Seeing your Therapist as more of a Peer than a Therapist

and with personal information all over the Internet, if a Client really wanted to stalk their Therapist they could do it without getting a single bit of personal information from them if they wanted to.

Exactly it all depends on the Therapist as it should be.

Unfortunately it doesn't matter what we'd like. The t gets to defined her boundaries and we don't have any say in it. I've struggled with that too.

Not quite sure about that, because like I said in an earlier post that if I saw her in Public and she tried to maintain boundaries that I didn't agree with than I could get very mad at her and just tell her at the next session that I no longer want her as my Therapist because of how she treated me when we saw each other in a Public (or even Semi-Public or Private) setting.

And that would put her completely subject to your personal whims, and not allow her the agency of her own actions without jeopardizing your therapeutic relationship and/or her (perceived or real) privacy or safety. That's one of the reasons why the boundaries often extend beyond the office walls. People don't tend to get obsessed with their attorneys or mechanics, but I'd offer that this forum itself is fair evidence that therapists face a different set of circumstances.

And I would truly enjoy debating this all night, as I like that sort of thing--but I find those kinds of threads annoying, and all sides seem to be pretty firmly entrenched. So I'll step back and allow the discussion to flourish without me.

My experience has been different from this. I know plenty of attorneys and judges who have been stalked. More than the therapists I know.

Very true. That is the one option that we always have. Your intense resistance to accepting is probably worth exploring.

I will say this (even if you won't reply) it is a general consensus (and my Therapist even told me this would be the case with me) that if you do see your Therapist out in Public that they will not say anything unless you initiate conversation, well in the same way I think that wanting to have an extended conversation out in Public is sort of an extension of the "You lead and I'll follow" policy.

Another thing is the therapist's right not to have to work outside he office hours. Talking to a client is work for a therapist. She cannot let her guard down and chit chat too much because she is your therapist and you are her client. Peer or not peer, T has certain responsibilities to you that you do not have to her. What she says to you outside of your session could impact your therapy and it's her responsibility to guard against that. Your preferences don't dictate her interactions with you outside of session. She can take them into account but ultimately it's up to her.

Also, oh my goodness, RT your fifty shades of private are confusing to me, here, in writing! I can't imagine your poor T trying to work out the privacy settings on any given out-of-office interaction.

That said, I have asked my t to take my preferences into account. I've asked my T to say a quick hi when we see each other outside of therapy--the barely perceptible nod and half smile was making me feel weird!

Ok, one more, because impulse control is one of my issues...

I completely agree that most T's will refrain from initiating conversation with a client, in order to protect that client's privacy. And also that many T's will engage in polite, surface chitchat when approached. But those with solid boundaries would not tend to expand those conversations into more personal revelations, including information that in other circumstances would be thought acceptable for casual conversation. It tends to encourage a familiarity that might be disruptive to therapy.

And stopdog, I highly value your input and intellect on this site, and have appreciated your dry humor and interesting take on things. But we come from such different perspectives on therapy and therapists in general, that we're bound to end up on the opposite sides of many debates. I hope that in this case we can agree to disagree.

Inside of the office she is my Therapist and I am her Client outside of the office I am not so sure about that (well I still think that she is but I think she might be other things as well).

BTW it is interesting that you called me RT since that is my username in another board (it is actually a sports broadcasting board and has nothing to do with Therapy) . Also 50 Shades isn't too far off because there are sub-settings within the main settings .

I do appreciate everyones points of view and I do have a hard time understanding them all but I am trying to.

Usually the more the client pushes the boundaries the more they are necessary and the more firm he t will be.

But at the same time that increases the likely-hood of a Client wanting to end Therapy all together (I know it would with me)

True. I know my therapist would not bend her boundaries which she has established for well thought out reasons because I threatened to quit. I am sure just the threat would make her feel like she needs the boundaries all the more. The way your therapist responded sounds to me like she is of this same mind but they are all individual so maybe she is different than mine.

Honestly she didn't give me a real direct answer, she said that she would see the line as "more" solid but maybe not completely solid (in other words maybe some flexibility there), and she also didn't mention exactly what the boundaries where (so I really don't know how much she would be willing to socialize outside of Therapy at all).

