[CantExplain]

My wife has just made a very revealing remark:
"It's the therapist's job to hold you in the moment of discomfort."

Is she right?
It certainly seems to describe what my T is trying to do right now.

[critterlady]

I think that's part of the job, yes. Holding you in discomfort allows you to learn how to tolerate it. Life is full of discomfort and fighting against it can make it worse. Tolerating it gives it much less impact in your life.

[healed84]

Yes, I think sometimes it is the job of a T to do that.

[CantExplain]

Well, that does sound like she's hurting me deliberately.

[QuietCat]

See I actually read this to mean T is holding you in a supportive way while you feel discomfort. Not that T holds you in place (so to speak) in order to face discomfort. But I can see how it is true in both meanings.

[murray]

Originally Posted by QuietCat

See I actually read this to mean T is holding you in a supportive way while you feel discomfort. Not that T holds you in place (so to speak) in order to face discomfort. But I can see how it is true in both meanings.

I was also thinking that it could be taken more than one way.

[likelife]

Originally Posted by murray

I was also thinking that it could be taken more than one way.

Me too. My first thought when I read the question was that you meant hold in a supportive way.

My T said if I start to feel uncomfortable , then its working.

[WePow]

I know that when I am actually in discomfort, my T is there to hold me as I work through whatever it is.

[ECHOES]

Metaphorically, yes. This is the "containment" that sittingatwatersedge posted about.

When I'm a mess, my therapist contains me by helping me talk about out it. It brings the wildness in, it corrals it so we can see it better, and I can put words to it (not something I'm very good at when I'm falling apart).

[Nightlight]

My T has certainly pushed me rather firmly towards discomfort. I wouldn't say she's tried to keep me there, in discomfort, for longer than necessary. To work though it, it does need to be looked at and examined though, I've found.

That was my first interpretation of holding in discomfort, though I'm sure it could mean supportive holding as well. I think I would have read it as supportive holding if you'd said "hold you through the discomfort".

[precious things]

I've yet to experience any T holding or guiding me through discomfort. Who knows, maybe the 10th time will be the charm

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by QuietCat

See I actually read this to mean T is holding you in a supportive way while you feel discomfort. Not that T holds you in place (so to speak) in order to face discomfort. But I can see how it is true in both meanings.

I hope your interpretation is the correct one!

[learning1]

Holding you -in the sense of keeping you- in the discomfort sounds similar to something I had a problem with my last t about. I don't remember the exact details but I remember telling him that it seemed like he was TRYING to make me angry. I think he had actually said something the session before almost like that- he wanted to see me upset or something. When I said at the next session that it seemed like he was trying to make me angry, I remember his response was, you don't want that? I said no and later wondered why in the universe you would need to ASK someone if they wanted that. It doesn't seem to me like therapists should be intentionally trying to hurt clients, no matter what beliefs they may have about how it might help in the future. They don't and probably can't know well enough whether their theory will work to make it acceptable to knowingly do something hurtful to the client.

The thing I struggle about is, how would I think a therapist should deal with someone who is doing something we would all find unacceptable or repugnant, maybe cheating on their spouse or emotionally abusing another adult. (Nothing that rises to the level that the t should report it to anyone, just something unethical that the client is doing.) I suppose it would be hard for the therapist not to dislike the client a lot of the time. I remember an episode of that TV show about therapy where there is a nasty couple always acting horribly toward each other in therapy. I think the therapist is supposed to find something to like about the client, but they might be pretty disgusted with the client for the most part, right? What does it mean to be non-judgmental yet genuine with a client like this? Is it more okay for the therapist to say things that are hurtful to a client like this because the hurtful criticisms are genuine?
And if so, how can any of us know whether intentionally hurtful things a therapist does are legitimate, or whether the therapist has some insight that we don't have?

[ECHOES]

I think I misread this initially. I've been doing a lot of that lately!

Yes, I think when there is something to discover, a therapist will encourage a person to not move away from the moment.

