Does your T say things to you in an indirect way?

Once I asked my T if there were things he thought about stuff I said that he didn't say to me. This was early in therapy. He told me this analogy that once he worked at a mental facility for criminals where he had a patient that had killed her parents. When he would see her for counseling she would talk about how much she missed her parents and that she wished they would come visit. He told me he could not tell her the truth because she wasn't ready to know the truth. This analogy would then be interpretted to mean... yes he may "see" things or "know" things that he wouldn't tell me because I wasn't ready to know the truth.

So fast forward to later in therapy... after having a rough time of it and emailing T (which he said I could do but should not expect emails in return) while feeling low and missing weeks of therapy due to vacations, my T said things like "he had to have boundaries with clients in order to stand working with them" and "if a person doesn't have anything to offer to me, then I wouldn't spend time with them"... now I had high anxiety in this session and I'm sure I'm just remembering bits and pieces and perhaps without the right context..

Ever since the comment about not telling someone something if they are not ready to hear it, I think I wondered if my T was trying to tell me things in his off handed comments or in indirect ways?

So what I'm asking is if anyone has experienced their T saying something that maybe could possibly be hurtful in an indirect way instead of just outright saying it? Like would your T bring up boundaries with clients in a general way and expect you to figure out he meant you were emailing too much? Did you ask T about it and did T confirm it was meant directly towards you? or does your T always approach everything in a straight forward manner?

I'm a pretty straight shooter so I've never been one to understand or pick up on meanings when people "beat around the bush".

[Nightlight]

I hate how I'm expected to work out some of the indirect things T says sometimes. She's definitely mentioned boundaries a few times lately, often wording it quite harshly. However, I imagine that if you personally were emailing too much, that would be an easy thing for a T to say directly. By talking about boundaries, I think they are talking about there own limits and limitations. We can ask, but they can't always come through for us because of their boundaries that they have in order to take care of themselves. It sounds like it's an explanation your T was giving you. If I didn't like you, then I wouldn't be trying to help you and I can't always reply because of the boundaries. It doesn't sound like a way to indirectly tell you to stop emailing. If that was being hinted at, then it wasn't a good way to say it.

My T is certainly straightforward about those sorts of things. If I think I hear something in what she says, then I try to be straightforward and tell her what I heard or ask what she meant.

[tinyrabbit]

In my view, off-handed comments are passive-aggressive and unfair, and if your T wants to talk about boundaries, he should just talk about them. I think you should talk to him as it sounds like either he's being really harsh or something has got lost in cognitive translation.

There have been things my T has said very carefully at first. He told me I lacked memories, and didn't know how I felt about things, because I wasn't used to giving myself that space. If he had mentioned dissociation, I would probably have freaked. I ended up gradually uncovering it myself. Ditto the fact that my mother is hugely emotionally neglectful. That must have been obvious to him from the off, but he couldn't just announce it to me.

I think you should talk to your T about how you are feeling. He needs to be straight about boundaries, and give you advice about how to manage the breaks.

As to boundaries, I do think it's important to recognise that your T isn't a spouse, or a friend. They can be there for you, but they're not meant to be at your disposal 24/7. If you're picking up on this stuff from your T, maybe stop and ask yourself if you are emailing too much and if the reason you think he's telling you that is because it's true. I find it helps to save drafts of things I want to send, and wait a few days to see if I still want to send them, and then I potentially just cut them down into one shorter email.

[tinyrabbit]

p.s. I really do sympathise. Bear in mind I sent my T an email earlier that ended with: "Sorry for being this awful person who sends you crazy emails."

[BlessedRhiannon]

My T uses lots of analogies, and I know that she doesn't always comment on things if she thinks I'm not ready to hear them. However, when she sees something that she thinks needs to be mentioned, she's always very straightforward about it. If T needs to make sure that I understand something, she will be very clear about stating exactly what she means to say and needs me to understand.

I think that if you are unsure about your T's motives, then you should bring it up. It's better to clarify and have a solid understanding than to just keep wondering.

[stopdog]

I never know what the woman is talking about. Not because I think she has double meaning, just because I don't think she is ever listening to me. It is like I am talking about something that is bothering me like "I became somewhat unsettled when my dad said ..." or "I am sad about the anniversary of my mom's death" and she will respond with "Pluto is no longer a planet" or "You have to adjust the liquid levels when cooking with whole grains" sort of response. Where as not untrue, I have no idea what it has to do with what I am talking about. When I ask her (directly "what the hell does that have to do with anything" or even "why did you just say that?"), she is never able or willing to say.

