Do you think we shouldn't be so "informed"?

I can see a parallel. I also work in law and I know a lot of people who come in with some internet research knowledge on some law they've broken and why they're undeserving of being in court. Most of the time they're way off mark in their research. They're looking at state law instead of federal, or some old regulations that have since been updated. Very annoying.

[quote=stopdog;2951948] [ bigly different ) I do not mean to deny anyone else's experience]]

yeh right, OK whatever. SAWE

[quote=stopdog;2951948] the observations the therapist has told me about are either ones I have already stated/admitted or so incomprehensible quote]

Sdog.... have you ever spent any time trying on the "observations" the T has told you about, which may not coincide with what you have already stated/admitted?

Might be an interesting exercise, just saying.

Please know that I am wishing you the best in your journey.
SAWE

Well, but law is based on precedent and argument, not based on human interpersonal interactions, symptoms, medications, and techniques. I agree that the client/patient is the one responsible for the real work so the better informed they are, the more they have to work with. If some of that information is outdated or incorrectly interpreted, it actually may have little impact on the actual therapy session, unlike with law. I could imagine (and have had something like this happen in my training) that someone is convinced of something that borders on delusional. The best way to deal with delusions is not to try to prove them wrong or argue with them or provide reality testing. The best way is to understand the subjective reality of what the delusion is doing in the person's mind and life. Appreciating that reality ends up usually dissolving the delusion or reducing it to something manageable and not as significant as what is underlying it. It is up to the client however to let go of the delusion, not the therapist. Therapy is a gentle process; there aren't hard and fast rules like other disciplines and practices.

I don't understand them most of the time. It is not that I would be unwilling to consider them if I knew what the hell she was talking about or how it related in any way to what I was talking about. The very few times what she has said that I could figure out what was meant, I did consider. It is not always whether she is right or even wrong. It is much more of a so what? Even if that is true or correct or whatever, so what? If I had not read a lot of books by them to describe their complete lack of doing anything except blaming the client for not embracing their "interventions", I would think I was seeing a completely defective one. For example, reading stuff has helped me recognize that sometimes what she is possibly trying to do is be empathic. The fact I find empathy awful notwithstanding.

Right now we are trying her not talking. I find it goes better for me when the woman does not talk.

Thanks for starting this thread Quietcat. I have been wondering the very same thing but I have experienced therapy before knowing anything about it and it had no impact at all on me. I thought it was BS but now I know how it is supposed to happen it is helpful to understand these feelings and they are normal. I think if you like to read up on it, it is your right to do so not your ts

I think that sometimes being informed makes me wonder what my T is doing, instead of taking things at face value and responding to that, but I think that can be a part of the process just like anything else. I really don't read much anymore about the therapy process. It is a relief to just go to therapy and trust that my T knows what to do to help me. Good question.

For the record, I've done a lot of research into therapy, mental illness, and schools of thought.

The only downside I can think of is identifying too much with what one is reading. What I mean is, finding things that seem to (or do) describe your feelings and behavior, but then becoming convinced that you must suffer from what is being written about, and then that you must be behaving (or must behave) in the ways talked about in the book or article. I suppose it could become a kind of self-fulfilling prophesy.

On the one hand I think it can lead to erroneous self-diagnosis and on the other it might lead to not letting in new information about yourself that contradicts what you have read and identify with.

I don't know how common this is, so don't know if this helps to answer your question.

Maybe a way to avoid this -and it not interfere with therapy- would be trying to have an open mind while researching. I try to, although I don't think I'm always successful.

I guess I don't see the process of being in therapy as limited to sessions only since there is so little time involved and it is so limited that way. I take it on as a huge part of my life so want to extend it to reach deeply into every aspect of my life. Since it mostly depends on me and my own work and realizations, I feel that whatever I can do to further the process is worthwhile and responsible. I don't go to sessions thinking that is it and only what happens there is all I'm doing.

Well, what we know now with respect to psychology and mental illness is a lot better than what they thought and knew 500-1000 yrs ago. 500 yrs ago you would be held in solitary confinement with no light and shackled to a wall and left to decay or burned at the stake if you suffered from mental illness.