An example I recall from early in my current therapy, is when I was explaining (confessing), rage I had in a particular situation. Sorry I can't provide details to make it more understandable. I was telling her to show her what an awful person I am. As I was about to shrink back from, pull back from, the telling, she encouraged me to keep going, to stay with it. I was able to do that and it gave me the opportunity to move from the shame and self-hate to the realization of what it was I wanted in that situation. I remember feeling I could trust her to keep going, to stay with it, and when I realized that what I had wanted then "I just wanted him to love me", she was right there with me, nodding with understanding and not judging me; we talked about how strong the desire was, and how lost I was regarding wanting to be loved. She really got it, and she helped me to get it too, by holding me in the moment. It was not done to make me suffer, it was done to help me come through the other side, to a better understanding of it.

It was a defining moment in my therapy. I realized I could trust her with anything.

[learning1]

I think your story is a good example of how something that hurts at first could help, Echoes. It sounds like you felt guilty at first and then by staying with it you were able to realize you had honorable motivations.

I wonder how it is different if, instead of trying to show you something isn't your fault, the t is trying to show you that something is your fault, such as if the t thinks you are being unfair to your partner. To answer my own question somewhat, I think it can help if the client decides the t is right and the client realizes they can be happier by treating their partner differently. But, if the t makes a negative judgement like that about the client and the t is wrong, then what? Somehow they aren't supposed to be judgmental but the non-judgmentalness seems pretty meaningless if they have decided that they think their client is [what anyone in real life would call] wrong.

[ECHOES]

learning1, yes that would be uncomfortable. But we are seeking to learn and seeking to uncover our trying to make ourselves look good (making the unconscious, conscious) so we can explore it through new perspective. At least, this is what I want my T to do for me.
It is human nature to do that, to make oneself 'look good'. But why fool ourselves?
* Please know I don't ever rule out that T can be incorrect

[learning1]

thanks for replying again Echoes. Yeah, I guess there's not much you can do except hope you realize it if the t is judging you wrongly early enough to get out quickly. Or be careful not to trust the wrong t or something. I don't know. I'm lucky another t had supported my side of an issue, which gave me a little more confidence to believe in myself instead of believing a t who judged me. I suppose it can be pretty damaging though, if you buy into their judgements too much, like back when they taught women to mindlessly obey their husbands. I wish I had realized my t was not on my side and quit a lot sooner. I guess ultimately that if you stay with a t, you have to be prepared to live with how you let them affect you though. I don't know how you can be open minded to the possibility that their judgments could be right without risking the possibility of wasting a lot of time and getting hurt.

I hope I haven't veered CE's topic too far off on a tangent. In my mind this is relevant to what he started with, but kind of complicated and I'm not sure if the connection would make sense to anyone else or not. CE does not seem to be very serious about it when he says he's considering quitting, so maybe it is not very relevant.

[stopdog]

I think it would mean a place where it is safe to feel the discomfort. Some therapists,as far as I have read, think them comforting or resolving the discomfort is a not a good plan (I think this varies from therapist to therapist or type of therapy) because the plan is enough discomfort will prompt the client to decide to change to resolve the discomfort. I would not stay with a therapist I thought was trying to punish me by intentionally inflicting discomfort on me. And I don't think the therapist has the ability to comfort me.

[unaluna]

I don't see how CE gets from the therapist holding him in discomfort to purposely hurting him. But if he is making that connection, it certainly makes these threads clearer. He is attributing intentionality to her inaction. When she said, "okay, do what you want", he didn't want to take responsibility for his action. He wanted to be told what to do, so he could rebel against it. I know the feeling well!! I can see my longtime t saying the same thing. She wasn't the best t for me. Current t is, I think. He is a much softer place to land.

[Raging Quiet]

When I hit a crisis point in 2011, I arrived to my T hysterical: she held me in my moment of need and physically rocked me on the floor (I feel embarrassed looking back!) but it was what I needed. There was no one else in my life that could have done that during that time.

Sorry I've taken your question literally

[ECHOES]

I think it would mean a place where it is safe to feel the discomfort.

Yes, this!! Perfectly stated in one brilliant sentences, stopdog - Thanks!

[learning1]

Originally Posted by ECHOES

Yes, this!! Perfectly stated in one brilliant sentences, stopdog - Thanks!

Could you explain some more?
(I was just exaggerating with the icons because I felt like checking out the icons.)

[feralkittymom]

Confronting uncomfortable emotions within a safe relationship--protected from the consequences of RL--so as to gain understanding and learn to mobilize new responses.

[learning1]

How do they make it feel safe?