[sittingatwatersedge]

• (OK T, now we find out if you really read PC or not.)

Once upon a time there was a client... we will call him/her

who had a T ... we will call him/her

Therapy had been going on for a while, with some good trust, some good interventions, some good progress, and then one sunny day, decided to throw out an Ugly Truth (in Tspeak to be sure, but you know, somewhat along the lines of, you know what your trouble is? it's this...)

Well, was totally blindsided and said No, I'm not like that, you don't understand.

and smiled and said, I do understand, and oh yes you are.

no.

Yes.

And suddenly there was in impasse.
Before any time at all had gone by, poor became more like and as the insistence went on, more like and then more like and sometimes even

How can these two find their way to a happy ending? It seems a strategy or two must be found to bring this subject up less directly, approach it from an angle, as it were, for the sake of poor

does anyone have any good ideas? For things that are hard to disclose, PC people have said tht talking about talking about it is one gradual way to disclose... how about in this case?

[BlessedRhiannon]

I think you could still go the route of talking about talking about it...kinda.

What I'm thinking is, can you tell T that her comment upset you and that you find it difficult to see how T drew that conclusion. And then, talk about why it upset you, why you disagree, why T thinks the way they do?

My T has, on occasion, come up with things where my initial response was a fairly vehement denial, but we talked about it and in some cases, I saw her point and in others, she saw mine and agreed that perhaps her initial comment wasn't entirely accurate.

I'm sorry... have you tried writing an email or letter?

I hope and makeup again....

[Anne2.0]

Need context. And fewer icons. And a better idea what the client wants to be able to talk about.

[sittingatwatersedge]

Originally Posted by Anne2.0

Need context. And fewer icons. And a better idea what the client wants to be able to talk about.

a picture is worth a thousand words. I almost put a smiley face here but ... you know...

SAWE are you a visual person?

[sittingatwatersedge]

(what is a visual person?) I can paint with words, but not with brushes. Even my collage was covered with words.

oops, there's an other darned smiley

[Lamplighter]

Awkward and painful situation that

You know if I were in your place and had a T say that to me I think it would put me in a very bad place and I'd be asking myself seriously just how attuned and understanding T really is.

It is possible as Rhi has said, that after some discussion T could accept being wrong. Or equally that you come around to seeing yourself as she does, if that's your approach.

I'm not a big fan of adopting someone else's negative view of me though, had enough of being the bad object and can do it perfectly adequately on my own without anyone else jumping in with criticisms and judgements to add to the extant pile already in my head. I don't think being upfront and 'honest' about another person's perceived failings and negative characteristics is much help on any level, there are better and more effective ways of leading someone to discover 'home truths' about themselves than rubbing their face in them.

So the obvious advice here is (natch!) to go in and talk about how it's made you feel and what you think and put your perspective forward and try and work out what motivated T to say it - I can't tell from your post whether you're particularly upset about this situation or whether you've lost any trust in T as a result, but I'm guessing you're not exactly ecstatic about any of it. Always worth talking about it, endlessly if necesssary, before making any decisions, for sure.

I hope you get through this impasse, and soon .

Torn

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by sittingatwatersedge

a picture is worth a thousand words.

Only if you enjoy speaking in cliche's.

But here's to bumping your post up for those who know what the heck you're talking about.

[rainbow8]

I'm sorry you're in this situation with your T. I don't think T's are supposed to tell clients what they aren't ready to hear, but my former T was blunt with me and I didn't appreciate it.

I think what you could do, if you're sure you aren't whatever T told you, is to give concrete examples, like "I acted this way and said this, in this situation, so you can see I'm not like what you told me".

Or, if you're not sure if what she said is true or not, you could say "it hurt me when you said what you did. Maybe it's true but I'm not ready to hear it". You can ask her what she's basing her opinion on.

I wish I had more suggestions. Is it possible there is SOME truth in what T told you? Maybe it's not all true, maybe most is wrong, but some is the truth. It's hard to see the truth about us. If it's not true, then show her that it isn't with examples, like I said above.

I hope you can work this out because I know you like your T!

I actually love the way you've expressed yourself here, SAWE. I hope your T does read this post - or that you could show him/her? (I think the emoticons will copy paste into an email? I hope so, for the full effect ) Would be a good place to start, methinks..

Sorry you feel you've reached an impasse, I relate! Tough times. Hope you get your happily ever after

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

"it hurt me when you said what you did. Maybe it's true but I'm not ready to hear it".

My confusion is that this seems to presume that what was said was hurtful, as in "You are a giant horse's patootie."

What if T said, "you are a highly intelligent and creative individual?" or something else that was positive about the self that is spoken about here.

It depends on the person, some T's like to stir the pot by saying something nice to the person who has a few issues with her self esteem. IME more fights are to be had for many people with trying to get them to accept the nice things about themselves rather than the opposite. Many people in therapy will fight to the death about owning their positive qualities, but want their T's to collude with them in their negative beliefs about themselves.

Hence my suggestion for context. Makes a huge difference in terms of how I'd respond and what I'd think about such a conversation between a client and a T. Otherwise I'm just shooting targets in the wind.

[murray]

Originally Posted by Anne2.0

My confusion is that this seems to presume that what was said was hurtful, as in "You are a giant horse's patootie."

What if T said, "you are a highly intelligent and creative individual?" or something else that was positive about the self that is spoken about here.