Perhaps it would help you to see this (bolded) for the control issue it appears to be. You're saying that she has no right to establish her own boundaries--why?

Therapy is a relationship and each person has boundaries. But the T has professional concerns that go beyond her personal concerns. She has responsibility for maintaining the therapy frame for your psychological benefit. While you don't seem to understand its purpose, and you should question and discuss it with her, she is, nonetheless, obligated to protect it, whether you like the result or not. Of course, you can always choose to leave the therapy, but that's a choice that ultimately only hurts yourself. Any good T is going to protect the frame, and while they may engage in different behaviors, none will be willing to allow the client to unilaterally enact boundaries for the relationship that threaten the frame.

So the issue again comes back to why assuming control of the relationship boundaries is so crucial to you? Why the need to impose a personal connection between you? What do these issues represent for you? Pursuing that discussion with your T would be productive.

Well I guess it comes down to the fact that I want to see her in Public as just another regular person (although certainly not a friend), at concerts and other social events I often talk to total strangers since I know that they share a common interest with me just by being at the event (which is why I see it as a Semi-Public setting instead of a full Public setting like a bank or the supermarket) so why can't I talk to her there (obviously I know her much more than a total stranger).

You could possibly talk to her there. I have students who come up to me in the grocery or at the symphony - but they are still students of mine. I might make general small talk for a couple of minutes with them, but they are not going to be invited into my private life and I am not going to talk to them about anything for long in an outside setting. The fact that we are not physically at the university does not change our relationship to each other.

Another this is that my Therapist could even influence my actions out in Public to some degree. For instance I recently went to a concert that had several people getting out of their seats and dancing to the music along the aisles, and while I had no intention of doing that (and didn't) if I happened to see my Therapist out there on the floor dancing I might have gotten out of my seat and went out there to dance alongside her (obviously with lots of other people around us), and in that case all of the communication would be physical and not verbal (except maybe if we chatted a bit after the concert), since she wasn't there it was not an issue but it does make you think.

I am also really sorry if I am over-thinking this but it is what I do sometimes.

That is interesting because I know some Colleges and Universities where the line between student and professor is almost non-existent especially when it is a Grad Student teaching the class. For one class I had a TA (Teaching Assistant) who when I saw on campus (although not off campus in the general public) and I would sometimes give her a hug before talking to her and she had no problem with it, granted she was a TA and not an Instructor.

I tend to be quite formal in my interactions with students. Some others (often those a good deal younger than I) tend to be less formal. It would not change my approach if a student said I had to be less formal because Dr. X was less formal. I would say to take classes from Dr. X then and not mine. I will say I have heard of more difficulties arising out of less formal interaction than more formal interaction.
But I tend to be more formal with the therapist too. I am greatly reassured by the idea that she will not bother me in real life.

Indeed. I think when people in positions of power (like a T or a prof) forget or don't care about the power differential in the relationship all kinds of problematic things tend to arise. And then both people stand to lose a lot. The client or student is vulnerable to considerable psychological damage and the T or prof can get fired, disciplined or--in the case of a T--lose their license.

I question what is going on for a T who needs so badly to be friends or to be admired and seen as cool that they are willing to violate professional boundaries in that way. Why do they need the adoration and the heady rush that comes from being adored and why are they using their clients to get it?

I sometimes saw Madame T as something like a peer. Less so with Mr T.

Even though I occasionally see my T socially, we share the same interests, we come from the same background professionally, we are around the same age, my T has made it painfully clear we are NOT peers. Occasionally I forget and talk collegially with him I am soon put straight. But this has been more so after i revealed my sexual feelings for him.

While this may appear to you to be true, I can assure you it is not. Profs and TAs are under a lot of restrictions regarding relationships and behavior with students. I know this both from having been a TA and from being involved in training TAs. Perhaps your hugging your TA, since you initiated the action, was not as much no problem for her as you believe.

I don't think connection as you define it is always there as you believe it to be. People could be at a concert for a lot of different reasons not shared by you. People who go to the same University don't necessarily feel a great bond with other alums. Your connection to your T is therapy-based, and that doesn't change with the environment or the circumstances or because you give importance to certain bonds that she doesn't acknowledge. I really hope you talk these issues through with her.