The Mental Hospital I was in 20 yrs ago in Phila PA is over 150 yrs old and some patient rooms were converted to Dr. offices and the shackles still left on the walls.

You're not hurting yourself doing your own research.

Ultramar,
I think that sometimes what we identify with is telling and can be useful in therapy as long as the therapist believes that the client knows himself/herself best. That being said, I agree that it helps to always have an open mind while also trusting in yourself and in the wise part of you that knows how to heal. Sometimes when I am anxious, I also identify with some not so good diagnoses that don't fit at all, but I generally know this deep down and don't run with it. You make some intriguing points, thanks!

Actually mental illness was tolerated better than you might think, especially during the middle ages. Yes, you could be branded as a heretic then, but then there was lots of respect for those who had visions of religious kinds and veneration for them. Also towns regularly tolerated and even celebrated the "fool." It wasn't until the 19th century that asylums and medicalization started to take place. Even then people were considered in need of rest and given lots of room and space and accommodations. Just read about Vincent van Gogh. He actually didn't even have a mental illness. It's now been shown that he suffered from a neurological problem called temporal lobe epilepsy. It is a completely recent problem that the mentally ill have been treated so badly. I don't believe that this is progress. We have more rules now to prevent such abuses, but they still do occur. Restraints and lack of medical care and rights are routinely part of hospitalization. So it hasn't really ended, just been hidden from view. All the more reason for what they now call the "consumer movement" to step in and encourage those seeking help to take an active role in their treatment and recovery.

ive gotten this many many many times. where therapists AND psychiatrists tell me to either quit reading about it or read very little. therapists said very little. pdocs said QUIT. lol. so i never spoke to any future professionals about my doing that out of fear. also cause i had a couple therapists say "no no you do not have XYZ - you need to stop (or slow down theyd say) the researching". i dont research anymore...well very little. i feel like its been ingrained in me to not do it anymore. but now im very confused about so much. im almost scared to look anything up for fear they are watching me. actually i dont even see a therapist and im afriad all my future therapists are watching me.

I haven't read all the responses...

I think there is no shame in being informed. But, as with anything, it can be taken to the dark side. If it is obsessive/compulsive then it may be a problem. If it's triggering and spins you out, it may be a problem. If it's impacting your ability to function in therapy, it may be a problem. Otherwise, read on.

[QUOTE=sittingatwatersedge;2952036]I have no idea what you mean by this. It seems derisive and mocking when all I have tried to do is explain how I experience therapy as well as how I am not expecting everyone to experience it my way.

I am sincere when I say my experience is mine and others may well have different experiences with therapists. I am not telling anyone else their experience is incorrect. I do not deny others may experience therapists/therapy differently than I do and that they may well benefit from it in ways I do not understand.
I am not alone in how I experience them either. For me, being informed, knowing what is going on with therapist, finding out how they are trained, what they are trained to do, understanding it or at least trying to, is important to me. I will keep doing it through reading and seeing other professionals and possibly taking more classes. I don't need the therapist's permission or approval to do so.

I generally agree with you, and I'd go a step further I think. If it's obsessive/compulsive, or ineffective, then perhaps the problem isn't the reading, but obssessive/compulsiveness, or spending energy on things that are diverting the cl, or causing them to spin out.

As an academic, I'm all for being informed. Can't know too much is my middle name!

That said, however, I think each person needs to be as honest as possible as to the intent prompting seeking out info. If it's to know more, done with an open mind, then there should be no problem bringing it into the therapy--grist for the mill.

But if someone feels the need to hide such researching from the T, then I think this points to a problem either with a T attitude, or with the client's confidence in a T. Both would be counterproductive.

There is also a question of balance: if a client tends toward obsessive compulsive behavior, then researching will be abused. If a client uses the researching to hurt him/herself, that's a problem. If researching is prompted by a lack of trust, then I think it would take away from the therapy experience, and the lack of trust would be better confronted within the therapy.

Since I believe therapy rests within relationship, if the researching deepens the relationship, then it's helpful; if it creates or reflects distance in the relationship, it's not helpful.

Imo you absolutely nailed it. Thank you. This makes so much sense.