It depends on the person, some T's like to stir the pot by saying something nice to the person who has a few issues with her self esteem. IME more fights are to be had for many people with trying to get them to accept the nice things about themselves rather than the opposite. Many people in therapy will fight to the death about owning their positive qualities, but want their T's to collude with them in their negative beliefs about themselves.

Hence my suggestion for context. Makes a huge difference in terms of how I'd respond and what I'd think about such a conversation between a client and a T. Otherwise I'm just shooting targets in the wind.

Don't want to hijack but that is an interesting point. Had this sort of battle with my T today as a matter of fact. Really makes me feel wrong when he says nice things about me.

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by murray

Don't want to hijack but that is an interesting point. Had this sort of battle with my T today as a matter of fact. Really makes me feel wrong when he says nice things about me.

Why is that a hijack?

I am or maybe or and probably and right at this exact moment I feel for the perspective that is somehow less than a bunch of these

[stopdog]

SAWE - if it were me, I would see if I could let myself not agree with the therapist and be okay with the therapist not agreeing with me. I would simply quit discussing that area with the therapist and move on to something else, or find a new therapist. Therapists are not always right. If the therapist is unable or unwilling to listen to your point of view, then I would think setting it aside and going to another area would be the first option I would try.

Originally Posted by Anne2.0

I am or maybe or and probably and right at this exact moment I feel for the perspective that is somehow less than a bunch of these

I see what you did there..

I don't think writing is 'less clever'.. but you know, sometimes when there are problems in therapy - especially when about the therapist or something they did/said (in my experience) - the T can become a little defensive. Things can get a little tense... To me this seemed like a great way of raising the issue - gently, and with humour - and maybe raising a smile at the same time, whereas plain writing telling the same story could come over 'emotional' or 'attacking' if the T were so inclined to take it that way.

Or.. maybe it just appeals to the inner child in me. (She is mischievous tonight! )

[ECHOES]

sawe, love your post, but sorry for and being here--

One idea comes to mind, and that is one I learned at a team-building seminar. That is to fully accept and support the other person's POV for a set period of time. In therapy, I think it could work, and might give the issue more facets to explore together.

You can also agree to disagree. My T and I don't agree on everything, at least not at first. And some things she says just sound foreign to me. Would it be possible to move on and put this aside for now?

[Anne2.0]

Well, I'm going to say one more thing, and then shut up in this thread. But I have told my T about a zillion times, "You've gotten it wrong." And then maybe he crosses his arms and tells me to "school" him in what's right. Or he smiles his amused-at-me smile and moves on. Or he acknowledges I have a point. Or he says something to add context or complexity or a window into something I haven't considered. I may or may not acknowledge he has a point. Sometimes we explicitly agree that we will always disagree about it.

So from my own experience, I can't imagine what conversation should engender the scenario laid out above. I'm puzzled as to why it should be an impasse. I feel that there isn't enough information in the icons to get what's going on.

That's just my reaction. I am not criticizing the expressive choices and maybe I also didn't get that this is not even written to me or other posters here-- if it is just written to the T, then I don't know why I'm even here in the first place.

[feralkittymom]

Most clients in therapy have difficulties negotiating relationships. Seems like this is a good opportunity. And just maybe that was T's intention.

[sittingatwatersedge]

whoa, whoa, whoa now,
in defense of this particular T

If therapists don't sometimes, Clients may run the risk of never clueing in on the darker sides of their characters....

frankly I think it's part of their job to propose ideas that Clients have never arrived at, and if this provokes too high a reaction, well hmmm, maybe there's something there needs lookin at.

I also think it's very easy to tell the difference between that, and someone just voicing a negative opinion about a client. I don't for a moment think that that's what's going on.

this particular Client just needs a way to look at this a little at a time, so he/she can quit going

[sittingatwatersedge]

Originally Posted by Anne2.0

My confusion is that this seems to presume that what was said was hurtful, as in "You are a giant horse's patootie."
.

rainbow knows me well, Anne. I appreciated her post.

[sittingatwatersedge]

Originally Posted by Anne2.0

Why is that a hijack?

I am or maybe or and probably and right at this exact moment I feel for the perspective that is somehow less than a bunch of these

the smiles lighten things up a bit, and I'm all for that.
Thanks for your posts too Anne. My particular T is not given to being blunt, and certainly never deliberately hurtful - I owe her a lot for that - but some things make me see RED and she hit on one of them.

[sittingatwatersedge]

Originally Posted by stopdog

I would simply quit discussing that area with the therapist and move on to something else, or find a new therapist. .

i don't have that much self confidence SD; I will have to go to the bottom of the question to see if it's possible.

pardon the use of a smiley but

[stopdog]

Originally Posted by sittingatwatersedge

i don't have that much self confidence SD; I will have to go to the bottom of the question to see if it's possible.

pardon the use of a smiley but

I hope you find the answer for yourself soon.

Is it still a smiley if the icon looks sad?

[sittingatwatersedge]

Originally Posted by stopdog

I hope you find the answer for yourself soon.

Is it still a smiley if the icon looks sad?

no but I figured you found the rest of them equally distasteful.

Well, I guess i will just have to (ick) talk it out. that amused smile that someone mentioned - yes, that's the one I saw.
It just galls me.

If she convinces me, it's like I will have to relinquish the last of my dignity though.
man I dread the thought of these discussons.