"I am tired of YOU YOU YOU"

Leah I understand, using my metaphor, its hard to give someone that wheel while you just standby and let them fly you in, because you needed help and needed to let go of some control

I was trying so hard to show her how to pilot, and then, I got very very afraid, and basically yelled at her that she had to, I needed her to, but I think we crashed. She doesn't want me to show her how, she wants to do it her way, and her way hurts, but it's my fault it hurts, because I'm messed up and sensitive.

leah, why are you taking all the blame here? if you are in this flight together, using my metaphor ok, then its a partnership the plane does not go anywhere without the pilot or co pilot, (therapist/client) its a relationship. It wont take off, until you straighten this out, its like a preflight checklist, sorry but this is my metaphor the way i see therapy and my t relationship. You cannot take all the blame or non at all, You say you are a handful with your t. t are experienced in this field to be able to deal with this or know how to take a breather before they say anything hurtful to the client.

Yeah, I don't mean to take all the blame, I just know she didn't say it randomly, that we were definitely having a rocky flight and I was not steering very well myself.

I'm not feeling super clear, ha. Just.... upset. When I try to analyze it all, I feel I'm not doing a great job.

I'm sorry If my T said that to me, I would be devastated. Not sure i could get past it, really. It's not your fault at all - no matter what you said in the context. SHE is the professional, not you. I don't know how one would trust a T who said that....I mean, what's stopping her from continuing to lose it like that in the future? While Ts ARE human, they have a responsibility to have good boundaries and keep the client's needs at the forefront. To me, that statement is going way over the line - but maybe that's just me. Has she said anything like this to you before?

Thanks, Freewilled. We've had about.... roughly 125 long sessions at this point, if not more, mostly double sessions. She has said maybe one other thing like this, that she wouldn't wear kid gloves with me, which I felt was harsh, but less harsh than this.

She has said a couple other things that really bothered me, in different contexts.

In general (I am feeling so muddled right now), she has apologized and been willing to work through them with me and listen to how I felt and show me she understood. I'm just always waiting for her to get mad at me or drop me or get really righteous with me. That's mostly my stuff.

But no, she has never really said anything so critical before like that, or to indicate she thought badly of me. I was really really shocked, but felt like... oh, yeah, I knew that would happen.

My therapist had a patient he worked with intensively. I know about it because he wrote about it and she gave her consent. Anyway she would launch into him, yelling and taking out all her rage out at him. He would just take it. His response was to sound proof his office so others weren't disturbed by it.

I'm sure he was tempted at times to react to that kind of behavior, but it doesn't sound like he ever gave in to his own feelings nor did he ever give up on her. She had a severe diagnosis and now has almost completely recovered.

Just an example to show a different perspective.

before my session yesterday leah you told me not to jump out of the plane remember? lol Im just saying, I dont want you to blame yourself because no matter how much of a handful you are or how good to you she has been to you in the past, this comment was hurtful and unproffessional and has hindered the therapeutic process, and and should not have been said, because its a set back, leaving you with insecurities, and feeling miserable, you are a human being seeking help and vulnerable, she is a position of the so called power here. hang in there ok. Even though yesterdays session went well for me, I still have doubts and insecurities, that was just a temporary bandaid for me and she knows this, she told me she expects me to keep testing her and that she is ok with it.

Thanks. Now I'm crying again. I didn't mean to be so harsh with her. I was desperate for her to help me and see me, but I couldn't get it across. I couldn't feel like she was. "Wait, go easy" I wanted, but... we weren't on the same flightpath at all. Going in two different directions, and only one plane.

I think she thinks I'm expecting the impossible, I mostly think I'm expecting something reasonable, to be more constructive with tools, but... she is reluctant or something, and when she does offer, it doesn't seem to fit, or we gets off track, it's just a mess!

I think the airplane analogy is especially good in this case because you were talking about your daughter's scary tantrums. So put those tantrums on the plane too, and yes they become the number one priority - not you. I think that's all the t was trying to point out. She's not "tired of you" - she's tired of you coming first when she feels your daughter should? The oxygen masks aren't coming down in her opinion, but they are in yours?

No, I was trying to put my daughter first, raising that topic when I was already struggling to even make my appt., but my therapist told me "the" only solution was to express all my pent up rage and it would cure my daughter's anger issue. My therapist was missing some nuance in what I was telling her and missing that I wanted some concrete framework, as in, ok, I understand what you are saying, what steps can I take right now, because I am not sure of the bigger picture, i.e. "all" my anger and venting it all now, etc. I've already been working hard in therapy, doing a great deal to improve my relationship with my daughter and controlling and dealing with my angry outbursts, which have improved 90% in the last 9 months along with doing all kinds of other things for her.

I needed support to go from what she said, to what I could manage in that day, and she had nothing for me, except that big comment, and I wasn't in a place to take that and work with it. My therapist will help me and my daughter more by partnering with us than saying what she did with no context, no plan, no nothing, not to mention ignoring the larger context and rushing to a conclusion before she had even heard the entire incident.

She was confrontational at the wrong moment and escalated instead of brainstormed, when I was in a really rough spot.

And I hear you saying that you don't think she's tired of me, but I have her saying, in writing, "I am tired of YOU YOU YOU"

I'll never argue with her if she tells me to focus on my daughter, it's the reason I'm in therapy. I need tools though- if I could fix it on my own, I would have. Having her tell me to let it all out is simplistic, unhelpful in the moment, non-directional, arbitrary.

It sounds like you are clear about what you want from her and how you are not getting those things so that could be something to go over and clarify with her.