[unaluna]

I think what is needed more, is that if the client "senses" something going on, we need more practice in being direct and not being afraid to ask. We were trained by parents not to question or ask, but now we are equal adults. So no more guessing, no more assuming, no more mind reading.

I like how tinyrabbit puts it, it would be really passive aggressive for a t to just hint. I took the example of the imprisoned patient a little differently - as a REALLY blatant example of a client who "can't handle the truth", but not that YOU can't handle the truth. It was more the perfection of the example, rather than its content. I mean really, who wouldn't kill for an example like that - oops, ironic!

So it's also practice in having difficult conversations without wrecking the mood or your partner's ego, or practice in letting them save face while you gently let them know. I am not the most tactful person in the world but I have been trying not to hurt my cutie T's feelings.

[tinyrabbit]

I actually think that, if a T can't state their boundaries without being passive-aggressive, they're not respecting their own boundaries and can't expect anyone else to either!

[~EnlightenMe~]

"he had to have boundaries with clients in order to stand working with them" and "if a person doesn't have anything to offer to me, then I wouldn't spend time with them"...

T said this AFTER this vacation time? So, now that he set boundaries he can actually stand his clients? The second comment about him needing people to have something to offer him in order to spend with them doesn't seem to be about you. Is he usually like this, or is he just stressed out?

I hope you ask your T what he meant so you don't have to fret. If he complains about superfluous emails, it is up to him to set the limit.

Originally Posted by hankster

I think what is needed more, is that if the client "senses" something going on, we need more practice in being direct and not being afraid to ask. We were trained by parents not to question or ask, but now we are equal adults. So no more guessing, no more assuming, no more mind reading.

I like how tinyrabbit puts it, it would be really passive aggressive for a t to just hint. I took the example of the imprisoned patient a little differently - as a REALLY blatant example of a client who "can't handle the truth", but not that YOU can't handle the truth. It was more the perfection of the example, rather than its content. I mean really, who wouldn't kill for an example like that - oops, ironic!

So it's also practice in having difficult conversations without wrecking the mood or your partner's ego, or practice in letting them save face while you gently let them know. I am not the most tactful person in the world but I have been trying not to hurt my cutie T's feelings.

Hankster... you crack me up

I realize that I spent my whole childhood having to "interpret" the words, the moods to try to figure out what would/could happen next in my chaotic world I grew up in... to try to keep the peace... to fend off the next attack...

to be honest, the last thing I need is having a person who is supposed to be helping me putting me in a situation where they want me to be vulnerable yet asking me to "interpret"... on the flip side its hard to turn off the interpretting and ask the person if this is what they meant by what they say...

[tinyrabbit]

"the last thing I need is having a person who is supposed to be helping me putting me in a situation where they want me to be vulnerable yet asking me to "interpret"

this, exactly.

[unaluna]

Exactly. And I hate hate hate having to be tactful, but I kinda expect it of him, and he gets that hurt puppydog look on his face - I hate having to handle these delicate situations. But it would be cool to be that diplomatic.

[stopdog]

I don't worry about being tactful in dealing with a therapist. They can take care of themselves. And the one I see can barely understand 5 monosyllabic word sentences in the active voice. I have no reasonable belief she would ever understand me if I tried to be tactful.

[sunrise]

My T is quite straightforward, thankfully. When I don't understand something he said, I don't think he's trying to be oblique, but just maybe stated it unclearly. Alternatively, my brain was mush that day, and the comprehension problem is on my end. If I don't get something he says, I just ask him what he means, and he clarifies. I've gotten really comfortable doing that with him. It's so much easier than just assuming I get what he is saying when I'm not sure, or trying to read his mind.

[tinyrabbit]

If my therapist got a hurt puppydog look on his face, that would not help. He already has to endure weeks of apologies and panic every time I get angry with him.

[Anne2.0]

I feel like my current T is more oblique than the others that I have worked with, in the sense that I say to him more often, "I don't know what you mean" if I am confused by what he says. Sometimes I say, you are confusing me. He always seems to get why I am confused, and he then explains what he means so I do understand him. I think of this as a very basic T skill.

Pretty early on, my T said something about it seemed like I was exercising in order to "kill" my emotions. My response was along the lines, yeah, of course I am. Duh. It was almost a week later when I realized he had said that as if it were a bad thing, and we had to go back and talk about it the next week. I told him that statement was way to subtle for me and if he thought my behave was unhealthy, he was going to have to be a lot more point blank about it. He has, since then, been very direct when he thinks I am being unhealthy.