I was reading the boards and I noticed a lot of people having (or have had) a lot of difficulty in therapy, so I wanted to share this. I told my xT about a book I had read, and at first, my xT read it and I thought it helped him understand me better. I now realize that he never really accepted what I know to be true about myself. We talked about it, for awhile it seemed like he did, but in the end, he outright rejected my idea and I think that he never did accept me for who I am (which is what the point of the book was that I showed him - one with which I identified and still do).

I wish I had left earlier because I feel like a lot of my therapy was spent with me trying to convince him of who I was, but I stayed. I now have a therapist who believes me, believes in me, validates my emotions, and he sees me and the part of me that holds my emotions not as something pathological to be fixed, not as something at which to direct anger, but as something understandable and worthy of respect.

I love to read about psychology and still do sometimes, but it is a relief to not have to do this to feel validated, to feel like I am not alone, to feel like I am worthy of respect and not anger. I know my xT tried to help, but his training was in CBT which didn't include my main issue. I did learn from him, but his lack of knowledge about my core issue was detrimental and I often felt invalidated and thought it was all me.

My point here is if you are looking around for validation, etc., instead of finding it in therapy, it might be time to look for a different therapist. I didn't leave because I was attached and couldn't fathom that I could find anyone who could understand because I didn't believe in myself. My wish for people here who are going through this problem in therapy is to believe in yourself, believe in what you are feeling, believe in the wise part of you, listen to what it is telling you, and talk to your therapist about your concerns. If your T doesn't believe that you know what is best for you, then it is time to consider that this T may not be the one to help you.

I agree. I have left two therapists who were also psychiatrists and analysts, both very wise and informed. However, I just knew that I wasn't being "seen" but rather they had an image of me, that was flattering, but not really helpful for the issues I needed to address. See I was an intellectual and writer. That was what caught their attention and they focussed on having discussions about that kind of thing because they were academic wannabes in a way. I found someone else, a colleague of theirs and close friend, who didn't really care about my intelligence or gifts. He cared about my insides, which he saw as hurt and fragile. He was right. And I was able to make the shift easily and make more of the time I have seen him than ever. It is really important to find the right match. It's much too personal and sometimes difficult a process to just stick with anyone if you don't feel it is going well. Even if it is hard to break it off, you will be glad that you did in the longer run.

Playing tennis is so different from knowing the rules. It helps to know the rules, no doubt about that. But playing is a horse of a different color. And therapy is like learning to play all over again, after you were very poorly taught by your parents or whatever.

But people have different learning styles. Some like hands on, some like reading, some like hearing etc. Some people can play tennis or ride a bike better after reading about it first or watching a video of someone else doing it and so forth. There is not just one way to do therapy.

For me, therapy is more the relationship and working with the T during my therapy time than anything going on outside. In the beginning, when one isn't quite sure how it all works or what's going on, etc., it can feel comforting to think one has an idea of what is going on but books are not real life. My T use to give me a hard time because I did a lot of reading (instead of living :-) especially novels, and she'd point out that in books nobody ever goes to the bathroom Life is lived in relation to ourselves and other people, not "things".

If one is happier reading and is not secretly longing to do something else, then how is it not living for them? People choose different ways of living. For some, reading is fine. For others, reading may not be enough. For some, reading for a long time then less reading. For others, no reading at all.
As long as I am living the way I want, it is not up to the therapist to decide (or anyone else) that it does not count as living.

Being too aware of the therapy process didn't help me in the past. It became a defence mechanism, a way I could control the therapy by knowing what was going on, labelling the terms, intellectualising it all and being able to analyse what T was doing rather than actually doing the emotional work I needed to do. But it was where I was at back then.

Also, the mind is very powerful and complex. Reading too much about any condition, illness or affliction could potentially reinforce the problems you already have. This isn't psycho mumble jumbo, it does happen. The mind identifies with what it reads and further reinforces the reality, adding more layers on top of what is already there. There is a difficult balance between finding support and not being drawn into further identifications. For example, being on a forum for depressed people can be a support if you feel depressed, but it can also reinforce it because you're constantly reading and identifying with others who feel that way and making links with symptoms.

On that note I can see why a t might feel it's unhelpful for a client to read about the t process. I think there;s a lot of power in not identifying with it and just allowing the process to unfold in its own way, without extra interference from the mind.