensitive and shameful to you, but it might have given her a better reading on what was going on for you "in the moment" if she had explored this a bit before stating what "she" felt was happening.

Perhaps your therapist misread the moment. Heck, that happens! Our therapist's are human and don't always get it right . . . hence the term, countertransferance. All therapists would like to believe that they have a firm and steady hand on their countertransference feelings, but reality is, those feelings are slippery little suckers and they misinterprete all the time. I hope that you and your therapist are able to work this through!

rain she seemed to be more concerned that you were trying to get your needs for human comfort (non-sexual or sexual I'm not sure) from her instead of your H ... maybe you need to focus on that more? and then the wanting hugs here seems to be an extension of that .... Yes, I want both kinds of comfort but she was talking about the sexual part at the time. I'm still triggered by the way she said it. It makes me cry right now.
nothing unusual about this ... or uncommon since so many of us are comfort starved ... but your t is the one person you are paying to help you get that need met through your h and through people other than her .... so calling you out on this was to try and help you ... isn't that part of why you are in therapy?

in response to a question Rain asked...

I can understand not wanting your thread hi jacked, but to reprimand people for NOT liking or hugging or commenting on your thread? Or getting upset they liked what someone else said? We all gather support through each other, various ways. Be it via others comments, OP threads etc. We in turn respond to those people with thanks or hugs or additional comments. People create threads to share their stories or look for advice or to get a nod of understanding from someone going through the same situation. I think a good thread evolves into a round table discussion that will help the OP as it may help others. But comments like the one above lead me to believe that your intention when creating a thread is to have everyone stop what they are doing and respond to and acknowledge only you and only what you have to say.... and ,I am not trying to be mean here, but can you not see where it makes you come off a little selfish and entitled? PC is a team sport. It only works if we all play together.

Okay, so maybe I am a bleeding-heart liberal here but I believe that behaviors occur for a reason and that the way to reducing the behaviors is to find the root cause. Getting stuck and reenacting the past over and over is not a place I would want to be (been there, am there sometimes), and rainbow, I truly feel for you. I am sad that you have been unable to yet find your way to peace.

My wish for you is that you could find validation and acceptance within yourself (also a wish for me). You deserve to be kind to yourself, you deserve to accept yourself. Best of luck on your journey.

Being new here and not being familiar with a history, I really can't comment on the appropriateness of the thread, nor its intentions.

But responding to the session event, as it's been described, does bring up some thoughts. The therapy situation can be emotionally charged by definition. What the emotions are and how they're shown can vary from time to time. But examining how all those emotions resonate within both client and T can be valuable.

Ts can be highly observant and empathic. They can, and do, often sense feelings in us that we are not consciously aware of. In part, I think it's because of both their knowledge of how the mind works, and having examined themselves to know where their own sensitivities are and are not. This can allow them to be intuitive in an emotionally clear way. That's one version of counter transference. It's a benefit to us.

The other kind of counter transference comes from a sensitivity that the T is unaware of or has not resolved in themselves, and this is not beneficial to us.

I don't know if your T's "reading" of this experience as sexual was right or wrong. But it's possible that she is feeling a general emotional arousal in you, out of scale with what is going on in the therapy, and focused upon her, which is perhaps distracting from therapy.

That heightened emotional "pull" toward therapy and your T may be dysfunctional in that it could be resulting from an unhealthy, distracting need in you. And that may be the same need that some here are reacting to, as well.

With this sort of situation, the felt gratification of therapy and interaction with T becomes the focus of your attention--rather than self-understanding and discovery being central.

It's a fine line between getting formerly unmet needs met, and traumas addressed so that we can move on, and remaining in a child state of endless gratification to avoid moving on. The latter is often experienced by others as an inappropriate neediness.

A good T will be alert to this sensed perception, and will adapt so as to not continue to encourage that need. And will slowly try to bring it to a client's attention. Sometimes the client quits therapy at that point, or finds another T who may begin the "honeymoon" phase all over again. Sometimes, the client interprets these behaviors as a rupture. Sometimes, the client remains stuck.

And sometimes, client and T are a good enough match of readiness and expertise to use the experience productively. I hope this will be true for you.

Thanks, Lola. I do see what you're saying but to me, it looked like my "critics" were at it again, and I was being attacked with no one supporting me. I use the "thanks" button too, but it often seems to me, especially in my threads, that there are 2 sides: my critics and my supporters. The critics thank each other and that feels like a knife in my heart. I'm not saying it's accurate, and maybe it IS selfish, but those are my feelings. It seems like a war to me and I don't have the strength for it. I am going to have to figure out how to think differently next time so I don't get triggered, and to accept the criticism. Accepting criticism is hard.

omg. all this hullaballou over some sexual feelings? Too bad I didn't find PC earlier, or that I wasn't less circumspect in starting threads. The point is, I think, many of us have had sexual feelings towards our T. We didn't die from them. Yes, your T, after 3 years, and all this hand-holding, was entirely within her rights to point it out to you. I think you're trying to distract yourself from your embarrassment about your feelings about it with all this rigamarole about everything else. You're trying to control it, or her, rather than accept it. What would happen if you just said yes, you were embarrassed, you had sexual feelings? Instead of arguing about WHEN you had sexual feelings? I for one don't believe she got it wrong. Anybody can feel the energy, the tension in the air.

Well, apparently I'm one of your "critics" and I was "at it again" as I was one of two people who had responded to your initial post before you went off on the whole forum. I was not attacking you at all. I WAS trying to help you see a different perspective frrom how you were "reading" things. If that is, in your eyes, "criticism" and you have either "critics or supporters" (rather black and white thinking don't you think?), then apparently nothing I said was in any way supportive. That's a shame as I was truly trying to be supportive.

I hope you will slow yourself down and truly try to absorb what your "critics" have to say rather than rejecting us outright as the enemy because I dare say you even see your DBT T and your own T as your "critics" if they so much as offer an idea that you feel shows you in any negative light. As I said in my initial post to you (ironically enough), this seems to go back to that general problem you have with shame and how you perceive any "mistake" or "correction" as a shaming event. Sounds like something to work on.

I said "some" people are triggered.