My T tends to over-explain things and goes on and on and on meanwhile I've been to Jupiter and back and usually say "Sorry I checked out would you be able to summarise that" just to remind him that I although I don't have ADD or anything too many words overwhelm me.
Also he has wanted to see some of my art but has never outrightly said so just kind of hinted at it. I'm waiting for him to ask to see it, just so he practises what he preaches!

[rainboots87]

My T's have always been very direct. Compassionate, yet direct. Sometimes I've thought what they've said has been a bit harsh, but it's always been to help me and I eventually came to appreciate it. Sometimes I need the tough love. There has to be a level of trust, though, for it not push me too far.

i'd had previous t's with no attachment, so when i went to current t he was pulling the attachment crud on me, so in the beginning i really thought he was stupid. the family was going because of behaviour my kids were having. after a about a month, he said to me, "Your kids are fine, but you need to come back... "

hence started that journey into therapy....
and i told him later, if i knew what i was getting myself into i would have never started all this in the first place.

[Perna]

Originally Posted by Readytostop

So fast forward to later in therapy... after having a rough time of it and emailing T (which he said I could do but should not expect emails in return) while feeling low and missing weeks of therapy due to vacations, my T said things like "he had to have boundaries with clients in order to stand working with them" and "if a person doesn't have anything to offer to me, then I wouldn't spend time with them"...

I do not see anything indirect there. It is a fact that one has to have boundaries, everyone does, to live/love/work with someone. If someone, you know, uses "you know" all the time, you know? eventually you say, "Hey look, I'm having trouble with the "you knows", can you work to not say it as much?" but, that does not happen instantly so we have to come up with other ways to keep ourselves sane, like perhaps not asking that person as many questions or (if we're a teacher) not calling on them in class to explain something as often, etc. Likewise, when we are emailing our T's a lot, that may be fine but they may not respond a great deal; the emailing might make us feel better but having one's email box constantly filled by someone else is not always so great on the other person's side. The T allows it though because we need it.

The second comment is literal; T enjoys working with you, is learning from working with you, or he wouldn't at all. There's no shortcut there or veiled message. If he did not think working with you were worth while for himself, he would not work with you at all, period. But while you are emailing a whole lot, instead of talking to him in session and working on your stuff as it arises in session with him, he sets a boundary for himself. It's like parents putting up with a 2 year old's tantrums, or teenagers as they go through a particular growing up phase?

Think of it like the airplane oxygen instructions; put the oxygen on your own face before helping children and other passengers; if you can't breathe, you can't help someone else, keep yourself centered/good first. You need to email and your T knows, encourages, respects that but your T does not need your emails. It's sort of like that.

Originally Posted by Perna

I do not see anything indirect there. It is a fact that one has to have boundaries, everyone does, to live/love/work with someone. If someone, you know, uses "you know" all the time, you know? eventually you say, "Hey look, I'm having trouble with the "you knows", can you work to not say it as much?" but, that does not happen instantly so we have to come up with other ways to keep ourselves sane, like perhaps not asking that person as many questions or (if we're a teacher) not calling on them in class to explain something as often, etc. Likewise, when we are emailing our T's a lot, that may be fine but they may not respond a great deal; the emailing might make us feel better but having one's email box constantly filled by someone else is not always so great on the other person's side. The T allows it though because we need it.

The second comment is literal; T enjoys working with you, is learning from working with you, or he wouldn't at all. There's no shortcut there or veiled message. If he did not think working with you were worth while for himself, he would not work with you at all, period. But while you are emailing a whole lot, instead of talking to him in session and working on your stuff as it arises in session with him, he sets a boundary for himself. It's like parents putting up with a 2 year old's tantrums, or teenagers as they go through a particular growing up phase?

Think of it like the airplane oxygen instructions; put the oxygen on your own face before helping children and other passengers; if you can't breathe, you can't help someone else, keep yourself centered/good first. You need to email and your T knows, encourages, respects that but your T does not need your emails. It's sort of like that.

Perna, I see it as indirect. If he had said, RTS I realize you have been having a hard time but I need to have boundaries in order to preserve my own mental health. Please do not email anylonger. That would be direct..

maybe I'm too dense to pick up on these things..

Anytime my T is telling me something and says "with clients" or "some clients" I should make the leap that he is talking about me? seriously... i'm the only one in the room so why can't he just say it like he's actually talking to me since he is...

Its hard for me to understand...