Now that I know more details about what happened, I'm going to risk offering an interpretation. It's just a hunch so don't take it on if it doesn't fit.

There is a mechanism called "projective identification" and it happens in therapy all the time. Basically what it boils down to is that you unconsciously try to make the other person feel what you can't express by projecting it onto them so they actually feel it. Then they act as if they were you instead of themselves.

Therapists who spend some of their attention on their internal reactions can actually use this type of thing to really get how the patient feels. In other words, her outburst may have been a product of feeling your internal state and not recognizing that it was coming from you. She still shouldn't have done it, but now I can see a different way that she was reacting.

Oh yes, I can see some of that, there was definitely some projection at least bouncing around. It was absolutely a messy session. I do keep hoping she will figure out where I am emotionally: I tell it to her very directly too, repeatedly, but we're still having a disconnect. Messy.

I don't think clients can be too controlling, too demanding. There are ways to deal with that. It was her job to set her limits in a gentle way. I don't think she was trying to tell you, because she didn't really give you any information. It looks like she was triggered, and that is about her, not you. I wonder if she was trying to put up a protective barrier so she didn't have to deal with things - but that was her job.

Therapists are human, so yes, they make mistakes...

I would think that one of the benefits of online therapy is that the therapist can have an extra moment to respond to something, since there is no face to face contact? In this case, I think I feel a little frustrated that she wasn't a bit more measured in her approach. Or are you face-to-face skyping? In which case, it might be a bit different.

I hear your frustration and anger and emotion, Leah. I do wonder why you're taking so much of this on yourself? Even in a "normal" relationship, there are 2 people in every miscommunication. What is the story you are telling yourself about what happened and why?

I have complained to my T before about what he did. Been critical. Been in physical pain from what he said (total misunderstanding). His response every time is to listen and explore what happened. Sometimes he recognizes that he missed the boat. Sometimes he recognizes his own issue and owns it (without much detail, which is good), and sometimes he explains things and I realize something I missed. There are other ways besides judging and shaming a client to deal with angry & frustrating feelings from clients.

We were in chat mode, so no facial contact, yes, it usually helps in having that extra second to watch words, but... not always.

The story I'm telling myself is, I'm in a hard place right now. I am emotionally under the weather, and T says she understands and will be gentle. I get a panic attack showing up for therapy and decide to take it easy a bit, we have a good chat, then I work up to telling her I'm worried about my daughter's fits and am working hard with my daughter to help her, but it's hard.

So I'm asking her for help and she jumps in fast, before I can even explain it, and says my daughter has my rage and I have to express my rage to fix my daughter's temper.

I think about that and that it is a tall order, and given where I am emotionally, don't even know where to go from there.

I get upset with her for not being more constructive, more... helping me with a plan, more exploratory, more concrete, like, ok, please help me in the here and now- what do I do with what you've said. And I get upset at her taking one incident I wanted to focus on and magnifying the issue to a point where I can not hold it all, because I'm overhwelmed, and need some help grounding and being safe enough to process this and take some concrete step and just deal.

And after a while of flailing around, trying to tell her I need concrete guidance and help to deal w/the fear and panic from the last few days still, and how I feel, she said that, and had to go.

My story is.... I want help and she wants me to have a revalation, like Dorothy: she wants me to click my heels three times to get home, but I haven't walked the yellow brick road yet- I'm not sure how.

I think we all agree that it was out of line and certainly not anyway to deal with the situation. But what happened seems to be an outburst, something out of control. Therefore, not typical, at least I hope so. These lapses do happen in moments of intensity. The issue is how are they repaired, how are they dealt with, how can the relationship go on from such a breakdown of communication and emotional reactivity.

If this happened to me, I would dive right into it. I would feel skeptical and not like trusting until I really heard a sincere apology and a forthcomingness about what happened because I would really need to know that it would not happen again.

very insightful hankster, this plane thing is cool huh? I think Im liking it more and more. I also made a flight plan for my t, as well because she has a treatment plan for me, so I made a flight plan for her or us meaning what I expect, where to fly and where I am capable of flying at the time.

I think you are right. I may be wrong, but it does seem like projection and or countertransference maybe?

I think I get what happened now. It's like my mother telling me I'm cold and heartless, and I'm like, and who did I learn that from?? My mother is the last person who has the right to complain.

I get the impression that you think there are things to do that will change things, like stopdog wanting to know how therapy "works". Or you want to know the computer program for it like I did. Very left-brained, very practical. Only problem is, as they say, it's the relationship that heals - more right-brainy, feely-touchy. Not our bailiwick at all. A whole different paradigm. That's how it was for me. From hard to soft.

Leah, I didnt realize you were only in chat mode, I thought you saw your t online as well. This also must be difficult on you, when you are in this type of emotional distress, having to type and feeling all these strong emotions, must not be easy,(not being judgemental towards your choice of therapy) I support whatever therapy works for you.As for me I just know I could not do it because when I am upset I cant process stuff clearly and be able to type at the same time. I hope you and your t come to terms with this, I want you to be successful in your therapeutic journey.

We have been quite rightly focusing here on the horrible, unprofessional "tired of you" remark, but this quoted passage strikes me as rushed, provocative, heavy-handed, and unskillful. How frequently is she like that for you?

After reading onward, I hadn't realized this is an online T AND you've had issues with her in the past.

Asiablue is wise to think this lady's practice may be shoddy. It raises red flags for me too!

While it may be true that there are other issues here, it seems wrong to emphasize them at this time. It's overwhelming enough, I think.